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Thread: Insuring Second Hand E-AB Planes

  1. #1

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    Insuring Second Hand E-AB Planes

    I am a student pilot looking to purchase an E-AB plane second hand as I finish my student certificate. I am considering a few different models, including some that are less common.

    My major concern if I buy a less common aircraft is, what transition requirements may I face from insurers and (especially if I cannot find a CFI with time in the model) how can I meet them.

    Just for clarification, I am mostly looking at Avid Flyers and Clones.

  2. #2
    Dana's Avatar
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    It varies. It will depend on the aircraft and your own experience level. When I bought my Fisher 404 and later my Starduster, both of which were single seat, they only required a verbal checkout from the previous owner, but I only had liability on them, not hull, and I had lots of tailwheel time. When I bought my Hatz, I got hull as well... at first they wanted 1 hour dual with an instructor, but when I pointed out my tailwheel and biplane time, they ammended that to 1 hour with the non CFI seller. Avids and such are pretty conventional; your tailwheel time may be a larger factor.

    In some situations they may require a CFI with no time in type to get a checkout himself from the seller or another pilot with time in type. I (not a CFI) once checked a CFI in a Quicksilver because I had recent time in type and the CFI didn't; the CFI was then able to check out the buyer of the Quicksilver.

  3. #3
    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisadviceisworthles View Post
    I am a student pilot looking to purchase an E-AB plane second hand as I finish my student certificate. I am considering a few different models, including some that are less common.

    My major concern if I buy a less common aircraft is, what transition requirements may I face from insurers and (especially if I cannot find a CFI with time in the model) how can I meet them.

    Just for clarification, I am mostly looking at Avid Flyers and Clones.
    You are most likely going to find insurance very expensive (if available) due to being a student pilot with no tailwheel endorsement. The less common an aircraft, the more difficult it is to find insurance. Aircraft that have been produced in small volumes or have a sketchy field history may be uninsurable in this day and age.

    I have used SkySmith agency for a couple of decades for insurance on experimentals. You might call them to get their input once you have narrowed down your choices of aircraft.
    Last edited by Sam Buchanan; 10-31-2018 at 11:55 AM.
    Sam Buchanan
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  4. #4
    CarlOrton's Avatar
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    I'll second Sam's recommendation to contact Sky Smith. While I don't have insurance with him (still building), I've attended several of his presentations. He's kinda like the Farmer's Insurance commercial where they've insured it all cuz they've seen it all. I'd contact him even before you narrow down your selection, as his input will probably come into play.

    One thing you didn't mention (and I'm unfamiliar with them other than name recognition) is what kind of engine they have. According to Sky, that could also come into play on insurability. Anything that's widely used (name-brand VW conversion, Corvair, Continental, Lycoming, Rotax, etc are usually OK; A chevy vega conversion, ehhhhhh, I dunno....).

    You'll also need to find a CFI with experience in those types, who would in turn be *willing* to fly in yours.

    Carl Orton
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  5. #5

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    I am doing my pilot training in a Cessna 172 and a Champ. I'm expecting 45 hours TT with 15 TW. I would prefer hull insurance, but due to the low cost of the airframes I am considering, I would be ok with just carrying liability (ideally just temporarily while I build time).

  6. #6

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    I will have a tailwheel endorsement as part of my training.

    I am looking mostly at Rotax 582s, but my ideal would be an HKS 700 or a Rotax 912.

  7. #7
    DaleB's Avatar
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    I use Gallagher for insurance. I highly recommend them, they're good and easy to work with. My coverage on a used Experimental was not terribly expensive, and when I added a second owner -- a student pilot -- my rates didn't go up at all. I was required to have 5 hours dual instruction in the make & model (RV-12).
    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

    Flying an RV-12. Building a Fisher Celebrity.

  8. #8
    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisadviceisworthles View Post
    I will have a tailwheel endorsement as part of my training.

    I am looking mostly at Rotax 582s, but my ideal would be an HKS 700 or a Rotax 912.
    If you run into a roadblock with conventional aviation insurance, and since you are considering a light aircraft, you can get liability third-party insurance through the United States Ultralight Association:

    https://www.usua.org/Insurance/

    You need to join USUA then fill out the application:

    http://www.firstflightinsurance.com/...2&P=1804057855

    I consider this a choice of last resort but this may be where you find yourself depending on aircraft/powerplant.
    Sam Buchanan
    The RV Journal RV-6 build log
    Fokker D.VII semi-replica build log

  9. #9

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    This is of interest to me, as when I talked to one of the prominently advertised insurance companies, they couldn't understand that I did not want hull insurance for an airplane that I could replace for 13K, passenger insurance for a one seat aircraft, or any other stuff...I just wanted liability insurance in case I hit a cow in a field on an engine out.

    I tried to clarify three times what I wanted, but they just kept quoting hull insurance at me, so I gave up.

    Plus they never sent the hat.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  10. #10

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    There is a local man in my area who flies an RV. His airplane has been in the EAA magazine. He is also a CFI and has thousands of hours flying. He wanted something for some low and slow flying so he purchased a Tbird. He contacts his insurance company to insure his new purchase. Becuase he has never had tail wheel indorsment this insurance that was quoted to him almost made him fall over. He did not want Hull insurance. He told me, I will fly her naked. I don't blame him. He said this will only be flown off the sod strip we have here and will never go anywhere. Just something to get in the air and fly.

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