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Thread: AirVenture 2022 - The Good, Bad, and Ugly

  1. #41
    mazdaP5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Here's the post-show ugly. I got a message from the EAA asking my opinion, but goes to a 404 page on surveymonkey when clicked.

    Further, the post has an obnoxious privacy invasion (tracking pixels) as part of their commercial spam provider.
    I was sent a second email with a working link.

  2. #42

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    second surveymonkey link worked, some selected comments:

    Volunteers were great in general with special mention to the folks at Express Arrival / Camper Registration and KidVenture. The weather was of course spectacular (EAA can't take credit for that).


    The proliferation of golf carts, personal automobiles and other motorized devices on the show grounds is out of control. I can understand vendors needing vehicles during show hours while their exhibits are open. How can you possibly justify their use in the evening to attend the night airshow. Most seem to be driven by otherwise fit, younger adults and many showed utter disregard for the safety of pedestrians. Are you waiting for an attendee to be maimed or killed before you take action and reign these things in?


    EAA Security is ineffective. As an example at the Wed. night airshow pedestrians were subjected to TSA-style shakedown at the entry gate while motorized vehicles were waved through without a second glance. Old women and children were forced to open and show their camp chairs - DISGRACEFUL. My wife and son waited in that pedestrian queue for nearly 30 minutes to get into the night airshow. I on the other hand drove my mobility scooter through one of the vehicle entrances carrying a basket full of electronic devices and a large concealed backpack of other personal items. The EAA Security person at the vehicle gate barely looked up from her phone.


    While leaving the Wed. night airshow, a golf cart carrying 4 young men intentionally bumped into my wife and did so again when she didn't immediately get out of their way. She reported this to EAA Security staff who stated: "Yeah, those golf carts are a real problem". Needless to say we did not attend the Saturday night show. I doubt we will ever again until EAA takes action.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Additional ugliness. Despite previous lawsuits and consent orders the EAA still persists in failing to comply with basic ADA requirements.
    What's the solution?

    As I said, there were kids riding one-wheels through vintage. Another ran up to an electric trike (with handicap sticker) and was spinning the tire riding off. There were so many of Spencer Aircraft's Jupiter bikes riding around inside the grounds they must give a free sticker with every purchase. All these people got in somehow, and very few were disabled. It might be good to call out a clueless security guard, but in general, the only way the EAA could make a bigger effort would be to treat everyone as disabled and give anyone who arrives a personal golf cart.

    Security at the show is a joke anyway. A volunteer with "20 years of doing security" was adamant about there being no such thing as a no generator area in scholler, and wanted me to walk all the way back to take a picture of the sign someone must have "illegally put up". Can't expect someone like that to have heard of the lawsuits. Hell, a guy operating one of the handicap helper golf carts had never heard of them or any orders and he's been doing that for decades.

  4. #44
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Vendors should be using the expo company (at least during prime hours) rather than driving into the exhibit areas.

    We had a vendor on a green machine barrelling down Wittman road at full speed (unsafe even for the heavy pedestrians) who blew a stop sign AND was ignoring the volunteers holding the stop signs up while a Howard was making the crossing there north of the Hangar Cafe. I stepped in front of him to stop him. Fortunately, I was able to snap his picture before he rode off and got it to Vintage security to hunt down. Had I not stopped him, he would have likely nailed the crossing aircraft. He was entirely oblivious to his surroundings.

  5. #45

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    I had a 2 wheeled electric standup scooter I used to get around as I am disabled. I had some issues with security, but most were cool after I pointed out my sticker. I made sure to keep it to the speed of people walking, didn't ride it in any building, and walked it in congested areas, which is EAAs rules. That should apply to all vehicles on the grounds. If not, pull their sticker and ban the vehicle from the grounds.

  6. #46
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazdaP5 View Post

    As for the after airshow crowds heading back into Scholler, I would love a 20-30 minute no vehicle traffic time so that the pedestrians can safely walk back to camp without fear of being run over by vehicle folks trying to drive faster than the speed of the surrounding traffic.
    +1
    Chris Mayer
    N424AF
    www.o2cricket.com

  7. #47
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    Between the City of Oshkosh, Winnebago County Sheriff’s Department and EAA Security did anyone see any traffic enforcement other than directing traffic at congested intersections??? Come on EAA how are you going to deal with the unlit golf carts, mini bikes etc. especially at night? The proliferation of e-bikes that can top out around 30 mph appears to have caught EAA off guard. Unfortunately the road structure of Camp Scholler is just not designed for that level of volume of pedestrian and vehicle traffic. The massive numbers of UTVs, scooters, bikes, etc parked from the Waukau Ave vehicle gate around the Main Gate and beyond the Paul’s Woods Gate was eye watering. While it may have been a record year for attendance, EAA is going to have to do a better job at anticipating and dealing with the issues associated with such numbers. Sorry Jack, for vehicle control you get a grade of D.
    Dave Shaw
    EAA 67180 Lifetime
    Learn to Build, Build to Fly, Fly for Fun

  8. #48

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    While the proliferation of e-bikes might have caught them off guard, the other sorts of off-road vehicles have been a problem for a very long time. Scholler has been a free for all for as long as I've been going. Dirt bikes to entertain the kids is common. There seems to be a competition for who has the most expensive RV and who has the fanciest vehicle to ride to the gates in. Even after a big storm, you don't need a UTV the size of a pickup to go get pancakes. Nor the full bagger Harley you trailered in.

    The EAA needs to not only fix the problem, but explain why they have deliberately done nothing for so many years.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Charpentier View Post
    Work on MOSAIC took up most of our week in Advocacy, and the announcement of the August 2023 NPRM for MOSAIC is actually significant progress. Yes, there is the September 30, 2023 Congressional mandate tied to UAS regulation, but that only applies to the UAS components that have been part of the MOSAIC package.

    An announcement of an NPRM date was by no means guaranteed at the beginning of AirVenture week. Over four days we met with officials from the Department of Transportation and many offices within the FAA including Flight Standards and Aircraft Certification, both of which are key players in the development of MOSAIC. While the details of the rule will continue to be developed over the next months, public comments made during the event by the FAA indicate that the rulemaking will be "narrower" than first envisioned. EAA staff advocated strongly that changes important to EAA members, chief among them those surrounding LSA, remain as part of the slimmed-down rule (in some ways, a simpler rule could help us in the long run). In addition to our meetings, we used AirVenture’s unique setting to show officials the actual airplanes that would be affected by the new rule.

    While not having an NPRM released at this year’s event was frustrating on one level, having a specific date set for an NPRM and the opportunity to advocate one-on-one with the DOT and FAA regarding the benefits that will be gained by MOSAIC highlights the tremendous value of AirVenture and the EAA community.

    Thanks for the information Tom. I attended a forum at Airventure concerning MOSAIC last year and it seems there hasn't been much progress since then. A few comments: Is the EAA working with the FAA more than one week a year? How can I information and updates on the progress being made. Also the comment that the rulemaking will be "narrower" does not sound good and makes me nervous. I will admit that most of what I know about MOSAIC comes from Dan Johnson's articles and videos and I think that is where I heard that there was a deadline of Dec. 31st 2023. I appreciate what the EAA is doing in our behalf, I just wish we could get more information from the EAA or the FAA about what is being proposed or considered.

  10. #50
    EAA Staff Tom Charpentier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmurphy View Post
    Thanks for the information Tom. I attended a forum at Airventure concerning MOSAIC last year and it seems there hasn't been much progress since then. A few comments: Is the EAA working with the FAA more than one week a year? How can I information and updates on the progress being made. Also the comment that the rulemaking will be "narrower" does not sound good and makes me nervous. I will admit that most of what I know about MOSAIC comes from Dan Johnson's articles and videos and I think that is where I heard that there was a deadline of Dec. 31st 2023. I appreciate what the EAA is doing in our behalf, I just wish we could get more information from the EAA or the FAA about what is being proposed or considered.
    Fair question and comment. The short answer is yes, we’re working every week on MOSAIC, through regular check-ins with the staff writing the rule and participating on the ASTM committee that is working to front-load the updates to the consensus standards. AirVenture is when we have all of the executives in one place and with their full attention, and an additional wrinkle this year is that most of the senior people are new in their roles. This was the first good opportunity to voice our priorities to them. Building off of last week, we’ll be following up with senior staff in DC soon.

    “Narrowing” doesn’t necessarily mean that what we want is out of the rule. Remember that MOSAIC started out as a massive, omnibus rule that included UAS, eVTOL, and other stuff in addition to LSA and Sport Pilot. As long as it still includes the latter, and we have no reason to believe it doesn’t, a “narrower” MOSAIC isn’t bad.

    Because of federal laws on active rule writing, there are limits to what the FAA can communicate with us regarding details. You’re correct that we went awhile without communicating concrete updates, but we’ll share as much as we can in the coming months.
    Tom Charpentier
    Government Relations Director
    EAA Lifetime #1082006 | Vintage #722921

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