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Thread: We reached a settlement agreement with the FAA re: ATC fees for AirVenture

  1. #11
    Disappointed in the lack of leadership. EAA was placed in a tough spot but this "settlement" is more accurately described as "total capitulation".EAA argues that canceling AirVenture would greatly harm GA. So why did they not use this to our advantage? Threaten to cancel the event, allow the community, industry politicians to rise up in outrage at the potential loss of our SuperBowl. An FAA backdown under the face of overwhelming public pressure would have been a great victory for GA. Instead, our second largest association has meekly accepted user fees. I believe this has harmed GA more than canceling AirVenture for a year would.I can buy the argument there wasn't enough time to create an alternative to the FAA controllers last year using volunteers or contractors. But with more than a year to work on it? The EAA community has demonstrated many times a capability to safely and responsibly stage complex aviation activities. The procedures are already in place and are not rocket science to execute. Wresting control from FAA would have been an empowering move. But again, EAA has simply rolled over. I have it on good authority that EAA won't use volunteer or contract controllers for fear of accident liability coming back to the organization.No one is asking EAA to be reckless, but the complete absence of backbone is worrying. It leaves the distinct impression that EAA is prioritizing its own balance sheet ahead of the wider interest of the community.

  2. #12

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    Put me down as another member who would have rather seen Oshkosh cancelled than EAA agreeing to this. They have formalized the same situation that they were willing to fight in court last year. The EAA has willingly opened GA to administratively applied user fees. This will not benefit GA in the long run.

  3. #13
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    Since this forum only represents the opinions, comments and viewpoints of only 4.8% of the the total membership--hardly a bellweather for consensus of opinion on this or any other subject--, I'd like to know the following: From, Hal, can you tell us what the consensus is from phone calls and emails to HQ? From all forum users, as I am not on other social media, can you provide a ballpark figure of consensus from all other social media(e.g., Facebook, Twitter, etc.) on this subject? These numbers are important.

    Questions concerning the 2 Agreements:


    Since the 2014 Reimbursable Agreement does not supersede or nullify the 2013 Agreement, why didn't EAA ask for or insist on a repayment of that portion of the almost $450,000 that could be counted as the Discounted amount that's allowed for in the 2014 Agreement? That's a huge amount.

    The 2014 Reimbursable Agreement allows for EAA to opt out of the agreement anytime during the Term. However, should the Agreement run its course of 9 years, there is no provision to renew, renegotiate or extend. It just expires. This is quite unusual. What happens after expiration?

    And finally to Sean Elliot: Your job description has changed immensely with the added big time oversight duties and responsibilities of these Agreements. Have you ask for a raise?

  4. #14
    TedK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Since this forum only represents the opinions, comments and viewpoints of only 4.8% of the the total membership--hardly a bellweather for consensus of opinion on this or any other subject--, I'd like to know the following: From, Hal, can you tell us what the consensus is from phone calls and emails to HQ? From all forum users, as I am not on other social media, can you provide a ballpark figure of consensus from all other social media(e.g., Facebook, Twitter, etc.) on this subject? These numbers are important.

    And finally to Sean Elliot: Your job description has changed immensely with the added big time oversight duties and responsibilities of these Agreements. Have you ask for a raise?
    Two points:

    Yes please, what about Member Consensus?

    It follows naturally that EAA might claim that survival of the Organization is essential to the survival of GA. EAA, please don't go there.

    I will, however, give EAA a way out of this that is right up Sean's alley. Victory can still be snatched from the Jaws of Defeat by a Legislative solution that satisfactorily rectifies this situation.

    EAA- I'm watching. Let's see how you do on the PNC part of SARA, GAPPA, and a long term legislative overturn of this debacle. You have the opportunity to make the future better. Please do so.

    ok, then maybe a raise.
    Last edited by TedK; 03-22-2014 at 10:17 AM.

  5. #15
    jjhoneck's Avatar
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    Color me disgusted, disappointed, and angry.

    It will be impossible to stop users fees now, thanks to EAA -- the organization I was counting on to save us from double taxation.

    I love Oshkosh. This will be my 32nd consecutive trip to Wittman Field. But I would have gladly sacrificed 2014 to make this point .

  6. #16
    EAA Staff / Moderator Hal Bryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Since this forum only represents the opinions, comments and viewpoints of only 4.8% of the the total membership--hardly a bellweather for consensus of opinion on this or any other subject--, I'd like to know the following: From, Hal, can you tell us what the consensus is from phone calls and emails to HQ? From all forum users, as I am not on other social media, can you provide a ballpark figure of consensus from all other social media(e.g., Facebook, Twitter, etc.) on this subject? These numbers are important.
    Hi Floats -

    I can't give you any indication of calls or emails at this point, other than to say that there's been no feedback via any of the (what I'd call "secondary") inboxes to which I personally have access.

    I haven't seen any response on Twitter beyond 8 retweets and 2 "favorites."

    With respect to Facebook, we've seen feedback in two places - the Facebook plugin below the story on EAA.org and on our Facebook page:

    The news story on EAA.org has 269 likes so far and 8 comments which you can read for yourself: http://eaa.org/news/2014/2014-03-21_eaa-faa-reach-agreement-on-airventure-atc-costs.asp

    The post on our Facebook page has, as of now, 182 likes, 32 shares, and 11 comments. Again, you can read those for yourself (you should be able to view all of the comments without a Facebook login):

    https://www.facebook.com/EAAHQ/posts...?stream_ref=10

    There have been no wall posts or direct messages via our Facebook page regarding this announcement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Questions concerning the 2 Agreements:
    I don't have the answers to those questions. For anyone who has questions or concerns, I'd urge you to join the webinar presentation next week - Jack Pelton will present live and we expect plenty of time for interactive Q&A. If you can't attend, the webinar will be recorded and published as usual. You can find the details here:

    http://www.eaa.org/webinars/

    Thanks -

    Hal

    Hal Bryan
    EAA Lifetime 638979
    Vintage 714005 | Warbirds 553527
    Managing Editor
    EAA—The Spirit of Aviation

  7. #17
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    Hi Hal,

    Thanks for the info and for posting the Facebook sites that did allow me to view comments without a login.

    If you could keep us apprised and updated of any emails or calls received that would be great.

    Because of the time in my timezone and the fact that it's during work hours, I may not be able to join the Webinar, as much as I'd like to. So I'm asking if you could provide Jack with my first 2 questions for inclusion in the Q&A portion, that would be much appreciated. My 3rd question was of course with tongue planted firmly in cheek and an attempt to lighten the mood and extent of the vitriol being expressed.

  8. #18

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    Hal,
    Here is my question and feedback for the Webinar. Please pass to Jack.

    The contract allows for EAA to find alternate services. Has or will EAA contact Air Boss, Inc Lead by George Cline and see if he is willing to staff the ATC with his Retired FAA Controllers all of whom have worked AV. He has stated he could do AV for 1/2 the staff that FAA will bring and 1/3 the cost and do a better job as his controllers are all trained in VFR operations which current FAA non-Contract controllers are not.

    I would rather pay George than give ONE $ to the FAA.

  9. #19
    Eagle Six's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Bryan View Post
    I don't have the answers to those questions. For anyone who has questions or concerns, I'd urge you to join the webinar presentation next week - Jack Pelton will present live and we expect plenty of time for interactive Q&A. If you can't attend, the webinar will be recorded and published as usual. You can find the details here:

    http://www.eaa.org/webinars/

    Thanks -

    Hal
    Thanks for the headsup, I just happen to be available for the webinar this Tuesday. Hopefully there will be some insight into future success for GA gleamed from the decisions being made by the EAA. Unfortunately, at this point, I'm disappointed with the EAA for signing such agreements. Hopefully this webinar isn't an effort to save face with the members, by closing the door after the horses run off!


    Best Regards.......George
    George Dean
    CP-ASMEL/I, S-6ES
    EAA, APA, & AOPA member
    KTYL/KGEU, EAA White Mountain Chapter 586 - Show Low Regional KSOW
    "If you go down, go down standing up"

  10. #20
    I noticed the agreements were actually signed on March 19th. Oldest PR trick in the book to slip the bad news out on a Friday afternoon.

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