RV or Harmon Rocket for Competition?

[steveinindy]

I don't think he's looking to fly military fighters. Nobody sustains 7-9G in any piston plane, aerobatics or not. The Unlimited monoplanes might pull G is this range, but it'll only last about 1 second. There's no need to pull more than about 4.5G at the Sportsman level. And even at that, the G is experienced for very short amounts of time. You really don't have to be in great shape to fly aerobatics, or even competition acro. If you came to a contest you might be surprised that many guys have the same beer guts that non-acro guys have. :-)

Oh, I know. I know a lot of military pilots who are rather flabby too. The point is not the actual level of fitness but the cardiac issues that tend to lurk asymptomatically in those of us with a sedentary lifestyle. I agree that there's no need to pull more than 4.5 g but would say that it extends beyond the sportsman level to include any level to be quite honest unless you're in combat. You get much beyond 5 or 6 g, especially if you're inverted and most people are going to find it downright unpleasant. Even with my masochistic streak, this is the case with me and with most of the folks I know who do aerobatics. I just don't see the need to do anything beyond that but then again, I tend to look at aerobatics and such at airshows like Oshkosh with a healthy degree of "Eh...that's nice....moving on". My point about the RV series being unsuited was from the assumption that he had little background in aerobatics and was looking to go out and really tear it up. Even for 4.5 g, a marginal factor of safety of 25% would put the RV series at the lower end of the suitability spectrum and I wouldn't go beyond that level in an aircraft without a much higher design load tolerance.

[frank_rv4]

http://youtu.be/Wr4KRnqn79E

That's me in my RV4 - practicing for this years - 2012 - sportsman. I was planning on doing it at the rocky mountain house contest in Sept. I'm in a trade deal however on a unlimited acro machine - that has fully inverted systems. so I may be flying that instead. Only cavote I have to fly mine out 3000miles to Quebec. from the west coast.

I would agree with some of the comments of course. My Rv4 - is very capable of doing up to the sportsman catagory - which is a ton of fun - and the price of these are reasonable - usually 40 - 50 K can get you into a nice RV4. I have also flown the RV7's - they are much heavier and not as good at performing aerobatics as the RV4 is. The RV4 is the basis that was used to develop the F1 rocket and the Harmon Rocket. I would lean towards the F1 over the harmon - but of course it's the quality of the build that matters and the equipment on board etc... watch my video I think it demonstrates the capablity of the RV4. It's restricted to +6 and - 3 G - I have never gone beyond 4.5 - sustained anyways. Most loops I do about 3 - 3.2 G. I don't do a lot of Neg. g as mine is a non inverted bird. I would need to get a ellison throttle body or fuel injection and a inverted oil system installed. But it's not really worth it because it's not a competitor in the intermediate catagory - main problem I have is the smaller rudder - you don't have the rudder authority you need to do - snap rolls for example - also that wing is designed to FLY not stall - so it's hard to do good spins - you have to hold it in the spin and force it into one. snap rolls not so pretty - at least with my plane. If I had maybe more throw - or a larger surface area perhaps. it's a fun plane for the price and can do lots - similar to the RV8 but slightly smaller . Great plane for the money. Also most of the true aerobatic planes in this price range - would be cloth - or wood - metal - cloth combination - here you would need a hanger - due to winter - snow etc... rain etc... and heat from the sun etc... just not good for them - I considered a pitts but I have a paved spot but no hanger space - it's very expensive here for hanger space if any were avialble. so that's why I got the RV4 I needed an all metal plane. What you need to do - is follow your heart - is aerobatics something that you are going to live and die by? that's the reason I'm trading mine in on another Acro machine - because this is what I live to do. But if you only want to do some rolls and the odd loop - or cuban 8 once and a while - and perfer to go off to the fly ins etc... and use it for X - country etc... then the RV's may be what you need. Glass air's also fast and can do basic aerobatics - but land fast.

Hope you find what you are looking for.

[Saville]

http://youtu.be/Wr4KRnqn79E My Rv4 - is very capable of doing up to the sportsman catagory - which is a ton of fun - and the price of these are reasonable - usually 40 - 50 K can get you into a nice RV4. I

Hi Frank, I just joined this forum and was interested to read your comments. I'm looking at RV-4's and I see a few in the price range you specify. My question is a bit general with regard to homebuilts: How do I know it wasn't built poorly? Are there checks that can be made before buying any homebuilt that gives you some feeling of security that the builder did a good job? Thanks

[frank_rv4]

Great video - I have Neil Williams book on my Desk! I did take about 5 hours of professional instruction though! And since then I've learned all I can with my current AC and plan to also attend IAC competition near me soon. Some great words from an obvioulsy wise pilot who knows his stuff! Would love to see him in an airshow or at a competition. And be honored to have a chance to be instructed or fly with him. Glad I watched this. Some day I hope also to be as good as you are. I'm only starting out at this point with my RV4 - my 4th plane. Looks like you have or had a Cap232. I'm also into the models - just finished a 30cc size Extra 260 - would love to have a real one. Here's me in my RV4 - copa for kid's day - same as the young eagles program through AOPA. I think the RV4 is a half decent plane to get started - I first learned in a citabria - it's slightly faster and more capable then that plane but not by much. Some would arugue the citabria is a better plane probalby. personally I like being able to get 1000' of verticle - which mine is capable of. and being able to go 200mph. if I want to. does nice looks and rolls spins nice - excellent recovery - etc... just don't have inverted fuel unfortunatly!! so I have to watch my G's stay in the postive. I'm definetly ready to move up to something better soon.

[jjhoneck]

I'm not Frank, but I recently went through the daunting process of finding a quality, pre-built RV. We bought an RV-8A last summer, after a nationwide search.

Best advice: Hire an expert. After noodling around (unsuccessfully) a bit on my own, I hired Tom Berge, a "one stop shop" RV guru from Minnesota who has built many RVs, is a CFI who specializes in RV transition training, is an expert sheet metal craftsman, and knows wiring and avionics.

Each night we would pore over T-A-P photos of RVs for sale on the internet -- him sitting in MN, me in TX. Tom knows enough about RVs to be able to tell if the plane was built according to plans, or if the builder free-lanced some things. He understands and appreciates good workmanship, and was able to steer me away from ones that did not pass his exacting standards.

Here's how it works, from start to finish: Once you find one you both think looks promising, Tom becomes your agent on the ground, doing the prebuy inspections. He will then test fly the plane. (We rejected one at that point, because it had squirrelly stall characteristics, indicating a possible wing anomaly of some sort that could not be seen by looking at the plane.)

If you decide to buy it, he then handles the purchase paperwork for you with the seller. After purchase, he becomes your delivery/ferry pilot. Our plane was in Vermont, and he flew it to his home base in Minnesota, where he made several modifications to the plane for us. (Adding back seat controls; a luggage door arm; doing the nosewheel mod, etc.)

He then delivered it to us in Texas -- where he became our transition trainer, signing us both off after the obligatory 5 hours of dual instruction. (A normal insurance requirement.)

We have been ecstatic with the RV, and we could not have done it without Tom. Even though I had twenty years of piloting, and 17 years of aircraft ownership experience, I felt like a total newbie in the experimental world, and am VERY glad I hired Tom to keep me out of the weeds with bad homebuilt aircraft.

If you want his contact info, let me know!