2016 AirVenture NOTAM

[MEdwards]

Both of you guys have valid points. I use and like ADS-B. However, everybody's different, and when I started using it, until I figured out how far apart those displayed targets really were, I spent too much time worrying about them.

With the present rule those with In will be displaying only a few aircraft, those with transponders on for whatever reason. (I saw 4-5 while on the Fisk arrival last year.) I think some In users (shouldn't but) will fixate on those few targets they see on their displays and consequently spend less time scanning for other traffic.

[TedK]

Both of you guys have valid points. I use and like ADS-B. However, everybody's different, and when I started using it, until I figured out how far apart those displayed targets really were, I spent too much time worrying about them.With the present rule those with In will be displaying only a few aircraft, those with transponders on for whatever reason. (I saw 4-5 while on the Fisk arrival last year.) I think some In users (shouldn't but) will fixate on those few targets they see on their displays and consequently spend less time scanning for other traffic.

They might but they shouldn't. It it simply a cuing tool. If it is on the fish finder and you haven't spotted it, you ought to give that area a real good look cuz odds are there is a airplane there.And just because nothing is on the FF, don't for a moment believe that there is no airplane there. There are lots of guys who don't squawk, and ADS-B isn't perfect.But I will tell you I am spotting significantly more traffic now that I have ADS-B. I used to fly and think, wow, I've got the sky to myself. My first flight with ADS-B showed me just how much I was missing. Don't fly with ADS-B until you are ready to buy one...you'll see just how few nearby airplane's you really saw.Ted

[Jeff Point]

They might but they shouldn't.

It matters little what should be and matters much what will be. AARP pilot? Heck, I think AARP lets you in at 40 now. 😀

[rleffler]

I would agree in a single pilot situation, adsb would be too tempting to look at during the arrival process.However, there are PICs that do strictly look out the window exclusively during arrival, and let other passengers deal with avionics.I also agree that common sense isn't all that common.

[TedK]

The 2016 Airventure NOTAM was just revised and posted, alas without any revision number. It now permits ADS-B aircraft to use their transponders when outside the OSH class D in order to get the Traffic In.

[MEdwards]

The 2016 Airventure NOTAM was just revised and posted, alas without any revision number. It now permits ADS-B aircraft to use their transponders when outside the OSH class D in order to get the Traffic In.

Ted, I think you made your mark on Oshkosh 2016. Thank you.
Mike E

[obmaha]

Yes, Ted, I was expecting that change this year, too. Not there, huh? I'd like to see the reason for that rule, with some quantitative analysis, not just "too many, it'd saturate their radar." My guess is it's to make IFRs more readily visible on the radar screen, since their transponders have to be left on.

I would recommend visiting MKE approach or green bay approach during airventure before saying controllers want your transponders off just because. As a pilot, a controller, and someone who has flown into OSH I can see both sides of the scope and just tell you that unless you have been to one of the local approach controls that is affected by OSH you can not fathom the work load that increases on controllers and what they do to go out of their way to help pilots during that week.

I could go into more detail but just know the controller side plans and trains for months each year to gear up for Oshkosh and there is almost always a method behind the madness to what we do.

Side note I have to say I love chatting with pilots at OSH and love dealing with G.A. behind the scope. By far the nicest and funniest pilots to talk to.

[MEdwards]

I'm sorry you took my comment as criticism. Nothing I said was in any way critical of the regional controllers whose workload obviously increases during Airventure. As an engineer I deal in numbers and qualitative rationale for decisions, and I don't think it's unreasonable to express an interest in how decisions such as "set transponder to Standby within 30 miles of OSH" are made. Actually, now that the NOTAM has been changed, it doesn't affect me any more because I will have ADS-B Out by the end of next week, so I will leave my transponder on.

I'd love to visit an approach control site. I did so in Albuquerque once and it was fascinating and enlightening. For example, I learned that Southwest Airlines, SWA, stands for Seldom Wants the Active. I'd be surprised if such visits are possible up there during Airventure!

Thanks.

Mike E

[obmaha]

I'm sorry you took my comment as criticism. Nothing I said was in any way critical of the regional controllers whose workload obviously increases during Airventure. As an engineer I deal in numbers and qualitative rationale for decisions, and I don't think it's unreasonable to express an interest in how decisions such as "set transponder to Standby within 30 miles of OSH" are made. Actually, now that the NOTAM has been changed, it doesn't affect me any more because I will have ADS-B Out by the end of next week, so I will leave my transponder on.

I'd love to visit an approach control site. I did so in Albuquerque once and it was fascinating and enlightening. For example, I learned that Southwest Airlines, SWA, stands for Seldom Wants the Active. I'd be surprised if such visits are possible up there during Airventure!

Thanks.

Mike E

I totally understand the frustration from an engineers standpoint. As controllers we are frustrated too. I am working on equipment and technology that was developed before I was born.

It will be interesting to see how this will effect the controllers and MKE, ZMP, and ZAU with leaving the ads-b transponders on. I think it will be great for the pilots but have a feeling it will be a negative for the controllers. Non stop false confliction alerts, alarms going off, etc but I good thing to test this year.

It might be a little hard to get in to see the an approach control around OSH but you can always drive out to FISK and say hello. If the controllers out there are not too busy they are a fun bunch to walk to. Also donuts will help ;-)

[FlyingRon]

It matters little what should be and matters much what will be. AARP pilot? Heck, I think AARP lets you in at 40 now. 

No, you can apply a few months before your 50th. My wife couldn't understand why she was getting all this stuff from AARP when she was 49. I had to admit I signed her up so I could get a discount on my spouse status (I'm a year younger than her). She was not happy.