OSH arrivals

[Rick Rademacher]

Rick,you have been breathing too many Jet A fumes. "61 knots, 90 knots"? No real Cub ( that is built by Piper in the 30s or 40s) flys at any knots, anymore than a real Ford Model T goes 50 kilometers an hour.

Bill,

I know that! I tell people that J-3 Cubs will be flying the Fisk approach at 70 M.P.H. Then they tell me that most aircraft should have no problems staying behind an aircraft going 70 knots. NOT the same speed!

[FlyingRon]

All the other mass arrivals prearrange direct long finals for 36 L/R. The rest of the crowd is sent to 9/27 while that's in progress.

[steveinindy]

All the other mass arrivals prearrange direct long finals for 36 L/R. The rest of the crowd is sent to 9/27 while that's in progress.

I see nothing wrong with that and wouldn't mind getting routed that way. It seems like all the high performance stuff that isn't "performing" (or ultra-heavy) gets routed that way anyhow....

[mmcgrew]

I got from the thread what I wanted - Great discussion and sound advise. Group arrival and early am arrival (good ideas). I can not remember if the NOTAM noted priority for departing aircraft. I will be sure and remember that little bit of info. I do know that here are 100 times more of the "good guys" at OSH then there are of the "MORONS". A second pilot in the right seat is also good advise. This year - keep an eye out for a Piper Turbo Arrow.

Michael

[steveinindy]

A second pilot in the right seat is also good advice

I always fly with a second pilot. I've never understood a desire to fly alone. It gets boring that way.

[Fred Stadler]

I can not remember if the NOTAM noted priority for departing aircraft.

For the past several years the AirVenture NOTAM has had the following sentence on page one in the section which lists the times when the airport is closed for the airshow: "Arrivals at Wittman Regional Airport are normally resumed 30 minutes after each afternoon airshow." What this means is that on the days when the airshow ends at 6:30 the airport is first opened to departures only. That allows many more aircraft to depart safely than would be possible if departures were interspersed with arrivals. No one can accurately predict how many departures there will be on any given day, so when tower personnel observe diminishing departure queues, they then allow aircraft to begin arriving from the Ripon-Fisk VFR arrival. That means on a "normal" day, arrivals might begin at 7 PM, but many days are not "normal." Sometimes the airshow ends early and the whole process happens sooner, but any number of situations can delay the opening to arrivals. Anyone planning to arrive in the evening after the airshow should be prepared for the possibility of extended airborne holding. Early morning arrivals are generally much less dramatic.

[Jim Hann]

All the other mass arrivals prearrange direct long finals for 36 L/R. The rest of the crowd is sent to 9/27 while that's in progress.

Ron, reread what Rick is saying.

If there is no slow plane arrival procedure this year, please be on the lookout for many, many J-3 Cubs flying at 61 knots using the standard Fisk approach. As the mass arrival for Cubs is limited to 75 aircraft and as it takes place at 5 P.M. on Monday, most of the Cubs will be arriving in groups of two or more on Saturday or Sunday from Hartford. We can only approach 90 knots in a power dive with the wings about to depart the aircraft.

His concern is the larger than normal amount of Cubs that will be arriving separate from the mass arrival (mass Slo-Mo arrival?? ) I would be concerned also, 'bout ran over an Ercoupe many years ago on the arrival, I was doing 85 kts and he was doing 90 mph (I'm guessing). The larger problem is there isn't a lot of spare airspace left to add another arrival "lane" for airplanes that cannot maintain 90 knots.

[Rick Rademacher]

Jim,

That is my concern! The closing rate of an aircraft going 90 knots upon one going 61 knots (70 M.P.H.) may be a problem for some. As my J-3Cub has no glass in the back, I can’t see what is approaching from the rear. So, I will have to trust the approaching aircraft to do the correct thing.

We hope to have five to ten times more Cubs at Airventure this year than have ever been on the field in the past.

I believe that the EAA and FAA will try to resolve this issue in the Oshkosh Notam for 2012. Now, if everyone would just read that document and know how to act, everyone can have a safe flight into Oshkosh.

[Kyle Boatright]

I believe that the EAA and FAA will try to resolve this issue in the Oshkosh Notam for 2012. Now, if everyone would just read that document and know how to act, everyone can have a safe flight into Oshkosh. [/SIZE]

I hope you're right. The possibility of coming up behind a Cub, Aeronca Champ, or some other slow mover has always spooked me at SnF or Osh. I can make good decsions on what to do in that instance. My concern is more about what is happening behind me with a stack-up of Comanche's, Bo's, Glasairs, and other aircraft (and pilots) that won't be safe flying a loaded-for-the-show airplane at those speeds.

[FlyingRon]

I've run up on slow movers (in the this case it was some 182 who seemed unclear on the concept and was bopping along at 70). Simple solution if you can't slow down or S-turn behind him, take a left turn and go back to Ripon. Fortunately for me after I bailed I could see there was nobody behind me so I just kind of made a nice 360 and reentered. I still caught up with the clown before I got to 36.

I think the Fisk guys do an OK once you get there, they'll put the segregate the slow mover from the rest of the traffic.

Other than clogging up the Ripon->Fisk transition, it shouldn't be a problem. People need to have their head on a swivel on the Ripon convergence and closure rate isn't a problem...

Ideally, they should have a lower transition altitude for those who can't maintain 90 like they have the high one for those who can't get down to 90.

90 is an uncomfortable speed in the Navion. It's faster than my gear down speed (but they want the gear down too).