C47/DC3 info

I'm looking for someone that has either or both, ownership or maintainence experience with C47's and DC3's. I'm in need of operation costs and maintainence requirement info. I've been asked to help someone buy and then operate one of these old airplanes and just don't have any background knowledge of them. I am an A&P/IA and a high time Multi-Engine driver but need help with this. Please either respond to this post or email me at johnr@andycable.com
We're not looking for a pilot to fly it but if you've flown one for a while let me hear from you.

Is this going to be used for a commercial (i.e., Part 135) operation?

Try going on line to the DC3 web site. Also you should be aware that if the DC3 has too many (I think 10 or more) passenger seats the airplane will fall under Part 125 which is just as involved as Part 135.

No plans to operate it for pay or hire. I'll have to check into the # of seats and part 125. Thanks

I flew and operated them for 15 years and over 5,500 hours part 91 corporate, part 135,cargo part 121 supplemental and scheduled cargo, part 91 special recovery missions worldwide and skis in Antarctia with the Basler turbo prop DC3TP. Also over 1800 hours of instruction given under Baslers 135/121 program. If the DC-3 has a heavy enough empty Wt. You can forgo the 125 requirement read (FAR part 125 requirements)and it's usually better for everyone involved. The piston DC-3 is a single pilot aircraft by type certification. HOWEVER if your DC-3 has been modified to the 1830-94 or the 1820-76 and any Higher horsepower engine that includes a geared rudder tab, you will have an FAA approved flight manual that mandates it a 2 pilot aircraft. That also includes The DC-3TP.You will need a type rating in DC-3. But if you have one with small engines your not mandated to do the FAR 61.58 check because 61.58 is for two pilot certified Aircraft. Everyone flies them Two pilot but you can get recurrent with 3 take offs and landings and a current BFR, and your First Officer dosent need to be type rated.Feel free to contact me. I have an A and P, IA and have managed maintenance on a piston corporate DC-3 part 91.

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Originally Posted by DCpaulv64

I flew and operated them for 15 years and over 5,500 hours part 91 corporate, part 135,cargo part 121 supplemental and scheduled cargo, part 91 special recovery missions worldwide and skis in Antarctia with the Basler turbo prop DC3TP. Also over 1800 hours of instruction given under Baslers 135/121 program. If the DC-3 has a heavy enough empty Wt. You can forgo the 125 requirement read (FAR part 125 requirements)and it's usually better for everyone involved. The piston DC-3 is a single pilot aircraft by type certification. HOWEVER if your DC-3 has been modified to the 1830-94 or the 1820-76 and any Higher horsepower engine that includes a geared rudder tab, you will have an FAA approved flight manual that mandates it a 2 pilot aircraft. That also includes The DC-3TP.You will need a type rating in DC-3. But if you have one with small engines your not mandated to do the FAR 61.58 check because 61.58 is for two pilot certified Aircraft. Everyone flies them Two pilot but you can get recurrent with 3 take offs and landings and a current BFR, and your First Officer dosent need to be type rated.Feel free to contact me. I have an A and P, IA and have managed maintenance on a piston corporate DC-3 part 91.

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Thanks, very good information. I've talked to someone who gave rating training and was told that DC3s required two pilots. Thanks for the clarification. Can you explain the "geared rudder tab" issue? I've heard that fuel burn is from 70 to 100 GPH. What's your opinion? What about engine longevity and overhaul cost? Safe Runway Requirements? How hard to find liability insurance? Pilot experience for insurance?

DCpaul is absolutely correct about part 125. You have to get the empty weight up so the the maximum payload is less than 6000 lb. We however have not been much help about operating costs. On the "DC-3 Hangar" web site there is a breakdown of costs in the year 2000. The numbers are interesting. The fixed cost, including the purchase cost of the airplane was $88,000. The hourly cost shown was $495 per hour. This at 2000 gas prices.
Safe runway? New to the airplane. I would suggest 5000 ft. What would DCpaul think?

They burn a tad under 100 GPH and Fuel cost vary with location. 5000' is fine for runway for any one. If your pilots can't handle a 12 knot gusty crosswind in a J-3 or similar, Don't let em fly your 3. Make sure your hoses are in good condition. Cover your intakes or pull the manifold heat on if parked outside in the spring. (starlings love to nest in them) Preheat if engine and oil temps are below 40F. If you have a janitrol heater, consider leaving it on even if your way to warm. The last 2 hours of the trip seam like 10 at -10F in the cockpit. Sump Sump Sump it and know where your main strainers are some have em in the wheel well, and can be located in the wing under snap covers. Just a few tidbits.

A good source of information would be Everts Air in Fairbanks, Alaska. They operate a C47 and several other piston pounders on regular cargo routes year round here. 907 450-2300/2350/2375. They also have many resources for upkeep of these great birds.

I've gotten personal emails from a number of you with quite a bit of experience, thanks! I've been sharing this with the interested, potential owner. I think he's listening. Again, thanks and keep the comments coming.

My insurance broker, Lance Toland near Atlanta, has owned and flown a DC-3 for a number of years. Last year at Osh there were about 25 flown in. Also the CAF at Burnet has operated one for years. One of the finest ones that I have seen is the one Continental restored to full airline passenger status some years back, flew it for a number of years and then donated it to the Lone Star Museum in Galveston. They have flown it, but don't think they do often.
I am surprised to see 5000 feet listed as a safe runway lenght. Perhaps that is true if it is a heavily loaded C-47, but I can't imagine a normal 3 flown by a good pilot needing that much.

I read a magazine article some years ago about a veteran of lot's of C-47 flying out on the west coast, maybe in Mexico also. He served a lot of areas with sort or unpaved strips, I think some were under 2000 feet. He said his procedure was to go up at altitude while enroute and do a stall or at least approach to a stall in landing configuration, and note the airspeed. This gave him the exact figure for that plane, that day , with that loaded weight, not just a general figure in a manual. Then he would add his 1.3 or 1.2 to give his final approach speed, and he had no problem landing in some out of the way places.
I am not sure, but I sort of recall him saying he made 3 point landings, as I say this has been a long time since I read it. I know you almost always see wheel landings in the DC-3. I have only a little time in them, wish I had a full rating. I really admire the 3, certainly the finest all around airplane ever built. And the proportions are great, it still looks like an airplane, not a space ship.