Choosing the right one

I have been a Private pilot for two years with 150 hours. but I just can not afford to rent any more and I am moving away form the family hanger. I am looking at getting an ultralight that can get me off the ground. I just want to fly! The only requirement is it must have 2 seats so I can take a friend up for sight seeing. I weigh 170 lb. I have a budget of $8000. So it will be older and used and I do like the idea of experimental as I am a mechanic and am building a Cozy MK IV.

I am leaning Powered parachute as I can drive it to any field. But renting a small hanger is not out of the question. I am looking for 2 things.

1. What would you suggest (fixed wing, PPG, etc)
2. What concerns and problems should I be thinking of when purchasing, training, insuring etc?

I've flown for over 45 years and have flown supersonic fighter-type aircraft, 4-engine jet transports, and a wide variety of GA aircraft. I began flying powered parachutes 4 years ago and it is the most enjoyable flying I've ever done. With that said, I would not want a PPC to be my only aircraft because of its inherent limitations. You don't go very far at 30 mph and if there's more than a few mph of wind, I don't fly at all. A calm-wind sunrise or sunset flight can be fabulous and I've never taken anyone up in my PPC who didn't thoroughly enjoy it. For me, flying my PPC inexpensively as often as I can is a blast and my fixed wing takes me places and allows me to fly when it's windy. Find an instructor and take an introductory flight and see what it's all about. If you don't like it, you will have had a flight to remember and talk about it. If you like it and want to proceed, get good training and stick with calm winds until you gain experience. PPCs are very easy and fun to fly, but they are also very easy to get into trouble with if you don't respect their limitations. There's a tremendous amount of PPC knowledge available at http://www.ppcflyingforums.com. It's a great sport with a lot of great people. Good luck.
Bob

With just $8000 to play with, I would recommend a partnership or flying club. You will get much more utility our of part ownership of something like a Cherokee or Skyhawk than a powered parachute, which is a recreational vehicle.

I have been up in several different ultralight/ Light Sport aircraft, and have enjoyed them completely. I am not looking to get any ware. just something to get me off the ground and sight see around town. I have even looked into a hot air balloon, but I would like a bit more control. I am not looking for utility I am just looking for enjoyment. In a few years my Cozy will be done and that will take me places I am just looking for a bit of fun in the mean time.

Many years ago I was looking for something to fly just like you are now. There were not that many choices back in 1979, but there are many today. Here is a link to some of those that are for sale: https://www.barnstormers.com/Ultralight,%20$+5000-$9000%20Classifieds.htm You mentioned a hot air balloon, I did also until I realized that they cost a bunch and you need at least two other people willing to come help you launch, follow you around while your in the air, and then recover you. These would have to be good friends since they will not be able to fly with you after dedicating all this work and time. In addition to this you'll probably have to get licensed. There were no powered chutes back then (that I know of) but was glad to have avoided them since they are very limited on when and where they can fly due to wind conditions, as are most ultralights, but not nearly as much with a fixed wing. You can actually get you somewhere if you want to visit a neighbor, land on a mountain top or or simply fly up the river a bit in a fixed wing. I ended up with a Pterodactyl which pleased me very much. Folds nicely for transport and easily hangs from my garage ceiling for storage. I actually transported it on the back of a Toyota Supra and could be flying in roughly 40 minutes from arrival at the airfield, without any help. With a knowledgeable helper you can cut this in half. It wasn't a two place, but there are plenty of other "fixed" wing ultralights that are. Of course you realize that there are actually no legal 2 place ultralights for personal use, but there are still plenty of them out there for those willing to bend the rules a bit. Enjoy your self, be careful.

I was wondering how long into the thread it would be before someone would bring up the legality part. For the uninitiated, circa 2008, the FAA required all 2 seat "ultralight trainers" to be "upgraded" to LSAs and receive an N number, or be forever grounded. And there was a cut-off date for this to happen. There are lots of "2 seat ultralights" still on ebay/barnstormers/etc, but they aren't legal ultralights, and can not be turned into LSAs because they missed the cut-off date. While I haven't heard of anyone being charged with flying an illegal ultralight since this occurred (has anyone?), the fine in $10,000. And I have no idea what could happen to a certificated pilot's ticket for being caught flying an illegal ultralight.

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Originally Posted by Ken Finney

There are lots of "2 seat ultralights" still on ebay/barnstormers/etc, but they aren't legal ultralights, and can not be turned into LSAs.... And I have no idea what could happen to a certificated pilot's ticket for being caught flying an illegal ultralight.

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That's very important if buying used. There are plenty of 2 seaters out there for sale with N-numbers on them. But, without a valid E-LSA Airworthiness Certificate they are only worth the value of the parts. There are some illegal non-registered 2-seaters flying in remote areas. The big problem would occur if someone got hurt. It would result in ugly lawsuit settlements and expensive enforcement actions.

Some of the unregestered two seaters, uncertificated pilots, have been approached by the FAA. I do not know of any fines. There are ways to register and fly the ones that missed the deadline but there are limitations.

Be sure to look into WSC trikes. There should be some in your price range and two seats are common. They handle more wind than PPC but do not transport as easily. I recommend the slow ones. They are more fun.

QUOTE
1. What would you suggest (fixed wing, PPG, etc)
2. What concerns and problems should I be thinking of when purchasing, training, insuring etc?[/QUOTE]

what about gliders? Usually through a club and some work getting the gliders ready, but you could fly for hours "free" (no gas cost,...).

How about a Challenger 2 (Quad City Challenger)? You can find them on Barnstormers pretty much all the time in your price range. It would get you some decent speed, 2 seats and around a 500 lbs useful load.

I agree with the Challenger 2, this would be a good choice. My cousin owns one and it has shown itself to be a safe, reliable, and cheap ride.

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Originally Posted by Sarahsliefie

I am looking at getting an ultralight that can get me off the ground. I just want to fly! The only requirement is it must have 2 seats so I can take a friend up for sight seeing. I weigh 170 lb. I have a budget of $8000. So it will be older and used and I do like the idea of experimental as I am a mechanic and am building a Cozy MK IV.

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This is from the Yahoo Quicksilver forum. Would probably be in your price range.

"See it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSMsq...re=c4-overview add three years wear and tear since the video... located far western N.C. registered EAB in 1984 call my cell if intrested (706)-897-8667"

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I disagree with the Challenger II. I have seen to many of them that needed a lot of work to get them to fly right. If this is the sort of machine you want I have information on what I call a "poor mans cub" that you should consider. It is a great little plane near Pittsburgh PA. My favorite and priced to sell. PM or call me before you purchase the Challenger.

I would have mentioned it earlier but it is above your $8,000 limit posted earlier.

I was in this boat too: bugged out of renting due to costs. I did similar research, too. That said, $8000 leaves not a lot of room for maneuvering. I had $12,000 and I ended with a Carlson and $50/month covered parking. At that price I could've gotten a Kitfox with 582. Anything less, and I would start looking at Quicksilvers.

A weight-shift is something to consider too.

As far as Challengers go, I know someone who is flying a single-seater with a 503. It gets the job done. However, his cockpit is ridiculously tight. Not sure if every one of them is like that.

I can fit into an E-LSA Kolb, which seems like a nice option.

Still, finding a flyable Challenger or Kolb at $8000 is difficult, at least in my opinion. I'm not a savvy shopper.