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Thread: Youth Protection Policy

  1. #161
    Byron J. Covey
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmdive View Post
    . .... Funny, I am an LEO but not trusted to fly a kid for 10-15 mins from the EAA. And the chance that I give this organization my personal information, after the OPM lost my information.... Well, it just is not going to happen.

    So count me as a guy that will never fly a YE.
    LEO's are not immune to misbehavior.

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/iso...-sexual-abuse/


    BJC

  2. #162

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    The study showing 40 cops guilty of child rape, murder etc, is bad but some perspective: There are about 900,000 police in U S. They kill about 1357 people per year and lose about 126 police killed per year. It is hard to find accurate figures, for instance police report only "justified killings" which is given as 410.
    On the downside, police live in an atmosphere of violence in some places like south Chicago, maybe Philly, etc. And they may see violence as THE cure to most crimes and problems, even carrying over to domestic lives. And while they are supposed to be law enforcement officers, in some cases they seem to have more respect for order part of law and order, thus an affinity for being the authority figure no matter what the law actually is.
    There must be a lot of decent cops, but there are some rotten ones that slip through the seams and sometimes avoid justice for serious actions which would be major crimes if done by the public. If the public shot an unarmed cop with his hands up or running away, dont think they would get away with the excuse that the citizen "thought" he was in danger.
    I dont care much for many undercover narcotics cops, but lo and behold at Osh this year got to meet a man who had been just that. I didnt get time to talk much to him about it, but he seemed like a nice guy.
    I know 2 guys who are cops, one is a pilot parks 2 planes over and I used to rent an apt to one. I live an small mostly peaceful town with few real violent crimes and cops are extra patient, even when dealing with the occasional armed or nutty person. I cant recall them ever shooing or killing anyone.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 09-24-2016 at 10:01 AM.

  3. #163

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    I do not think that SSMDIVE intended to infer anything negative. We do as a society place a lot of trust in our police officers and hold them to a much higher standard than the rest of us. The vast majority are more than worthy of that trust. How many of us are willing to get up and go to work every day dealing with the worst of our society, knowing there is at least a better thn average chance we will never get home to our loved ones ever again. I can only say thank you for what you do to make things better for the rest of us. You have my respect !!.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmdive View Post
    . Funny, I am an LEO but not trusted to fly a kid for 10-15 mins from the EAA
    Please excuse my ignorance but what does a Zodiac sign have to do with your depth of character? ;>)

    Seriously though, you are saying-with a straight face no less-that a cop equates with good character and exemplary behaviour. Clearly, you haven't been paying much attention to current affairs. I've got a bridge in New York that I own that I'm willing to sell to you. Call me.

  5. #165
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Seriously though, you are saying-with a straight face no less-that a cop equates with good character and exemplary behaviour.
    No, I didn't take it that way. I think his point was is that he'd already undergone and passed levels of scrutiny far beyond what the YPP would require. Just as others have pointed out having high security clearances, which involve even more stringent assessment of the character of an individual. When they're going to approve someone when their misdeeds could cause "grave harm to the security of the United States," sexual crimes will not be ignored.

    But to take the EAA's side here, working the cross-organization coordination necessary to USE these other sources of character evaluation would be impossible.

    But, Floats is perfectly correct. Alistair MacLean put it best... "There are prison in America and cushy hotels in Moscow filled with people who had top-secret security clearances." EAA's YPP will likely catch the "Chester the Molester" types, but these people are usually caught before they become prosperous enough to be able to buy an airplane to fly Young Eagles. The danger is in the clever con men who pick their targets well and are able to avoid detection. These are not stupid men unable to control their impulses...in any case, their impulses are more about domination and control than mere sex. These people are far more likely to rise in society enough to be able to afford things like airplanes, but the YPP won't raise any flags because no one's caught them yet.

    When I was 13 years old, I joined a youth organization. The first adult in the group I met became my mentor for a number of years. A long time later, he was convicted as a serial child sexual predator. I was never a victim, and never witnessed anything that indicated such abuse was occurring. But when I read the newspaper accounts of what had happened back in my era, I could read it and say, "That was probably XXXX" even though the paper didn't identify the witnesses. The reasons behind a lot of puzzling things from that period had become horribly clear.

    And folks, the YPP wouldn't have caught this guy. He picked his victims carefully (all from broken homes), and was a master in manipulation. None of his victims talked for *about 35 years*. Sure, the YPP would pick him up NOW, but he's got another sixty years left in his sentence.

    So... once again, the YPP exists only to give EAA some legal protection. It gives a false level of security. It's not going to catch the ones people *truly* have to scared of.

    Ron Wanttaja

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougbush View Post
    You just insulted all your fellow EAAers who don't happen to be LEOs.
    Nonsense, you just read it that way.
    1996 Quad City Challenger CWS w/503 - Sold
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  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    No, I didn't take it that way. I think his point was is that he'd already undergone and passed levels of scrutiny far beyond what the YPP would require. Just as others have pointed out having high security clearances, which involve even more stringent assessment of the character of an individual. When they're going to approve someone when their misdeeds could cause "grave harm to the security of the United States," sexual crimes will not be ignored.
    Ron and a few others got my comment. I had a secret clearance in the military (and had my data stolen in the OPM breach). I have 10 year background checks from the govt every 5 years.... And I have background checks from my department yearly. Yes, there are cops that are criminal, and there are average Joes that are close to saints.... I however go through more and more complete vetting than the EAA program, unlike the average Joe.

    As others have pointed out, the YE BGC is mostly worthless in the real world.
    And as as others have stated, this YE program does NOTHING to protect the pilot or the local chapter. It is to cover the HQ and the HQ only.

    And the LEO bashing... Well, that's one reason I don't tend to tell people....Once again, I learn that lesson.
    Last edited by ssmdive; 09-24-2016 at 05:53 PM.
    1996 Quad City Challenger CWS w/503 - Sold
    1974 7ECA Citabria - Sold
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  8. #168
    TedK's Avatar
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    So, all of the Security Theater for YPP, provides nearly no real protection, eg, it would catch only the already convicted molester, yet drives away the Protectors of our Society.

    Well done, EAA Lawyers!

    i think our Chapter, which is home to a large number of high clearance personnel, has lost about half its YPP participants.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmdive View Post
    Yes, there are cops that are criminal, and there are average Joes that are close to saints.... I however go through more and more complete vetting than the EAA program, unlike the average Joe.
    There you go again. You are the special people and we are the average Joes. I have high respect for police, but I'm not proud of your disdain for the citizens you serve. I also have high regard for EAAers. Whether LEOs are more trustworthy than EAAers has not been studied, so you have insulted us.

  10. #170
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougbush View Post
    There you go again. You are the special people and we are the average Joes. I have high respect for police, but I'm not proud of your disdain for the citizens you serve. I also have high regard for EAAers. Whether LEOs are more trustworthy than EAAers has not been studied, so you have insulted us.
    "Makin' mock of uniforms that guard you in your sleep,
    is cheaper than them uniforms, and they're starvation cheap...."

    - Rudyard Kipling, "The Ballad of Tommy Atkins"

    There are certainly problems in the US with police policy, police training, and police attitudes. But laying one's dissatisfaction at the feet of a single random police officer isn't very productive.

    We GA pilots complain when we have to "take the rap" every time someone does something stupid and newsworthy in a small aircraft. Lets not do the same.

    Ron Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 09-25-2016 at 01:05 AM.

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