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Thread: OSH arrivals

  1. #1
    mmcgrew's Avatar
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    OSH arrivals

    I had promised myself that I would not write this post - but I break promises to me all the time. I have been to OSH many times over the past 30 years of flying. Last year was the first time I made the decision to fly my plane instead of driving or going commercial. I had always been some what nervous of all the air activity that occurs during OSH (arrival and departure). Before the flight, I downloaded the NOTAM and studied it in detail. I made flight notes and checklist of the important items. I arrived on a clear afternoon, flew over Rippon and turned toward Fisk along the rail road tracks. A few miles up the tracks my apprehension hit me full face. Planes appeared off of my left wing, my right wing, on my nose (towards me). under me and over me. The controllers were going wild trying to sort things out. When I received my clearance (acknowledged with a wing rock) another plane cut in and took my landing slot. Shot past Fisk and went for the hold. While in the hold, I waited my turn only to see numerous inbound planes take the lead and make their approach in front of me. I had made up my mind to leave the area and land at one of the alternates but I received clearance for 36L, shot out of the hold, did a left base along the lake and put it on the dot. On the ground I sat in the plane refelected on the past 45 minutes. What should have been a simple procedure (I am Inst. rated) turned into a nightmare for ONE very simple reason. MORON pilots that think the rules and procedures are meant for others. I know other pilots have experienced this same thing and some of you will no doubt post your hair raising experience. But it would be educational to hear from one of the MORONS as to why they chose to disregard procedures, put themself at risk and put others in the air at risk. I would also like to have some input (from the good guys) as to how we can stop this dangerous activity.
    Thanks
    Michael

  2. #2
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    This reminds me again why I have little interest in arriving via Fisk.

    I would also like to have some input (from the good guys) as to how we can stop this dangerous activity
    Fly something fast enough to qualify for the turbine/warbird arrival?
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  3. #3

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    I have flown in via the standard airplane Fisk arrival some years ago as well as the last two years, and didn't have much problem. I sure never saw any airplanes coming directly toward me. Perhaps the difference was that I wasn't preloaded for it to be a bad experience, I was alert but not fearful. Or maybe we came at a less busy time. I have never had to hold, that might get pretty crowded. The only problem I have is that in my Be 36 TC, it is hard to slow down and maintain 100 mph, if I throttle back that much the gear waring horn comes on at 17 inches manifold pressure, so we just lowered the gear and flew that way despite being a long way out.

    What day and time did you arrive? What kind of plane?

    And it is a day vfr, vmc procedure, an instrument rating has nothing to do with it, and in fact one needs to be looking outside, not at instruments, other than to set up the initial altitude and speed.
    And despite your frustration, you landed safely.
    And you say you came from Fisk, which is on the SW then made a" left base entry" to the north runway, 36L, "along the lake". I don't see how you did that, the lake is on the east side of the airport, and you would not be over that if you came from the west and made a left base entry.

    By the way, warbird/turbine airplanes have their own arrival, but when you get to the runway you still may have to blend in with traffic coming from Fisk to land.

    However you come, keep coming and enjoy the convention. Some of us morons like to have fun when there.
    Maybe next year bring a friend with you who has done it before, and/or come at a less busy time.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 03-25-2012 at 07:54 AM.

  4. #4

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    Wow, Michael, the account of your only flight to AirVenture is certainly colorful, dramatic, and disturbing. My own experiences have been quite different. Last summer I flew the Fisk VFR arrival to OSH twice, intentionally picking what I hoped would be busy times in order to capture an instructional video. Those flights, as well as others in prior years, were active, but nothing like what you describe.

    Let me suggest that you pass along your experiences directly to FAA using their AirVenture feedback form at https://secure.eaa.org/airventure/atc_feedback.html . You will want to be specific as to the time you arrived and your assigned routing. Positive suggestions for procedure improvement are generally more useful than complaints about other pilots.

    And I do hope that you decide to fly to AirVenture again this summer, possibly selecting a quieter time of day, such as in the morning hours when arrival traffic is generally lighter.

    -Fred Stadler, AirVenture NOTAM volunteer chairman

  5. #5

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    I have been fortunate to arrive at OSH via almost all of the published procesures - the standard arrival over FISK, the warbird arrival, and the NORDO (no radio) procedure. I will suggest that for a first timer, picking your time is really important. My first arrival was NORDO. I intentionally spent the night at Fon du Lac and launched at 7AM since that is when OSH opens and my guess was that I would beat the rush. My arrival was a non-event as there was only one other airplane visible in the pattern. Fast forward a few years and I had the experience of flying an afternoon Warbird arrival in the middle of a formation of 20 and a Beech Baron decided to cut in behind me uninvited. Fortunately my tail end charlie guy called a warning on the radio and I/we were able work around the idiot.

    I will agree that based on my arrivals under all sorts of conditions, it is uncommon for things to get out of hand. The ATC guys do a GREAT job. The flip side is that if you are not used to seeing other airplanes in relatively close proximity, it looks like a big fur ball. Calmness is a great asset. If you have other seats in the airplane, bringing friends to be extra eyes is good in many dimensions. And you can always go around, find your way back to Ripon, and try again.

    Go back next year and it should be much easier.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS

  6. #6
    mmcgrew's Avatar
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    It was a left base to 36. The lake was off my left wing prior to turning base. I arrived in an Arrow. I had stoped for fuel and waited out the afternoon air show closing and planned my arrival to arrive when the field was open. What I did not know was that after the airshow - priority was given to departing traffic while in bound traffic was placed in a hold. There were probably 30 planes holding to get in. In fact it was so congested - approach was telling traffic at Ripppon to not come up to Fisk but go to alternate airports. Traffic was actually doing a 180 and flying back down the tracks to Rippon (or to leave the area)

    Mike

  7. #7
    mmcgrew's Avatar
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    Bill Greenwood - I just checked the chart. On a left base to 36. A portion of the lake is off of your left wing. A portion is off of your nose and when you turn on final - you do skirt the lake with it off your right wing.

    Mike

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmcgrew View Post
    It was a left base to 36. The lake was off my left wing prior to turning base. I arrived in an Arrow. I had stoped for fuel and waited out the afternoon air show closing and planned my arrival to arrive when the field was open. What I did not know was that after the airshow - priority was given to departing traffic while in bound traffic was placed in a hold. There were probably 30 planes holding to get in. In fact it was so congested - approach was telling traffic at Ripppon to not come up to Fisk but go to alternate airports. Traffic was actually doing a 180 and flying back down the tracks to Rippon (or to leave the area)

    Mike
    What day was this? I arrived Tuesday evening after the show, did one lap around the lake waiting on something, and had a fairly straightforward arrival. I didn't pick up on the chaos you reported, but there is no question that stacked up traffic during a hold does make things more intense. In general, I won't accept the inbound hold going to Osh or SnF, just because it does get intense. Instead, I'll depart the area and return later. Tuesday evening wasn't particularly busy, so I went against my general rule.

    That said, I believe the NOTAM states they attempt to release the bulk of the outbound traffic before opening the field to arrivals in the evening.

  9. #9

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    Mike, it doesn't really matter much, but if by "the lake" you mean Lake Winnebago, and you are coming from the west on left base from the Fiske area, and about to turn left to 36 L, which is the main north runway, then you are not over or along the lake shore. You would be coming over hwy 41,and down at the south end of field past the small LSA runway. Lake Winnebago is ahead of you to the east of the airport. You would not or should not be over (along) the lake shore as that is the arrival path for the warbirds up high and the seaplanes down low going into the seaplane base. I don't know of a lake that would be off your left wing on base, unless you mean the Fox river which is way up to the north of rny 9-27.
    There is a small lake that is in the holding pattern, Rush. It's not really in the traffic pattern to 36 anyway, quite a ways west.

    Obviously the big problem and hard luck that you had was to arrive at the most crowded time when the departures were leaving.
    One day that you or others may have been waiting to land, I and perhaps a hundred others were taxiing and idling on the ground to take off on 9 or 27. Many of us waited for an hour, except for the Citations and TBMs which were sent around all the other airplanes to the front of the line for takeoff. All that really matters is that we are on the ground safely, the rest is just mundane.
    Just come earlier in the day next time. I am not sure if they do, but the notam should make it clear that inbound planes may be delayed at that time.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 03-26-2012 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Mike, it doesn't really matter much, but if by "the lake" you mean Lake Winnebago, ... <snip>.
    Bill, there is a lake SW of OSH which is used in the holding procedure for inbounds on the Ripon/Fisk arrival. I believe this is the lake he was referencing.

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