What can we do?

[FabricGATOR]

Good morning folks,
Please excuse my ignorance, as it is why I am here today and asking these questions...

Wow. I really don't know much... yet

q1) Can I fly aerobatics in an amateur built experimental?

q1_a) ...lets say in the case of something like a Steen Skybolt with an AEIO-360 that was purchased second, perhaps even third, or fourth hand, from the builder?

AWC:
During a recent annual condition inspection, it was noted that there was no POH, registration, AWC, W&B, in the aircraft when it was presented for inspection. When asked about it the *new owner, presented a clear display pouch that had the registration and an AWC along with a W&B (presumably current w&b)(no POH, no AWC 'limitations')
- Vaguely familiar with this occurrence from a previous S-LSA inspection, I ordered the package of documents from the FAA and found a 'Limitations' page.

q2) Do all AB_ex aircraft AWC have a 'limitations' attachment? [not necessarily an aerobatic airframe, rather any AB-ex aircraft?]
q2_a) and doesn't that attachment need to be included with the AWC, W&B, Registration, and POH in the aircraft during operation?
q2_b) Is is it the DAR that determines if the assembly and 'build' was done to a degree of suitability for this AB-ex aircraft to be "approved" for aerobatic maneuvers?

POH:
As previously noted, while there was a 'checklist' in the aircraft...
q3) what do we need to do about producing a POH or finding the missing one?

Thank you for your anticipated replies and discussion..

**40+ hours after my PPL checkride I was enroute and was all set up (in my mind) to over fly a traffic pattern to enter downwind under Class C airspace that I had just flown over (because I was scared to talk to ATC).... As I set it up in my head, I realized that if I overfly the pattern +500' that I'll be in the Class C airspace.
Panic set in and I aborted my planned arrival and flew away to a nearby airport to 'ask a flight instructor'.
I couldn't believe that I was granted the privilege of a pilots license when I knew so little.
The CFI explained that the PPL was a license to learn.

I still have a lot to learn and I strive to improve my understanding everyday.

[rwanttaja]

Q1: Yes, you can fly aerobatics in an Amateur-Built Experimental aircraft, presuming the aircraft's Operating Limitations don't prohibit it.

When the FAA issues an airworthiness certificate for a homebuilt aircraft, it is always accompanied by a list of required parameters the owner must abide by. These are called the Operating Limitations. The OL for my Fly Baby states, "Except for the maneuvers described blow, this aircraft is prohibited from acrobatic flight.." It goes on to describe what acrobatic flight is (right out of the FARs) and ends with "NONE AUTHORIZED."

Q1A: The Operating Limitations should be passed along with the other aircraft paperwork when the plane is sold. It applies to all subsequent owners. You can contact the FSDO if you want to update your OLs, but you might be opening a can of worms.

During a recent annual condition inspection, it was noted that there was no POH, registration, AWC, W&B, in the aircraft when it was presented for inspection.

There is no requirement for POHs for homebuilts. If it's not in the Operating Limitations, it doesn't apply. Thousands of homebuilts were built before POHs seem to become a desired item. The guiding reference for this is FAA Advisory Circular AC 20-27, "Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft." I've got a copy at:

http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/AC%2020-27.pdf

Rules may be different for LSAs, I'm not sure.

To skip ahead to question #3:

q3) what do we need to do about producing a POH or finding the missing one?

Simple. Ask other owners, or just write one yourself.

Someone in the Fly Baby community asked about a POH years ago, and I threw together a template that could be used to generate one.

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/POH.pdf

I've also made the Word template available....download this, and change what you need.

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/POH.docx

And, taking care of the last roundup:

q2) Do all AB_ex aircraft AWC have a 'limitations' attachment? [not necessarily an aerobatic airframe, rather any AB-ex aircraft?]
q2_a) and doesn't that attachment need to be included with the AWC, W&B, Registration, and POH in the aircraft during operation?
q2_b) Is is it the DAR that determines if the assembly and 'build' was done to a degree of suitability for this AB-ex aircraft to be "approved" for aerobatic maneuvers?

Q2: Yes. If you don't have it, request the records of the aircraft from the FAA. That's how I got mine...it didn't come with them.

https://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/ND/

Q2_a: Yes, it needs to be in the aircraft along with the Airworthiness, Weight and Balance, and Registration (again, no requirement for POH).

Q2_b: Yes, the DAR is the one who decides whether aerobatics is suitable. Generally, there's a requirement for the initial flight test period to include demonstration of the maneuvers the plane will be permitted to perform.

Ron Wanttaja

[rwanttaja]

**40+ hours after my PPL checkride I was enroute and was all set up (in my mind) to over fly a traffic pattern to enter downwind under Class C airspace that I had just flown over (because I was scared to talk to ATC).... As I set it up in my head, I realized that if I overfly the pattern +500' that I'll be in the Class C airspace.
Panic set in and I aborted my planned arrival and flew away to a nearby airport to 'ask a flight instructor'.
I couldn't believe that I was granted the privilege of a pilots license when I knew so little.
The CFI explained that the PPL was a license to learn.

I still have a lot to learn and I strive to improve my understanding everyday.

Ha! 1200 hours and 53 years after I got my Private, and after 45 years of flying from the same location, I ferried my plane to its new hangar 180 miles away. Flew around the local area for the first time, getting gloriously lost and worrying about stumbling into the Class C and Class D airspaces that I had no familiarity with.

We're both in the same boat, Gator, regardless of how many hours/how long we've been flying. Don't feel so bad, and the best of luck! Hals und Beinbruch! (or, hopefully, not...)

Ron Wanttaja