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Thread: Repairman Inspection

  1. #1

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    Repairman Inspection

    ELSA regs allow one to take a 16 hour course and become eligible for a Repairman Inspection Rating, and that allows you to perform the annual condition inspection on any Experimental Light Sport Airplane you own. Such a course is outlined here:

    http://www.sportair.com/workshops/1R...-Airplane.html

    It would be exceptionally wonderful to be able to do something similar for EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) aircraft, to include EAB aircraft that you did not build yourself. How would we start pursuing something like this? Is EAA willing to initiate this?

    Thanks,

    -Dj


  2. #2

    Shocked

    They. Are all about those certified aircraft. It's just $$$.

  3. #3
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deej View Post
    ELSA regs allow one to take a 16 hour course and become eligible for a Repairman Inspection Rating, and that allows you to perform the annual condition inspection on any Experimental Light Sport Airplane you own. [snip]

    It would be exceptionally wonderful to be able to do something similar for EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) aircraft, to include EAB aircraft that you did not build yourself. How would we start pursuing something like this? Is EAA willing to initiate this?
    I agree with you; I'd love to get a repairman certificate for my Fly Baby. Then I won't have to argue with Tony any more. :-)

    It's probably a bit down the queue as far as EAA's priorities. Right now, I think their emphasis is on Third Class medical reform and on the Congressional directives for the FAA to relax some of the controls on maintenance and modification of production-type aircraft. Obviously, more bang-for-the-buck issues than the relatively small number of homebuilt owners that might be affected by allowing their use of the ELSA rules.

    Want to see it, though.

    Ron Wanttaja

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    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, I took a look at the current FAA certification database. Assuming I've interpreted it properly, there are 10,315 people with the Light Sport - Inspector Repairman certificates (the one that takes a 16-hour course), and 2,410 with Light Sport-Maintenance tickets.

    Ron Wanttaja

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    I agree with you; I'd love to get a repairman certificate for my Fly Baby. Then I won't have to argue with Tony any more. :-)

    It's probably a bit down the queue as far as EAA's priorities. Right now, I think their emphasis is on Third Class medical reform and on the Congressional directives for the FAA to relax some of the controls on maintenance and modification of production-type aircraft. Obviously, more bang-for-the-buck issues than the relatively small number of homebuilt owners that might be affected by allowing their use of the ELSA rules.

    Want to see it, though.

    Ron Wanttaja
    You argue, I discuss. Some believe every discussion is an argument, I had a wife who believed this. I divorced her, I don't need that drama in my life.

    Just because you hold this repairman certificate does not give the the privilege to do a condition inspection on any airframe. Only the one you hold the repairman's certificate for. The way I understand this certificate anyway.

    Again not arguing just discussing. But you call it what you want.

    Tony

  6. #6
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1600vw View Post
    Just because you hold this repairman certificate does not give the the privilege to do a condition inspection on any airframe. Only the one you hold the repairman's certificate for. The way I understand this certificate anyway.
    No, the question was about the Light Sport-Inspection repairman certificate. That one lets you do the condition inspection on any Experimental Light Sport that you own. The original poster would like to see a similar policy for Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft.

    Ron Wanttaja

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    No, the question was about the Light Sport-Inspection repairman certificate. That one lets you do the condition inspection on any Experimental Light Sport that you own. The original poster would like to see a similar policy for Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft.

    Ron Wanttaja
    Ron I do not believe this is correct. Just because you own said airplane does not mean you can do the condition inspection using a repairman's certificate. Two men build an airplane. Both names are on the registration. Only one can get a repairman's certificate for that airframe or airplane. If one owner dies the other owner can not get another repairman's certificate for that airframe. Each airframe or airplane gets one repairman's certificate issued to one person.

    This is the way it was explained to me. Now if this is not correct I need to contact the dude at the FAA who told me this.

    A father and son build an airplane. The father has the repairman's certificate issued to him. He then dies from who knows what. The son must now hire an A&P to do the condition inspections for he can not get another repairman's certificate for that airframe or airplane. This is how it was explained to me. Make sure the younger builder gets the repairman's certificate and hope he does not expire early from some unknown reason.

    Tony
    Last edited by 1600vw; 05-27-2015 at 05:45 AM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1600vw View Post
    Ron I do not believe this is correct. Just because you own said airplane does not mean you can do the condition inspection using a repairman's certificate. Two men build an airplane. Both names are on the registration. Only one can get a repairman's certificate for that airframe or airplane. If one owner dies the other owner can not get another repairman's certificate for that airframe. Each airframe or airplane gets one repairman's certificate issued to one person.

    This is the way it was explained to me. Now if this is not correct I need to contact the dude at the FAA who told me this.

    A father and son build an airplane. The father has the repairman's certificate issued to him. He then dies from who knows what. The son must now hire an A&P to do the condition inspections for he can not get another repairman's certificate for that airframe or airplane. This is how it was explained to me. Make sure the younger builder gets the repairman's certificate and hope he does not expire early from some unknown reason.

    Tony
    For E/AB aircraft you're correct. For ELSA aircraft you're not. Go back and look at the first post - it has a description of the situation for ELSA aircraft, with a link to the course that will allow the OWNER (not builder) of an ELSA aircraft to legally do his/her own CI.

    The OP would like the same capability for E/AB aircraft, which as you state, is NOT currently the case.

    I'm on the fence here - I think there are many E/AB aircraft for which even a 40 - 60 hour course might not be enough to allow the owner to be knowledgeable enough to perform his/her own CI's. Gotta think on this a bit more (not that it's likely to happen in the foreseeable future, anyway).

  9. #9

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    This is the age of the internet and computerized testing. There is no reason why we could not take a series of knowledge tests to qualify for a repairman certificate. After all, we pay to take a computer based knowledge test so there is a financial incentive to read part 43 and not blow multiple test attempts. So passing some subject matter tests and an 8 hour course should get the job done. But since we are talking about the FAA, this advance into the 21st century is unlikely at this time.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS

  10. #10
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1600vw View Post
    Ron I do not believe this is correct. Just because you own said airplane does not mean you can do the condition inspection using a repairman's certificate. Two men build an airplane. Both names are on the registration. Only one can get a repairman's certificate for that airframe or airplane. If one owner dies the other owner can not get another repairman's certificate for that airframe. Each airframe or airplane gets one repairman's certificate issued to one person.
    The term "Repairman Certificate" has a broader definition than that used in homebuilding. Per 14CFR 65.103, "A certificated repairman may perform or supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance, or alteration of aircraft or aircraft components appropriate to the job for which the repairman was employed and certificated, but only in connection with duties for the certificate holder by whom the repairman was employed and recommended. "

    For the non-homebuilding world, a Repairman Certificate is typically issued to an employee of an FAA-certified Repair Station or an Air Carrier to permit him or her some authority in a fairly narrow area. The employer must vouch that the person has been appropriately trained and is qualified for the specific task they are to do. An A&P can work on everything, a Repairman Certificate holder, in comparison, might be authorized only to remove, balance, and replace control surfaces.

    The Repairman Certificate for Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft is covered in 14CFR 65.104.

    (a) To be eligible for a repairman certificate (experimental aircraft builder), an individual must—

    (1) Be at least 18 years of age;

    (2) Be the primary builder of the aircraft to which the privileges of the certificate are applicable;

    This is different from the Repairman Certificates issued for Light Sport Aircraft, which are defined in 14CFR 65.107:

    (b) The holder of a repairman certificate (light-sport aircraft) with an inspection rating may perform the annual condition inspection on a light-sport aircraft:

    (1) That is owned by the holder;

    (2) That has been issued an experimental certificate for operating a light-sport aircraft under §21.191(i) of this chapter; and

    (3) That is in the same class of light-sport-aircraft for which the holder has completed the training specified in paragraph (a)(2)(ii) of this section.

    So if you take the appropriate course (16 hours long), you can perform the condition inspection of any ELSA that you own.

    Ron Wanttaja

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