Parking Problems at Oshkosh

[vaflier]

While I and my friends had a great time at Oshkosh this year there were some problems. Especially with the parking Nazi. She was truly something. I was polite , friendly, courteous, and patient. She was none of the above. She gave a very poor representation of the spirit of EAA. I was upset enough by her behaviour that I went to the registration building and lodged a complaint with a gentleman , who informed me that I was the 9th complaint that morning concerning this individual. He further told me that he had received numerous complaints about her the day before as well, and had spoken with the higher ups including a VP , and felt that his concerns had been " Blown OFF ". He plainly stated that he had done all that he could, and unfortunately expected nothing to come of it. It turns out that this young lady was purported to be the daughter of one of the people in charge of aircraft parking. While I understand that not all of the people she came into contact with would be as friendly and polite as I was, I would suggest that starting a conversation about a problem by ranting and raving is probably not going to get the best reaction. There were many other people in the north forty who had similar experiences with her over the course of the event. She was really peeved that someone had authorised us to park in an area that she did not want us to be. We had proper registration and were in a numbered lane which was a proper parking area. What really made me mad was that, as she left she was yelling that " She would personally gaurantee that we would not be parking there next year ! "
I am very disturbed that we will not be allowed to camp with our friends next year. That is a big part of the event , to spend time with your friends ! If we are forced to be spread all over the grounds then what is the point. Surely there must be a way to accomodate groups that come in at different times. The gentleman at the registration building suggested that If I felt strongly about the matter, I should contact a Vice President or Mr Hightower. I left several messages at the main headquarters building requesting a call from Mr Hightower. To date I have heard nothing !. I realise that Mr. Hightower is a very busy man and I truly did not expect a call from him during Oshkosh. Enough time has now passed that beleive he has had time to " Catch Up "

Mr Hightower , I again ask for a moment of your time to discuss the concerns of myself and my friends.

Randy Powell
EAA # 820213

[flyingriki]

Randy I hope you'll keep us informed of how this turns out. There will always be the little power monsters in volunteering that have never been in control of others before and get stupid about it. I relieved a guy at a gate once, long after my time was done, because he was being such a jerk and I felt the gate needed a smile rather than a tyrant. But it's the management that needs to address this nonsense and it will be interesting to see if they do, or if they really have grown beyond giving a hoot. Oh, I'm sure you'll hear the platitudes from moderators etc. but will anything come of it....really? Good luck.
PS: Just to be fair, the folks I dealt with were great this year. Crappy facilities for $22 a night to sleep on dirt (3 night minimum!) but great volunteers.

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, Your statement seems very fairly and calmly stated. Please pursue it with EAA. Don't just let them brush you off. There are too many nice people in EAA to let a few ruin it.
It will be interesting to see if this new man, Hightower? is just a pr oriented yes man, who puts on a good front or who really gets down to the lower levels and keeps EAA as it ought to be.
I have hopes.

[scoltharp]

Although I did not get involvedwith the young lady that you talk of I have my own gripe about the parking procedures in the North 40. A group of us from the Tulsa area have been meeting and camping around row 557 since 1998. We always arrive two days before the event starts so we will not not interrupt the heavy flow of airplanes by asking for a specific row. That row is never filled when we arrive. Actually that row is about as far away from "front row center" as you can get and most folks don't like to park that far out. We like it because we can go through the hole in the wall several times a day and get our supplies. Our procedure is to make a sign for the window with a large 557 on it and one for GAC. In years past there was no problem - the parkers would just wave us on and we would taxi over and park ourselves. This year the parkers said NO and made us park on whatever row was filling up at the time. The volunteer leader that parked me said we could not park over there - we had to park in the order we arrived. He also stated that "the special parking caused too many problems in 2010"(it seemed to me that in 2010 the parking problem was all the mud and soft areas). Three of our bunch parked within a few rows of each other this year simply because we came in together and none of us got waved off to the netherlands.

We were not able to enojy our evening "cook outs" because it was just too much hassle to get on the bus, go around to the hole in the wall, walk over to the store,get groceries, supplies and get back to the bus and back to our camping area. The evening camaraderie with my friends from Tulsa and other friends that we have gotten to know through the years by parking in our favorite area is the main reason for me enjoying Oshkosh for the last 12 years. I will not be returning to Oshkosh!

[Kyle Boatright]

I will not be returning to Oshkosh!

One parking problem and you're not going back?

Why not find the parking chairman and ask if the direction you were given this year is a new policy, and if so, ask it the policy could be changed? Alternately, if the volunteers just took it upon themselves to create a new rule, the parking chairman could probably address that with a little better training for the volunteers.

[jbeech]

My own business deals with several flying events each year. Thus, I know from experience dedicated volunteers are hard to find. There's an unfortunate byproduct of depending on volunteers, which leaves event organizers caught on the horns of a dilemma. To wit, matching up the available skills to the diverse jobs (because unlike a business, you must deal with the resources, e.g. people, you have).

Parking, for example, is a hot, dirty, and rather thankless job. Moreover, it requires dogged determination (more so than native intelligence). The fact they have roped someone into the job year after year provides ample proof the organization has found the round peg for the round hole. Thus, instead of kvetching about this person, be thankful they've got someone dumb enough for the essentially no-win job whom doesn't require monetary remuneration!

Of course, there's an alternative. Folks unhappy with the status quo can always volunteer their own time to be the replacement parking nazi. Somehow I rather suspect they'd be welcomed by the organization with open arms.

[Lrrryo]

Yes, parking together is a HUGE issue with this event, and the reason that I go. If I couldn't be with friends, I'd pass too.

John, I can appreciate what you say, but regardless of the difficulty and disgusting the job is, there's no reason not to do it right.

For years, I've had good luck arriving with friends or getting into a specific area without an issue, but a few years back it became an issue so I started arriving with the Bonanza's to OSH group, which is a great choice. There's still some big issues on how we are handled that could be solved with a little education which would not be hard. However, when one gets condescending and threatening, there's no place for them.

Yes, this needs to be brought to higher attention and solved.

Larryo

[Hangar10]

Of course, there's an alternative. Folks unhappy with the status quo can always volunteer their own time to be the replacement parking nazi. Somehow I rather suspect they'd be welcomed by the organization with open arms.

That may very well be the answer in some cases, but many of those that are disgruntled have volunteered themselves for decades and are no longer physically willing or able to patrol hot and dusty flight lines for hours. I personally know several people who have made their last trip to Oshkosh due solely to the fact that they are unable to park where they want to, close to one another. One has hundreds of YE flights in his log, another has worked tirelessly for our local chapter, and continues to do so. Telling them to "buck up and volunteer" is no way to treat these guys who just want to enjoy the organization and event that THEY helped build and sustain.

I doubt that Paul would appreciate knowing of the way this situation has been handled. Having mud and water in 2010 is one thing... but being scattered about just because parking airplanes is "hard"... come on... get someone out there with a little common sense and take care of the people who bother to fly in. If a pilot wants to park in a particular area that has available parking, they ought to be able to do so. Many groups plan well in advance in order to park, camp, eat and visit with each other. "scoltharp" even states that they arrive early in order to secure their preferred row. What is the problem? I was there all week... the N-40 was nowhere near full and the row 557 area was pretty thin until maybe Thursday, at which time there were a few airplanes scattered about. Keep it up and parking will become less and less of a problem as the crowd gets thinner and thinner. Is that what we want?

Funny how Scholler campers are allowed to arrive early in order to secure their preferred campsite. But pilots? No, you must go where we tell you. How about this... next year, try telling RV campers that they must start filling Camp Scholler in order of arrival from the back to the front, or the front to the back, or which ever manner someone ELSE thinks makes good sense. See how that flies! Sounds crazy right? Well, that is what is happening to our pilots. Let's just turn the whole thing into an RV campground and not deal with those pesky, hard to park small airplanes.

[FlyingRon]

I work Vintage parking. I know the chairman of both the north end flight line operations and the south side (vintage). Both sides are looking at constant improvement so posting here (and if you want I can send you direct contact information if you're unable to locate it otherwise).

I'm not sure what point you're making about Scholler. The rules there are pretty much the same as for airplanes. These guys get there early (sometimes months early), set up, and (MOST IMPORTANTLY) PAY for the spot from that time until the end of the show (with the possibility of an early departure credit after the fact). Similar things happen in vintage. If you arrive and have a pre setup (and paid) camp site and can communicate that, we'll put you in there if at all possible. Of course, when we have a mass arrival (while we don't tend to get things the size of the Cessna, Mooney, or Bonanza arrivals, we do get groups of type club arrivals). At that point, we do have to enmass park them together. Nobody has enough time to allow people to just randomly go picking out spots leaving spacing to themselves.

However, one should calm down before posting here. Nobody is inclined to do anything for people who shout (either in person or in all caps and bold font) or call people Nazi's no matter how poorly you are treated.

[James Scheibner]

Note: I use the term “Them” as gender neutral and there is truly more than one person that has impacted us in a negative manner.
Randy, I too have had similar experiences with "Them" over the last few years. Granted, 2010 was a complete cluster due to Mother Nature, but we managed to get where we wanted that year. But this year and 2009 were an absolute joke when it came to "Their" customer service/ relations and several EAA members that I have spoken with in the North 40.

I must start out with a "tip of the hat" to the most of the Volunteers who make AirVenture possible and to EAA itself. It’s quite an effort to make something this large work so well (for the most part). Being a retail aviation business owner and airport manager the last 18 years has given me a well-balanced perspective on how to work with people and the demands that come with it.

Our family and friends have been regular North 40 campers each summer since 1992 and have always have been welcomed and treated very well. My wife and I loved the place so much that we decided to elope and get married here back on opening day 1996 (Reverend Ed Riddick presiding!) EAA staff was outstanding in helping us and we maintain a close connection with those that have become our friends. Our children have known no summers without Oshkosh (AirVenture) and we hope to keep it that way, but recent experiences threaten to alter this dream.

We use to do the same thing with the "Row 553" sign to get us where we needed. Always arriving 7am on Saturday morning when traffic was light and no one was close to the northwest side. This was never a problem or issue. We were greeted normally by the ground crew, given our slips or registration and fueling by the same smiling folks every year. We got to know some of the crew by name and they too remembered us as the "310" on the North corner.

We stay the entire week plus. In the beginning, it was purely a vacation type of trip for us, but it morphed into a combination business/vacation trip as I became involved with a major aircraft manufacturer as an area representative. Subsequently, we have a large aircraft, with a large tent and screen house for our family of 4 plus all of our local EAA chapter (1497) members that try to camp close to us and all our "Oshkosh" friends we have made over the years. People know where to find us and gather with us to enjoy great aviation camaraderie. Here are a few EAA photos and links:
http://www.eaa.org/apps/galleries/gallery.aspx?ID=194


http://www.eaa.org/apps/galleries/gallery.aspx?ID=194


http://www.eaa.org/apps/galleries/gallery.aspx?ID=194




This year we were informed that this was no longer possible. "They" refused our request, even after hearing a plea from an EAA official (EAA Board Member and business acquaintance that assured me that what we were doing was quite OK with EAA.) Many of the volunteers around seemed almost embarrassed by their lack of diplomacy and looked the other way! This was not the first time I've spoken with “them”, and they seemed quite pleased with how they denied our polite request.

We took an alternative plan and secured an area behind the Super 8 hotel to camp as plan "B" (you might have seen our "Chapter in Excile" sign next to our Chapter banner there). When I approached “them” again with the request and this time with the specter of actually chasing paying customers off field, “they” were not even interested in our request. We then informed them of our moving the aircraft to the North Gate to unload and set the aircraft for the week in parking. “They” sternly warned us not to permanently set up over where we wanted to camp and subsequently had EAA Security follow us and sit there and watch us unload the aircraft. The whole episode was ridiculous and honestly quite embarrassing for EAA.

We watched for the rest of the week as other parties tried to do as in the past (traditions), they were greeted with the same treatment and degrading behavior. There were a few who had staked their placed on Thursday before AirVenture, well before our arrival and were able to stay where they set-up, but were scolded later on for doing so and treated poorly as well.

We've been told several things by different parties of what the issues are and not once do they come together to make any sense. We're completely baffled by this change in attitude and seek to find a reasonable explanation.

I purposely held off publicly airing this issue because I'm not one to complain without being armed with reasonable solutions, but we also need to hear the issues that are driving this change. It is time to put the issue forward with those in charge and hope that Mr. Powell's comments along with myself and others be addressed. I know personally of many more out there that have had the same experience as we have and hope to work towards a resolution that benefits EAA and its member’s traditions. After all, we are members as well as customers. No one should be treated that way.

James Scheibner
EAA 525344