Glad to have met you guys. We'll do the same.
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As someone with elderly parents myself, I'm very sorry to hear this, Ron. Apart from the deaths it causes, the isolation and loneliness, particularly of elderly and vulnerable people, has to be the cruelest part of the pandemic. I hope your Dad can get some effective help, and more meaningful visits from family and friends, very soon.
Darn, been a while since I visited the group. Just thought wonder if anybody is thinking about Osh21. Yikes, quite a bit to read.
I'll stay optimistic, but this thread sure put a damper on that.
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Covid 19 has put on damper on "Life as we used to know it" to be sure. In truth my sole optimism as a 71yr old retiree for living a 'new normal' anytime before I eventually die arises from appreciating the sheer talent and brilliance of pharmaceutical researchers and their highly profit based companies who WILL develop VERY profitable, full functioning vaccines and other palliatives to combat this disease and its symptoms.
I get a flu shot every year and thanks to that limited protection and great symptom relieving meds I really don't 'worry' about the flu killing me or putting me on a ventilator in an ICU. When the same can be said for this new virus? Life and society at large WILL blissfully move on and internationally attended events WILL again happen...... along with schools, restaurants, movie theaters, sports arenas etc.etc.etc. being allowed to function.
Well I guess living in a, very, small town has it up side, (I wouldn't have it any other way). I'm 74 and my life hasn't changed at all, we get together with family, shake hands and hug, no mask, but if someone wanted to wear one, that's fine too. I still get together with the group at the airport, no hugs though, mainly fist bumps, and we sit in the same room and eat pizza from the same box, or go out to a restaurant and all sit together, normally. Shopping at the big box stores, and the little home town hardware stores, for the most part is the same. If the store has a sign that requires a mask, I generally put one on, sometimes I will take if off after seeing the majority of people not wearing one. I see people wearing mask in their cars, ridding bicycles and walking alone and no one is within 50 feet of them. I believe the virus is real but I don't consider it, "The Plague" and I do take some precautions, same as I would for the flu, but a vaccine that's been rushed through, I think I'll hold off on that. The fact that Bill Gates is pushing for everyone to get vaccinated makes me wonder, what does he know about immunology??? BUT, if A/V 2021 is on, I plan on being there, if I have to sign a waiver, so be it.
Bob
"Well I guess living in a, very, small town has it up side, "......... Heath Springs, SC pop ~1000, Lancaster County pop ~ 100k 3,095 cases with 19 added in the last day, 64 deaths, You are indeed isolated a bit but so was No and So Dakota and Wyoming. As you know many of the current cases are from gatherings of friends and family. Be safe Bob. Hope to see you a AV__(?)
Jim, I'm not a dare devil, but I don't think everybody I see is a Covid carrier either. I am almost positive I had Covid last January, really bad for about 2 weeks, but I never thought I was goning to die. Getting sick occasionally is part of life and we just deal with it. There are a lot of things in this world that can kill you and people die everyday from them, but my focus is on living. I finally own an airplane that I can fly anytime I want, so I think more about living and enjoying what time I have left on this earth, and sky, than I do about dying. mbalexander, glad you have plenty of work, more money for A/V! Perhaps we will meet up at Oshkosh next year.
Bob
Bob, the good news you probably didn’t have COVID back in January. The virus was just being detected in December/January and all those cases were associated with air travel. Community transfer didn’t really take hold until late January/February and that started on the west coast.
Not sure I agree with your small town theory. We have a cabin in Wisconsin and the county population is just over 50k yet the number of deaths has skyrocketed to over 110. Don’t know why. Is it lack of access to medical treatment, the age demographics of the population or something else?? Just glad we closed up and headed south before things got out of control.
Probably a byproduct on how hard COVID hit the more-populous states. All the emphasis in the first three months was how bad it was in New York, New Jersey, California, etc. It certainly was possible that those in more rural environments saw COVID as a heavy-population issue.
Combine that with rural areas being more conservative, and many people believing that wearing masks/social distancing was something only liberals did. This is basically what I think happened in North Dakota, my home state, and is probably why it currently leads the world in the number of infections vs. population size.
This is interesting. It gives a time/history of individual states' COVID rates, stepping through day-by-day since June. Each state's bar indicates its political bent.
https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june
Couple that, sadly, with less medical infrastructure in rural areas. Living in the Seattle area, I've got three major hospitals within 15 minutes of me, and massive medical resources within the county. Rural America has problems retaining medical staff (can't pay off student loans at a small country hospital) and the facilities themselves are smaller. So when it DOES hit, they can't handle it as well.
Ron Wanttaja
Am I the only one here who just wants to know one way or another? It's the uncertainty that is most annoying.
I’m not holding my breath
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I'm not holding my breath either, but, I'm still making plans to go.
Bob
I have my humble motel room safely booked and the Tram Bosses know my conducting schedule availability as always so I 'plan' on being there.... just like I 'planned' for this year. Global availability of a viable vaccine may well be key to the AirVenture decision so I have my doubts for 2021. I have NO idea if there will be sufficient doses available for all the people in the USA, let alone all who would normally travel to Wisconsin from the rest of the globe.
So did you just ride around in the back of a city bus making bad jokes or what?Quote:
just like I did last year.
He saves the good jokes for the city bus...we get the bad ones..........
I really hope it happens this year. I'm of the younger variety of airplane geeks, so my family and I will be there if it's open.......but I do understand that others will have to make a different decision based on their own health status.
The national authorities say that anyone that wants a vaccination should be able to get one by June. At that point, one can assume that anyone who DOESN'T get vaccinated is accepting the risk. That's close enough to EAA's decision point that they should be able to judge whether to schedule the show.
Be interesting to see what happens to Sun-N-Fun, though.
Ron Wanttaja
I'm expecting SNF to cancel. I've actually never been, but I'd be sad to see them cancel. OSH is an unknown. If I had an extra dollar, I'd probably put it on the cancel side, but I'd risk 99 cents on the go side.....
I was actually surprised that EAA made the statement this far out. Personally I don’t think the vaccine availability/acceptance is going to happen in time to reduce the COVID numbers to permit large crowd events. Will also be interesting to see just where Wisconsin’s governor comes down on this issue next Spring. He could play the role of the great spoiler:(
Pretty soon we may be meeting in basements and barns like the French Underground.
Bob
I think I've correctly corrected my incorrect sentence to make a little more sense? But..............
If I have $5 in one pocket and $5 in the other pocket, what do I have?
Someone else's pants on.
or.....
How do you know if it’s a bull or a milk cow?
It’s either one or the udder.
or......
What do you call a can opener that doesn’t work?
A can’t opener!
and finally.... for now.....
My technology impaired friend told me they are finally going to get into those new-fangled 'computer things' they've been hearing about for decades now and went out on their own and bought themselves an Apple.
I asked "What kind?"
They told me "Granny Smith.".... It's gonna be an uphill climb......
Availability is certainly up in the air right now; we're being told that everyone who wants the vaccine will be able to get it by June, but A) These are government people talking, and B) Their lips are moving.
Acceptance? Hmmm. I think we'll see some legislative action to prevent lawsuits if one catches COVID after refusing a vaccine. I think the push will be on to vaccinate everyone WORKING at AirVenture, but other than clear warnings, they probably won't require visitors to be vaccinated.
The problem EAA has is trying to estimate attendance. There are still going to be a lot of people reluctant to join in large groups, and we still don't know when the international travel bands will end.
Once a vaccine is generally available, I think the push towards "normalcy" is going to overwhelming. The rates will start dropping, and the states will re-open. Hopefully, it'll be timed well enough so that the vaccine prevents another spike.
Ron Wanttaja
Have to agree with Ron. We could have distribution starting this month based on approvals at FDA. CDC just put out a plan of distribution - and without "administration involvement" it actually might happen. Based on that it looks like the general population [US] might have full access by June/July My concern is the international travelers access and the seemingly 30% of the US population that is currently apposed to getting it. That places us at fall before enough herd immunity protects those not vaccinated. I have family at J&J who are a bit further down the curve but are testing a vaccine that is single dose and not requiring super freezers that will be much easier for distribution. I am infinitely frustrated that this pandemic was so egregiously dismissed here in the US.
Your papers, please. .....Mein herr your papers are not in order!
G'day Jim and other EAAers.
I don't believe that any of the manufacturers of the current crop of vaccines are claiming that their vaccine will prevent infection by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, just that it will prevent severe, and potentially life-threatening, illness after infection. That is, anyone who is vaccinated can still be infected by the virus and spread it to others. I understand that herd immunity will only be achieved once a vaccine can prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection. As I have previously stated, I'm not a virologist, so I'd be happy to be corrected by anyone who is qualified.
Sadly, I think that it is highly likely that Osh. '21 will be cancelled. I hope that you all stay safe and healthy.
Cheers from Australia.
Pfizer press release:
"Primary efficacy analysis demonstrates BNT162b2 to be 95% effective against COVID-19 beginning 28 days after the first dose;170 confirmed cases of COVID-19 were evaluated, with 162 observed in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group"
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...vid-19-vaccine
Perhaps you're thinking of the report on the effectiveness of the Moderna vaccine. They report a similar effectiveness of around 94%, PLUS the remaining 6% who did develop COVID had mild cases rather than severe ones.
"Vaccine efficacy against COVID-19 was 94.1%; vaccine efficacy against severe COVID-19 was 100%"
https://investors.modernatx.com/news...e-3-cove-study
Ron Wanttaja
Hey Ron, many thanks for your response and the hyperlinks 👍
Apologies if my previous post was so poorly written that the intended message was not clear. My Year 9 English teacher would be very disappointed with my performance.
Covid-19 is the disease that results from a SARS-CoV-2 virus infection. The vaccines will prevent the disease developing after someone one is infected by the SARS-CoV-2 virus. I cannot recall any of the manufacturers claiming that their vaccine will prevent the virus from infecting a vaccinated person.
Stay safe.
The CDC has released information as to the cards those receiving vaccines will be issued:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/healt...ard/index.html
Of course, they'll be easy to forge....
Ron Wanttaja
My doc told me it would be probably be May/June timeframe for the average folks to get a vaccination.
So what is the timing between doses? Can’t seem to find the answer on that. Interesting that the card had lines for up to four entries. Are they telegraphing something we don’t know? Also reading that several carriers and the IATA are kicking around the idea of a vaccination passport for international traveler.
The real question is this all gonna happen in time to save AV2021.
Given that most EAA'ers are members of the Silent and Boomer generations, we will be vaccinated by 1Q 2021. Let's hear it for Silent-Boomer-Venture '21. ;););)
That's how I thought until I caught the swine flu many years ago. It was the sickest I have ever been. Now, I get a flu shot every year and have never caught the flu. I'll be ready for the coronavirus vaccine as soon as I can get it. I'm 73 years old now and want to see few more AirVentures (have never missed one since 1985) before I fly West. And, NO, I did not miss one this year because they did not have one to miss, but I still bought the T shirt.
The speculation on all of this is whether national is willing to roll the dice hoping for distribution and effectiveness by mid July. In addition, are we able to have enough early birds to get the grounds and facilities up to par starting in June? The most recent relief act includes exemption from liability litigation for businesses - the one that will be in McConnell's hands. It will not be an easy decision. I was able to make AV19 and feel lucky at that.