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Thread: Proposed Knowns and Rules for 2012

  1. #51

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    Oct 2011
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    So I guess the glider Sportsman Known sequences in 2009, 2010 and this tear were unsafe aberrations, as was the glider Intermediate for this year, since none of them had a spin. With this line of thinking, we should put a vertcal up snap roll in the Sportsman Known? And competitors can be responsible for bringing equipment that can do it. No, this sequence was drawn , IMO, with the specific intent of eliminating one group who the powers to be perceive as a thorn in their collective side. They were told in 2010 not to bother coming to Nationals any more, and in 2011 they didn't. The Board has now eliminated half of its glider flying membership from competition. Joe Arpaio would be so proud.

  2. #52

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    Nov 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLIU View Post
    Well, if you think that the rules should be changed, you should become one of us guys and make your voice heard in a forum more relevant than a web thread. I have personally had a few valuable exchanges with Brian Howard, chairman of the IAC Rules Comittee, over the years and like any organization, you get out what you put in. I will note that the rules about the awarding of medals and trophies at Nationals, to foreign national pilots, were modified this year after input from the membership. So if you are an IAC member, I encourage you to become active in your chapter. If you are not an IAC member, I encourage you to become one.

    As far as the glider aerobatics rules, I think that the Competition Committee folks have a valid concern that any ship that is placarded against spins has a lower safety margin doing aerobatics at competition altitudes. Blowing a figure into a spin during a competition flight is exciting in a fully aerobatic ship. I can only imagine how awful it would be seeing a hammer blown into a spin in a ship placarded against spins. We all go out there planning to fly a perfect flight, but we hardly ever do, and the glider aerobatic flights that I have Judged at Nationals have shown me that gliders have enough handicaps in the box that I am surprised that pilots out there want to add flying a non-spinnable ship to the list. And all of the power pilots have to spin, so IAC is not discriminating against the glider pilots in general. Its a competition and your showing up with the right equipment is part of the competition.

    Hope this logic makes sense.

    Wes
    N78PS
    I just want to make sure I clarify my previous post. Our ASK-21 CAN spin with a Spin-Kit that adds weight to the tail. There are no placards against it, however aerobatics are prohibited with the kit installed.

    I am glad to hear that Category Trophies can also be handed out to non-citizens at Nationals. I was informed that only medals would be handed out.
    Best,
    Rafael

  3. #53

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    "unsafe aberations" - Based on some interactions that I have had in the past year with the IAC Board, my guess is that the members who believe that competition should make each pilot demonstrate the full range of skills prevailed in the discussion over the inclusion of the spin. Those folks likely believe that omitting the spin was indeed an "unsafe aberation". Like it or not, the Competition Comittee seems to believe that each year's Known Program should put the competitiors in the position of demonstrating that they posess, or are developing (sometimes under duress) the full range of flying skills expected at each level.

    Its a competition, not a fly in. I will offer the proposition that the pilot who brings equipment that can do all of the figures including the spin, and then demonstrates the ability to fly all of those figueres well, should receive a higher score than the pilot who, for perhaps good reasons, can not meaure up to that scale. Many of us fly each contest. Only a few go home with trophies.

    One unspoken facet of aerobatic competition at all levels is that to be successful you must organize and fund equipment and training and time to bring your skills up to a high level. And to do that, you have to organize other parts of your personal life and priorities. The moment that you dive into the contest box is only the culmination of all of that preparation.

    All of that said, just about all of us have demands on our time and $$ that compete with aviation. Not having the best equipment on contest day doesn't make you a less skilled or talented pilot, just a guy with perhaps less means. Enjoy flying the heck out of the ship that you have. Be successfull in your non-aviation life and you will find a way to fly that super-ship.

    Regards,

    Wes
    N78PS

  4. #54

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    Aug 2011
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    Seattle, WA and Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldanr View Post
    I just want to make sure I clarify my previous post. Our ASK-21 CAN spin with a Spin-Kit that adds weight to the tail. There are no placards against it, however aerobatics are prohibited with the kit installed.

    I am glad to hear that Category Trophies can also be handed out to non-citizens at Nationals. I was informed that only medals would be handed out.
    Best,
    Rafael
    Rafael,

    I think that Wes misspoke (miswrote?)... as you might have heard elsewhere, all Nationals participants are eligible to win flight medals; only U.S. citizens are eligible to win category trophies. This is per the current P&P (503, I think).

    Jim

  5. #55

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    Merry Christmas,

    Since Jim has provided a nudge to see if my imperfect middle aged recollection was correct, I went digging for the real data.

    I will first point out that my actual statement was "I will note that the rules about the awarding of medals and trophies at Nationals, to foreign national pilots, were modified this year after input from the membership." I am pretty sure that the point I was trying to make was that we should all participate in the process and that the IAC Board is not just an elite group of acro snobs that ignores all of us great unwashed out here in the hinterlands.

    So I went digging on the IAC web site to see what had been published. If you have not spent any time in the Members section, the IAC rulebook, Policy and procedures, contest results, and Board Meeting Minutes are published there. Soooo.... I did not find anything new in the Policy and Procedures (the IAC is often slow in updating this stuff anyway), but I found the discussion that I remembered in the minutes of the recent IAC Board meeting. The meeting minutes state


    "Doug Bartlett asked that the Board address the issue of the nationality eligibility requirement for the various awards given at Nationals. As decided last year, only US citizens are eligible to be National Champions but everyone is eligible for individual flight medals. However, there are many other awards given that should be defined. The following determinations were suggested:
    • Non-flying awards: Any IAC member
    • Curtis Pitts Memorial Trophy: Unrestricted award
    • Safety Award: Any US Nationals pilot or volunteer (determined by Contest Director, not necessary to
    award every year).
    • “Old Buzzard” Award: Any pilot but can only be won once
    • Chapter Team Trophy: Any IAC chapter (no restriction on nationality of pilots)
    • Grassroots Award: Any pilot flying a plane that qualifies
    • First-time Sportsman Award: Any pilot flying his or her first sportsman contest ever
    • L. Paul Soucy Aerobatic Award: Any IAC pilot regardless of nationality
    • John Serafin Trophy: Any glider pilot
    • Bob Schnuerle Trophy: The status of the winner of the four-minute free will changed to National Champion
    of the Four-Minute Free. Therefore, US citizens only.
    • Goodrich Trophy: non-US citizens
    • Mike Murphy Cup: US citizen only because this trophy is awarded to the Unlimited National Champion
    • Betty Skelton Trophy: US woman only
    • MT-Propeller Trophy: US citizen because this trophy is awarded to the Advanced National Champion (this is a change in wording)
    • Fred Leidig Trophy: US citizen because this trophy is awarded to the Intermediate National Champion"

    Since I have always been a US Citizen, I have to admit that I previously thought that non-citizens were not eligible for ANY awards, so the policy articulated above looks like an upgrade to me. But then, I also think that folks who are not yet US citizens ought to follow in he path of Sergei Boriak, the new US Advanced Champion. Its not instant gratification, but then neither is competition.

    Regards,

    Wes
    N78PS

  6. #56

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    Nov 2011
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    3
    Thanks for the clarification Jim. I could not find any additional changes.

    Like Wes mentioned: It is a matter of showing up with all the "right stuff"... Well, I only have 4 more years to go for Citizenship to have the right stuff.

    Regardless of several trophies offered out there: If you compete in aerobatics your goal is to WIN, otherwise we wouldn't be competitors. I think there is really only one trophy that we are all after. So regardless of the medals, trophies, awards and a good job tap on the back nothing really changed.

    I know a few of the board members myself and I respect the decision they have reached so far. Yes, it is very discouraging to only a few of US but like every other competition rules need to be followed and respected. I am a supporter, and I vote that U.S Citizens and U.S residents should be legible for obvious reasons.

    Until then it is hard to justify going to the Nationals. The only thing I can do is keep counting the days.

  7. #57

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    I would offer the observation that if you show up and fly, no matter whether or not the officials hand you a trophy, your peers will know who the best pilot of the day is. I recall that once upon a time Leo Loudenslager competed for the world championship and was not awarded the first place trophy. If I recall correctly, there might have been some politics involved. Anyway, my imperfect recollection is, after the official awards ceremony, the Russian team took Leo aside and presented him with a model airplane. Their statement was something to the effect that "We know who the best pilot here is."

    So I would encourage you to show up and fly. If you can post a score better than the individual who is handed the first place trophy, your peers will note that. And you, the person who counts most, will know.

    Regards,

    Wes
    N78PS

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