I think we're spinning our tires here, guys! Valid questions and concerns have been raised, and EAA Corporate has indicated they would respond either last week (sarcasm), or next. Let's see what they come up with and each of us can decide whether we choose to continue affiliation with YE and/or EAA. Your sand lot EAA!!
Jim
EAA 64315 (since 1-1-71, recently expired)
Edit- Enjoying seeing all the new and fairly new posters in these threads. Thanks for coming aboard!
Last edited by Jim Rosenow; 01-31-2016 at 02:53 PM.
I would like to make a few points about what I've been reading in this forum. It saddens me of the distain that I see for the EAA and its employees in this thread. All over the concerns of the Youth Protection policy which for the most part are valid however the reaction to them I feel are too extreme. It has resulted in useless mudslinging and jabs causing discontent among this group of members. And the more members that read this may also become discontent with various members on this forum and then eventually with EAA as well. Is this really productive?
I don't feel that the senior leadership team lays awake at night wondering how they can make the lives of the membership more difficult nor do they have "low regard" for its membership. As you all have valid concerns about the policy and the way it was implemented, EAA also has concerns for our youth and the overall health of the organization for which we are all a part of. Other youth groups have variations of this policy and their programs are movingly along just fine. Unfortunately this policy is a necessary evil.
It's sad to see that many of you, who have spent an enormous amount of time and resources to promote EAA, the Young Eagle program, and aviation in general have decided to pick up your ball and jacks and go home. Supposedly it stems solely from the issues raised from the Youth Protection Program. It seems to me a bit extreme that you would just drop your membership and involvement over this one policy. This one policy that granted needs some clarification and adjustments but has very workable solutions.
I am confident that HQ will work out the bugs and formally communicate these changes. Like any organization implementing a new program or policy, it's never perfect out of the gate. And many times it's never 100% but as Brett stated it's dynamic and changes will be made as required. It's obvious that HQ is listening since they've address some concerns in this forum and have already made some changes. But it appears for some that this is not good enough because it's either all or nothing. I'm afraid this is not a mature way to handle issues and conflicts.
The point that people are missing the boat on is that this policy is intended to mitigate risk or some have said, "CYA". It will not prevent 100% of the potential child abuse but it will help lower the chances of it happening. As one poster stated, we pilots are the best at mitigating risk. Just because we cannot find an incident of child abuse during a YE flight by doing a "Simple Internet Search", doesn't mean it hasn't happened or it won't happen. Thinking that since this program has such a good track record that we have nothing to worry about is not seeing the big picture. Would you not preflight or maintain your plane because it's never failed in flight before? No. You do everything possible to make sure that your plane will run as expected to maintain safe operation. Doing nothing to protect the kids, the membership, and the organizationis being complacent and you're asking for trouble.
I believe as a group we can work with EAA to make this policy successful. I've seen some good ideas that we can build on. Unfortunately I've also seen that some people are convinced that the EAA and the YE program will soon be dead and buried. This couldn't be farther from the truth. This organization hasn't lasted for 63 years by chance. Have they made mistakes along the way, absolutely. Again, what organization hasn't? But to immediately write off the program and organization rather than thinking of ways to work through problems and issues is truly sad and for those people I hope your solo endeavors are successful.
In closing I'd liketo say that I'm very grateful Paul did not have the "This won't work, Can't and won't do it, it's going to die" attitude as many of you have. If that were the case, we would not be here having this discussion nor would we have many of the privileges that we enjoy in GA today.
Safe flying everyone.
-Chuck
Last edited by Funflyin; 01-31-2016 at 02:24 PM.
How long is reasonable to wait for a response? Despite the knuckles and feet dragging, I 'd like the EAA tall foreheads to, at the very least, take a look at and consider the COPA for Kids Aviation Program in their deliberations to reconsider what they have unleashed, if in fact you are doing such a thing. In light of you going completely dark on us, we don't know what you're thinking or doing.
https://www.copanational.org/files/G...OPAForKids.pdf
In the Guidelines to the Program, you will find 3 fundamental principles within the Duty Of Care Regarding Children that drive this subject:
"Trusted adults are expected to take reasonable steps to ensure the safety and well-being of children...."
"In order to keep COPA for Kids events from being overburdened with organizational requirements, COPA does not require background checks...."
"Common sense dictates that if there is any suspicion of a participants intent, he or she should not be permitted to participate."
Well said.Originally Posted by Funflyin
Ditto! You took the words right out of my mouth.
The salvation of Y.E. is - NO ADULTS!
http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-a...V1t6UKWA%3D%3D
Last edited by Mike M; 02-01-2016 at 05:59 AM.
I'm sorry, but this is just flat nonsense, and I feel compelled to respond. The new policy smacks of lawyers dictating terms to a highly-risk averse organization: "You better do X, or someone might someday sue you!" This despite a glaring lack of *actual* risk in the first place. Time and time again I've seen this sort of organizational behavior...fear, fear, FEAR all the time, better CYA or else, won't somebody think of the children?! And over and over I've seen the people *theoretically* in charge of an organization kowtow to the lawyers, rather than treat them as they should: as House *Counsel*, emphasis on the word "counsel"...as in, they provide advice and you decide which of it to accept and which to decline, and the reasons for it. Instead, if the lawyers tell you that you just gotta have an invasive background check and unworkable policy, well By God that's what we'll do. Stupid.
And as yet another victim of the OPM disaster, I can tell those of you who whimper about "what do you have to hide" or other bromides: just wait until YOU have to worry about your personal financial and other data for the rest of your life. Then come and talk to me about how it's "no big deal".
In the end, I'll bet dollars to donuts that this policy is here to stay, regardless of any complaints or loss of YE programs. Why? Because the lawyers run the show, the "people in charge" have made their decision and won't reverse it lest they look stupid, and enough people will "go along to get along" and surrender their personal information and subject themselves to these stupid rules to keep the program limping along. And yet another organization takes another step down the "All Fear All The Time" panty-waist path that America is taking. Won't SOMEONE please think of the CHILDREN?
EAA is nearly worthless to me anymore...a big airshow that caters to Boeing and Cessna and Mooney, print media that seems like a carbon copy of Flying magazine, zero credibility on legislation (the PBOR2 is worthless, merely a different version of a Class III medical with a form no sane General Practicioner will ever sign), and an ever-decreasing emphasis on the *E* in EAA.
Chuck:
It saddens me that so many of you newer members never experience the earlier day of the EAA. If you had, you would be very very sad at what the EAA has become.
BJC
EAA [774386 before you]
OK lets do be logical about this. 15 days since the date of the letter and not one peep from HQ with the exception of an admin on here. No one other than other members is answering any questions or concerns. This policy will do zero to protect the pilots, that's right zero. Why have such a draconian "fix" where there wasn't a problem to begin with? Want me to jump through hoops, then protect the chapters and pilots as well.
What will happen is; management will dig their heels in and some members will dig their heels in and we will lose some chapters, programs and pilots. I doubt the first lawyer or management will leave. So the net result is, the kids will suffer. Less programs, less pilots, less exposure to aviation. Who are the winners in all this? There are none. All for a perceived future problem.
EXACTLY! This is the "actual versus perceived risk" fallacy that statisticians have been warning against for years. There have been entire textbooks written on the subject. (For a light hearted, easy-read treatment of the subject, pick up a copy of "Life: The Odds" by Gregory Baer.)
Politicians use perceived risk to keep the populace frightened and controlled. Lawyers use perceived risk to sway juries into ludicrous verdicts. Law-enforcement uses perceived risk to turn citizens into snitches. Drug companies use perceived risk to sell drugs with dubious efficacy. Social reformers use perceived risk to foster and feed distrust among ethnic groups. Environmentalists use perceived risk to turn people into tree-hugging luddites. Etc., ad nauseum. All it takes is success at obfuscation of the ACTUAL risk by demonizing anyone who insists on pointing to real data showing that the actual risk is minuscule (or in some cases non-extant).
Talk-show pundits like to refer to individuals that can be easily swayed by perceived risk arguments as "sheeple". I guess the lawyers got to the sheeple running the EAA these days.
The EAA's leadership SHOULD have instead followed Robert Heinlein's sage advice: "What are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what "the stars foretell," avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable "verdict of history"--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future, facts are your single clue. If it can not be expressed in numbers, it is an opinion, not fact."
Last edited by Copapilot; 01-31-2016 at 07:43 PM.
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