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Do you own or fly out of a grass strip? I am wondering what steps are necessary/recommended to convert a plain old field into a safe landing strip for an RV style aircraft?
I am based out of wisconsin and wonder what grass holds up the best? Should it have a crown for drainage? How long should the grass be cut?
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallda
One step is to send the 7460-1 form to the FAA. Flight can't possibly happen unless the paperwork is in order. :)Quote:
I am wondering what steps are necessary/recommended to convert a plain old field into a safe landing strip for an RV style aircraft?
The first step is to make sure the soil is sufficiently firm and well drained to support landing aircraft. In our case, we lucked out because the base is pretty much crumbled rock (saprolite, aka rotten granite). This gives us a firm well-drained base. You then want to establish a pretty good turf. In your case, you'll want a cold climate, high traffic grass like one of the Tall Fescue cultivars like Gazelle II. You're going to cut it as recommended for a lawn, 2 1/2-3"
We're in a warm climate, so we've got mostly Bermuda grass.
Google is your friend. Found a real nice document on turf runway constructions written by someone in Texas but I found it on a Montana state page...
https://www.mdt.mt.gov/aviation/docs...sign-guide.pdf
Thank you very much FlyingRon!Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRon
All you have to do is make sure local zoning allows for it. You don't have to tell the FAA anything unless you want to and if you want your airport named, charted, inspected, etc. Most states aviation depts have something similar. The hardest part is to keep the rodents that dig and tunnel out, keeping the frost heaving in check and keeping the grass mowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallda
This is usually the hardest part.Quote:
Originally Posted by martymayes
This is INCORRECT. You must file the 7480-1 (I got the form number wrong in my initial post, that one was for mods to an existing airport) 90 days prior to establishing the airport except in the cases of certain lightly used temporary facilities (this exception was added because some yahoo at the FAA decided to interpret the reg to require every temporary helicopter landing site to require notificadtion).Quote:
You don't have to tell the FAA anything unless you want to and if you want your airport named, charted, inspected, etc'
You fill out the form (you can indeed mark whether you want it charted or not). What you don't need is the FAA approval. Your responsibility is ended when you send them the notice. They'll send back a determination as to whether they think the airport is a good idea or not but it's not binding on you. The worst thing they can do is mark it OBJECTIONABLE in the records.
I can't speak to the establishment part, as I bought an existing property with a 2700 X 80 turf runway. Mine is charted and designated Private, but we let anyone land here that chooses. MN has specific language for private airstrips in our statutes for recreational use land that protects us from liability for the most part. Not sure if WI has similar language or not but would be something to check on if you plan to let others use the strip.
As for maintenance, we mow ours about every 7-10 days to 2 1/2" high. It takes about 2.5 hours to mow with a 6' mower (would like a bigger mower, but they cost more than an entry level plane!) It gets rolled every spring with a big roller to smooth out the bumps. We get enough moisture in SE MN to not need to worry about irrigation and it pretty much stays green all season without any help. We don't fertilize (who wants to mow even MORE!). We have had visiting pilots comment that they couldn't tell that the wheels were down, so it's possible to have a really smooth turf without a lot of effort. Our site is on pretty sandy soil, so it drains well. We don't have any crown designed in, but haven't needed it. If you have heavier, or clay soils you might want to think about drainage tile or contour to prevent wet spots from hanging around. We have to fill in badger and fox holes about 2-3 times a season, but otherwise it's just mowing and flying.
If you ever want to drop in, let me know, we like visitors. The more interesting the plane the better (rides are encouraged but not required).
Patrick Sween
7MN3
507-923-5128
Attachment 5470
The first step is to fill out a govt form? .
WOW
One step is to send the 7460-1 form to the FAA. Flight can't possibly happen unless the paperwork is in order. :)
The first step is to make sure the soil is sufficiently firm and well drained to support landing aircraft. In our case, we lucked out because the base is pretty much crumbled rock (saprolite, aka rotten granite). This gives us a firm well-drained base. You then want to establish a pretty good turf. In your case, you'll want a cold climate, high traffic grass like one of the Tall Fescue cultivars like Gazelle II. You're going to cut it as recommended for a lawn, 2 1/2-3"
We're in a warm climate, so we've got mostly Bermuda grass.
Google is your friend. Found a real nice document on turf runway constructions written by someone in Texas but I found it on a Montana state page...
https://www.mdt.mt.gov/aviation/docs...sign-guide.pdf[/QUOTE]
Did you not note the little smiley face on that comment? Even without it, the second statement is hard to interpret as anything other than sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by raytoews
That doesn't change the fact that the construction notice is legally required. It's a trivial one page form to fill out and mail off.
I have to disagree. We have lots of grass strips up here that the FAA and the state has no knowledge of. It can be a zoning issue, but out in the rural areas there is no zoning. A guy just clears, grades out enough clear space, and lands his or her airplane. Not a big deal. Out in WY, I noticed that away from the towns, which is most of the state, some folks just land on the county road and taxi onto their front lawns. The roads are long and straight and you can see coming traffic miles away.
Don't assume that my neighborhood is the same as yours.
Best of luck,
Wes
N78PS
We have 4000'x100'. It takes about 3 hrs to mow with a 6' deck. The grass will depend on location. Our does have a crown. If you do not have clay dirt put down a few layers of gravel. After a few years the grass will grow over it and no one will know its gravel. We have a couple roads here on the 100+ acres that are like this. The runway is mostly clay. Stays green most years all summer.
There are rules and regulations. They are published by the FAA. Depending on how your airfield is classified will depend on the regs you will follow. This has to do with gradient from the side of the runway so many feet out and things like this. Without looking up the actual numbers it has to do with so many feet out you must go up a foot. Meaning you can not have a tree right next to the side of the runway. There are even regs as to the ends of said runway. We just had an FAA inspector here a few months ago. He hit us on a couple area's that I speak of.
We also had a man who flew from his road in front of his house for decades. It was one of those long country roads were you could see for miles. He kept his airplane in his barn. He is gone today, but I believe the airplane is still in the barn.
I also know a man who flies ultralights out of his front yard. He mowed a 700'x40' strip in his front yard and flies from that. No one says a word.
Tony
I am a lifer here in WY and I have never seen that. I do know you can access BLM land, and that Montana does allow it in certain circumstances. I am about as remote as a human can be, the smallest ranch nearby, discounting town ( if you can call it that) is in the neighborhood of 15000 acres. Anyone who operates aircraft around me runs them off private strips or the public airports. I have never heard of anyone mentioning using public roadways. Of course my county has three sheriffs and a couple of highway patrolmen and is larger that the state of RI, so it may be just a case of no harm no foul if it does occur. Honestly I can't see why you couldn't do it safely as you are correct the highway outside my spread has a section that is ARROW straight and flat for 16 miles, 4 lanes and baby butt smooth, no power lines anywhere in sight. ( ok now I am going to have to investigate this lol I will keep you advised)Quote:
Originally Posted by WLIU
Rick
I recall that I was out somewhere between Laramie and Cheyenne when I drove past a C-172 in the front yard of a place. I might have been headed up to the Sybille Canyon wildlife facility....
Best of luck,
Wes
N78PS
Same here and when I asked the FSDO they told me my operations were excluded from notification requirements. No form needed. I'm certainly not going to argue with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by WLIU
It's got nothing whatsoever to do with the "neighborhood" Wes. It's right there in the FARs. 157.3 requires NOTIFICATION to the FAA. You don't have to have their approval, but if you fail to notify them you have busted the regs. This is true everywhere in the United States. The only exceptions are for airports of a specific time-limited purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by WLIU
I can't vouch for your FSDO, but they are clearly wrong. You don't deal with the FDSO on this. It goes to the Airport District Office.
I've been picking away at clearing a 1475' X 75' piece of land for a driveway access to the rear of my property. I suppose "someone " could operate a plane from it as there are no zoning considerations way out in the county. There are two strips within 5 miles and they are not charted. Who cares.
The EPA cares, for one. The beaver colony at my place have created a good sized pond on the south of my strip...er, driveway and water has found another way to flow to the river. About a thousand feet north, two ditches cross the driveway and head to the river. I can step across them easily. I considered dropping 30 feet of culvert in each one and filling in that part with my tractor.
That is until the EPA filed its Clean Water Rule last June in the federal register and its now included in "The Waters of the US' as "tributaries". Yes, I talked to an Atty that deals in this. I could destroy the beaver dams, but I'm sort of attached to them. I do have other options within 5 miles.
p.s. I meant to say that the ditches are "now included as tributaries."
The idea of registering my "driveway" has never crossed my mind.
The EPA has extrapolated both the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act far beyond scientific reason in response to the whims of the executive branch. (And not just the current administration.) But blame Congress. They are the ones who wrote and passed the original laws as well as the revisions, and delegated / abrogated their responsibility to an executve branch department. Unfortunately, the third branch is too busy implementing its own version of social engineering to protect us from the EPA and Congress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dingley
BJC
If you want to call it a driveway or a field that's fine. If you call it an airport NOTICE needs to be given.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dingley
What kind of plane is in the barn? I'm always looking for that special barn find! (940) 390 3644cQuote:
Originally Posted by 1600vw
I did the paperwork, got the Prairie Cottage Airport, 8KS8, on the charts, even got a radio license to operate a unicom. Thought everything was fine. I never even thought about zoning until the local county Government got a letter from the Feds asking for information on the number of handicap restrooms and parking spaces available at the County's new airport. Worked out in the end as I begged forgiveness and my neighbors came to the hearing to make sure I got my airport zoning. Cant stress enough the importance of giving rides to your neighbors and gifting them with neat aerial photo blowups of their property.
Handled the handicap restroom and parking areas by putting up a handicap parking sign and including a picture of the 2400 ft hedge row available to relieve ones self, no stairs and you can pull up and park the entire length. Sent it all off over 12 years ago and never heard another word. I hope it got passed around the office and the clerk grinned when he filed it.
Its important to know how to work the system. In NH, a friendly legislator sponsored a bill to make aviation and approved land use. Takes care of local issues with flying from your land. Our airport is "private". No public facilities. And when I went for a building permit, I built a "barn" to store my airplane in. There was no box on the form for "airplane hangar" and I did not ask. I checked the "barn" box. Later, an enthusiastic overachiever new neighbor felt the need to tell the building inspector that he was building an "airplane hangar" and the result was a trip into the code for commercial buildings and a huge increase in cost. His neighbors took note and avoid that mistake.
There is very little to be gained by having your "flying field" on the chart. Having a transient crash in your front yard because they thought they would impress themselves by demonstrating their short field skills will convince you of that. You can give your friends your GPS coordinates.
Best of luck,
Wes
I don't have a runway, or strip, I just have a long mowed back yard. :D
We were just building accessory structures until someone got around to reading the state building code at our county office. This was spurred by the fact that they inadvertently approved a massive hangar on one of the neighboring lots. Your choices are to either build a "residential hangar" (no more than 2000 sf in the aircraft parking area) or build your structure to commercial standards. I reduced my 3000sf hangar floor space by quickly adding a workshop and some closets (built with nonstructural walls) in the back of mine. Once you're down in the "residential" category, you really don't have any different construction requirements than those for your car garage (1 hour fire wall...typically a double layer of drywall...if it adjoins living space).
A residential hangar is actually less restricted than an accessory building. There are special requirements when you build accessory buildings near the edge of your property that don't apply to the residential hangar.
Many states use the same basic building code that includes the reference to a residential hangar. A careful read of the revision in place in Florida in 2008 showed that the code was silent about non-commercial hangars larger then the size specified for a residential hangar. If you find a permit writer who can read, comprehend, and reason, it is possible to get a permit for a larger hangar without having to meet all of the commercial criteria. The code (at that time) did not prohibit it, but it did not explicitly say "You may ..."Having a contractor who has worked closely and collaboratively with the permit writer is a huge plus.BJCQuote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRon
Our permit office and inspectors have been real good. Our state (NC) code is based on the 2009 IBC, so you are right it's common with a lot of places. The IBC is far from silent about hangars that don't meet the residential definition. Such hangars are in Storage Group S. Hangars that meet the residential requirements are in Group U (essentially the same as barns, car garages, sheds, and stables).
My biggest issue was with Zoning. They passed several ordinances about the time we started construction primarily to stomp on single wide mobile homes. One of which requires the front door to be parallel to the street. I guess this is to keep people from putting mobile homes in sideways on skinny lots. The problem is that our front door (and the hangar and garage doors) face the taxiway while our street address is 200' away on a road perpendicular to the taxiway. The problem child zoning enforcement guy cancelled all my permits (including my septic approval) because the plans weren't in compliance. We had a sit down and drew a little nook on the front of my house so I could place the door 90 degrees to the front of the house (it faces the side of the garage so you enter through an alcove...actually more fitting with the Frank Lloyd Wright style of the house) and that made them happy.
A year later when we were getting the CO they want to know where my front door is. I show them. They say that faces another part of the house. I say it only has to be parallel with the street (in fact many of our neighborhood houses are "backwards" on the lot so the front door faces the runway not the street). No problem, the inspector says, I'll just call this other door your front door. So as far as the building department is concerned my front door is the one that leads out onto a deck then you go through a screen porch down steps to another deck down more steps to a patio and then down more steps to my back yard....
Just saw an item on the daily AOPA newsletter. It seems that a new OK state law prohibits a wind turbine to be installed within a mile and half from any school, hospital or AIRPORT. There is a spate of new applications for farm strips to be charted. It says that a few of the new "airport managers" are even pilots. Some are not.Careful of were you land in Oklahoma, it may be an airport in name only.