ultralight for spam-can pilot

I've been flying a 172 for a long time and a Stinson before that, so at least I have tailwheel time. I've been thinking about a 103-legal UL for a long time, something to fly local when the winds are low. I like the mini-max for the conventional/tractor setup and the fact that so many are flying. I'm worried about the handling being so different than what I'm used to especially with sudden loss of power. Are there other models I should be looking at? I know an UL will not handle like a cessna, good thing, but I know some are less "conventional" than others. I'd also like to stay with fairly common models for parts/support. May elect to build but will probably buy a completed aircraft. And would consider registered/LSA model but trying to stay low-cost.

Bob

As a former UL pilot myself, I'll ask you the same first question one of my friends asks someone when they call him about getting started in ultralights: "How much do you weigh?" A lot of folks in modern day America are ill-suited to fly ultralights simply because of their own mass. That may be the biggest thing (no pun intended) that makes an LSA a better option.

(My opinion here) the biggest handling difference will be in the flare for landing, the typical UL is high drag with LOTS of parasitic drag so the flare must be made spot on or you must carry some power to let the craft settle, if you don't it will drop in and the construction being light will bend /break ect.

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Originally Posted by steveinindy

As a former UL pilot myself, I'll ask you the same first question one of my friends asks someone when they call him about getting started in ultralights: "How much do you weigh?" A lot of folks in modern day America are ill-suited to fly ultralights simply because of their own mass. That may be the biggest thing (no pun intended) that makes an LSA a better option.

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Steve:
What is a "good/no more than" weight for a U/L pilot? Is 140 to 190ish an ok/average weight?

Getting pretty personal now aren't we?
200# on a diet and hoping for 180 by 12/1
The UL might be my incentive/reward if I can stay below 180 for 24 months.

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Originally Posted by steveinindy

As a former UL pilot myself, I'll ask you the same first question one of my friends asks someone when they call him about getting started in ultralights: "How much do you weigh?" A lot of folks in modern day America are ill-suited to fly ultralights simply because of their own mass. That may be the biggest thing (no pun intended) that makes an LSA a better option.

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Originally Posted by malexander

Steve:
What is a "good/no more than" weight for a U/L pilot? Is 140 to 190ish an ok/average weight?

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I believe the point at which my friend strongly starts pushing someone towards an LSA is about 180 or 190 lbs. My weight started creeping up from the 155 lbs range to which it dropped after I left the military (from a peak of 188 lbs at which I personally grounded myself from ultralights despite being in the best shape of my life) and that's one reason I started looking to get into bigger planes (in case I couldn't arrest my weight gain).

Your mileage or opinions might vary but remember that you always want to have a little (10-15 lbs) of "wiggle room" when it comes to the MTOW. What's that old joke? "Just because you can doesn't mean you should nor does it mean you have a divine mandate".

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Originally Posted by steveinindy

I believe the point at which my friend strongly starts pushing someone towards an LSA is about 180 or 190 lbs. My weight started creeping up from the 155 lbs range to which it dropped after I left the military (from a peak of 188 lbs at which I personally grounded myself from ultralights despite being in the best shape of my life) and that's one reason I started looking to get into bigger planes (in case I couldn't arrest my weight gain).

Your mileage or opinions might vary but remember that you always want to have a little (10-15 lbs) of "wiggle room" when it comes to the MTOW. What's that old joke? "Just because you can doesn't mean you should nor does it mean you have a divine mandate".

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I was just curious. I hover in the 165-170. I'd like to build something small, light, and single seat some day just to play with. At the moment, I'm getting ready to build a Rans S19.

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I'm getting ready to build a Rans S19.

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I've never flown in one, but I've heard good things about them. Fly safe. :)

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Originally Posted by steveinindy

I've never flown in one, but I've heard good things about them. Fly safe. :)

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Thanks Steve.
I've done quite a bit of research on the S19, plus I know some guys who are building them. I'm satisfied/convinced it's a great airplane. Alos, it's kitted in Hays, Ks. just "up the road" from OKC.

I need to jump in here to champion the MiniMax. A great little airplane and very much fun to fly. I owned one for years and only sold it because I wanted a two seater so I could share the fun. I weigh 200+ and never had any problems getting the 27 horse MiniMax off the ground in 300 feet or less, nor did I ever have any problems in getting at least two hours flight time out of the 5 gallon tank of mogas. (Had to switch to 100LL when unpoluted gas became unavailable here) I can't recommend the MiniMax enough to someone who wants to tool around by themselves. As far as handling - if you can handle a taildragger, the MiniMax will not be much of a challange - the only thing you need to remember is "stick full back when on the ground". Full back pressure while taxiing and on roll out is required or she will swap ends on you. She lands much like a Champ (but in much shorter distance). Love the MiniMax!! If built to specs, it is a ruged little airplane. I had a friend stall my MiniMax into the ground from about 30 feet in the air and --- no damage. After he recovered his nerves, we cranked it up and he took off again with no problems. Again - love the MiniMax - wish I had it back....

Bob,
I agree with the post about the Mini Max. If you have not found it already google ETLB and follow the link. East Tennessee Lonesome Buzzards is a blog dedicated to the Max and you can find any answer you seek there. The company that owned the rights to the Max (JDT) has ceased operations but is to soon be resurrected as TeamMiniMaxUSA. There web site is up but not operational yet. The designs by Roger Mann can handle the weigh too.

Gary

If you are willing to build an ultralight with traditional building techniques then you might want to check out the Legal Eagle XL. It is designed for 575lb gross so that leaves well over 300lbs for fuel and pilot. Here is my Legal Eagle XL site:

http://eaglexl-58.com

Attachment 2076
A real attraction of the Eagle is the four-stroke 1/2VW engine. I have ~250hrs Rotax two-stroke time but my interest has waned in flying anything other than a four-stroke.

Here are some videos from my Eagle:

http://www.youtube.com/user/EagleXL58?feature=mhee

Enjoy tire kicking! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan

If you are willing to build an ultralight with traditional building techniques then you might want to check out the Legal Eagle XL. It is designed for 575lb gross so that leaves well over 300lbs for fuel and pilot. Here is my Legal Eagle XL site:

http://eaglexl-58.com

Attachment 2076
A real attraction of the Eagle is the four-stroke 1/2VW engine. I have ~250hrs Rotax two-stroke time but my interest has waned in flying anything other than a four-stroke.

Here are some videos from my Eagle:

http://www.youtube.com/user/EagleXL58?feature=mhee

Enjoy tire kicking! :cool:

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Sam:
I've seen pictures of your Legal Eagle on VAF, and to say I'm impressed is an understatement. I REALLY like the LE. When I get finished with the S19, I know I'll build something else. I really do enjoy building. The LE XL (I think it's called) is on my list to check out.:)

Sam, I really need to get over and see your LE. I'm glad you like it. Bob

Sam, LE looks great! One of the best looking I've seen so far.

What's the diff in your kit car and Ron Champion's "LOCOST"? I'm guessing you didn't have to fab and weld the chassis?

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Originally Posted by Bob from Alabama

Sam, I really need to get over and see your LE. I'm glad you like it. Bob

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Bob, let me know when you want to see XL-58 and we'll set up a visit. It's based at DCU....don't know how close you are.

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Originally Posted by martymayes

Sam, LE looks great! One of the best looking I've seen so far.

What's the diff in your kit car and Ron Champion's "LOCOST"? I'm guessing you didn't have to fab and weld the chassis?

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Thanks, Marty!

This is thread creep but I'll try to answer briefly. The Stalker V6 is the car the LOCOST wanted to be when it grew up. ;) Camaro 3.4 V6 with headers and Holley 4-barrel, real car handling, factory-welded chassis, 170 hp in 1450 lbs of car. Later versions of the Stalker are built with the super charged 3800 (275hp) and some are now built with LS6 V8 (400+ hp!!!!). Many autocross and track day competitions have been won with Stalkers, it is a true street-legal track car.

My Stalker V6 project:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/stalkerv6

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Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan

My Stalker V6 project:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/stalkerv6

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I'll take a look when I'm done working through the LE YouTube videos......:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan

Bob, let me know when you want to see XL-58 and we'll set up a visit. It's based at DCU....don't know how close you are.

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Sam, this is Bob Boone. You know me, you took me for my first airplane ride in your cub when I was just thinking about learning to fly!

Bob

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Originally Posted by Bob from Alabama

Sam, this is Bob Boone. You know me, you took me for my first airplane ride in your cub when I was just thinking about learning to fly!

Bob

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Hey, Bob!

I failed to pick up on the Stinson and C172 hint. :)

Let me know when you are going to be at the aerodrome and we'll talk light aircraft. Perspectives may have changed since we had similar conversations in the early '90's.

Sam I like your videos and the XL looks to be a good safe machine. Do you have any experience with the two-seater Double Eagle?

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Originally Posted by Flyfalcons

Sam I like your videos and the XL looks to be a good safe machine. Do you have any experience with the two-seater Double Eagle?

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Ryan, I don't have any personal experience with the DE, all I know about it is via the Eaglers Yahoo group. There have been mixed results with flying Double Eagles, some of the issues have been builder induced (too much weight added for engine used, builder modifications that weren't thought out, etc). It appears to be a straight-forward design but departs from the stark simplicity of the single-seat Eagles. A bigger aircraft will have things that need to be addressed that aren't present in an ultralight.

Sam, what kind of dual, if any, did you get before flying the LE? Or was your cub time sufficient? I'm assuming it handles just a tad different than the RV!

Bob

Cool, I like the simplicity of the LE but if it's going to take money and garage space to become a reality, then being able to take the wife along is going to be a requirement. I'll keep an eye on people's experiences with the Double.

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Originally Posted by Bob from Alabama

Sam, what kind of dual, if any, did you get before flying the LE? Or was your cub time sufficient? I'm assuming it handles just a tad different than the RV!

Bob

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Bob,

I didn't do any dual since I have a few hundred Super Koala, MiniMax and J-3 hours. But after flying the RV-6 for 13 years the Eagle was quite a transition. I had to get accustomed to the extreme lightness of the plane and the handling which is very docile and casual compared to the RV. But overall is has been a pleasant journey and flying the Eagle proficiently will test your airmanship just as much, if not more, than a heavier and faster aircraft.

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Originally Posted by Bob from Alabama

I've been flying a 172 for a long time and a Stinson before that, so at least I have tailwheel time. I've been thinking about a 103-legal UL for a long time, something to fly local when the winds are low. I like the mini-max for the conventional/tractor setup and the fact that so many are flying. I'm worried about the handling being so different than what I'm used to especially with sudden loss of power. Are there other models I should be looking at? I know an UL will not handle like a cessna, good thing, but I know some are less "conventional" than others. I'd also like to stay with fairly common models for parts/support. May elect to build but will probably buy a completed aircraft. And would consider registered/LSA model but trying to stay low-cost.

Bob

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Bob your last line says it all. If you are willing to go N-numbered instead of FAR103 then the answer for you is a Challenger. They are economical to buy used, fly more like a conventional airplane and can still get into the little private grass strips used by ultralighters. There are plenty of 2-seaters out there so you can easily get a ride and transition training. You would have to pay to have annual done as with any homebuilt you did not build.