Request for next year

I thought I was the only one to notice the lack of porta potties in key places until I read the thoughtful letter from Carl Orton.

The potties, even little smelly plastic ones, are a necessary part of Airventure and this year there were less of them and even more important there were less where they were needed.

They should be in the places WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE, and that was pretty much not the case. For instance, I walked all the way around the vendor hangar D and not only were they not there, I couldn't even see them in the distance. I had to ask someone and walk west to the far side of the outdoor fly market to find a bank of them. Later I was at the FAA forum room, and once again none were there, if you walk southeast a ways there were some all bunched together. It's is nice to have access to them before going into a forum, but again they weren't anywhere near the Honda buildings. Having to walk a ways is inconvenient if you are trying to catch two forums in a row, or to do some extended shopping. Why make it harder for customers to buy something?

People are also at the restaurants, and in the other world restaurants are required to have toilets, but not at EAA, not at the north 40 cafe. People are also at the tram stops, but again, no potties. I got off the tram at the north 40 to catch the bus around 9-27 to my plane, and had to ask someone, then walk a ways west and then back to the bus stop. Also not at the big turn around tram hub just west of the tower. Once I rode the tram all the way from warbirds down to ultralights and part way back, maybe 12 stops and passed porta-potties, but sure not at the tram stops.

I am pretty sure they were in more places in past years. What happened? Is this a wrong headed move to save money, or make the grounds look less cluttered?

If so, not a good idea.

The saying, I think from Easy Rider, was "Don't Bogart that joint", so nowadays it should be "Don't Bogart that john!"

I noticed that also. The other thing that was evident in the campground was the fine print on the request to have your camper tanks dumped. In past years it was a flat $25. This year is was $25 "per tank". PLUS, if you wanted water, another $25. So to have a grey and black tank dumped, and get H2o, $75!!! Then they promised next day service after you paid them. Most people I talked to (as a volunteer in the campground) waited 4 days, some never got the service and lost their money. We were told the person who coordinated this in the past from Waste Management retired this past year. No excuse!

Sometime during the week the pump out policy changed to $25 per connection. We have three tanks, one black and two grey and all were done with one $25 fee. We did get next day service.

My daughter and I also spent an inordinate amount of time searching for toilets. Here's a hint: If you can't put the toilet symbols on the pocket-sized map because they are all over, that's just barely enough for 100,000 people wandering around Airventure on Wednesday or Saturday. I think there were enough toilets the other days, they were just in big banks instead of scattered around like they were in previous years.

One small complaint. The food vendor, Sodexo, had good coffee but no real half & half. They had the powered stuff and the fake half & half which is just the powdered stuff premixed with water - yuk! A&W also had a food stand and did have half & half. Unfortunately, A&W's coffee was lousy. Like I said, it's a small complaint but finding real half & half in Wisconsin of all places shouldn't be a problem.

I thought the toilet placement was weird too.

My last complaint - let people rides their bikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the grounds not just in the camping areas. Honestly, it's ridiculous. Cars, scooters, golf carts all whizzing around as though the people driving them had some specialized driving skills. I can fly a plane but I can't ride a bike.

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Originally Posted by Dave

~snip~ My last complaint - let people rides their bikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the grounds not just in the camping areas. Honestly, it's ridiculous. Cars, scooters, golf carts all whizzing around as though the people driving them had some specialized driving skills. I can fly a plane but I can't ride a bike.

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This...

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Originally Posted by Dave

One small complaint. The food vendor, Sodexo, had good coffee but no real half & half. They had the powered stuff and the fake half & half which is just the powdered stuff premixed with water - yuk! A&W also had a food stand and did have half & half. Unfortunately, A&W's coffee was lousy. Like I said, it's a small complaint but finding real half & half in Wisconsin of all places shouldn't be a problem.

I thought the toilet placement was weird too.

My last complaint - let people rides their bikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the grounds not just in the camping areas. Honestly, it's ridiculous. Cars, scooters, golf carts all whizzing around as though the people driving them had some specialized driving skills. I can fly a plane but I can't ride a bike.

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What was even worse about the Port-O-Lets this year was the extreme inconsistency in servicing them. In the past, you could count on them being pumped out and cleaned up several times a day. On Saturday (perhaps the biggest airshow day), they appear to have not serviced the ones in the Vintage camping area AT ALL. By the end of the day they were filthy, full, and missing toilet paper.

Artificial coffee enlightener ought to be banned in the "dairy state" but it seems to be a fact of life around the food service venues (not just on field, it happened at some of the off-site places as well).

We need LESS vehicles, not more on the grounds. That includes bikes among everything else.

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Originally Posted by FlyingRon

We need LESS vehicles, not more on the grounds. That includes bikes among everything else.

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qft

I agree with the fewer vehicles. EAA also needs to get stricter about who's using them. On Sunday I saw a family of five using one to ride almost up to the flightline. They had no official ID so I asked if they'd rented the cart (thinking it might be a nice way to get my now-mobility-impaired dad, who started going to the airshow in 1970) around the grounds next year.

The dad of this family told me his UNCLE was one of the exhibitors and loaned them the golf cart. While I appreciate the convenience for him of using it to transport his wife and three small children around, they shouldn't have been using the cart.

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Originally Posted by Dave

let people rides their bikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the grounds not just in the camping areas. Honestly, it's ridiculous. Cars, scooters, golf carts all whizzing around as though the people driving them had some specialized driving skills. I can fly a plane but I can't ride a bike.

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Did you see how many bikes were parked in the bike corral near Exhibit Hangar B? I would estimate about a thousand. Would you really want all those bikes zipping around you all day on the grounds? I would not.

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Originally Posted by MEdwards

Did you see how many bikes were parked in the bike corral near Exhibit Hangar B? I would estimate about a thousand. Would you really want all those bikes zipping around you all day on the grounds? I would not.

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That's a good point but I think it's worth a try. I ride my bike almost every weekend in the summer on the Wildwood, NJ boardwalk. There are thousands of people and hundreds of bikes moving in both directions on the boardwalk. There aren't any cars, buses, golf carts or motorscooters. There's a tram car and an occasional maintenance truck. Many of the riders are small children with poor riding skills. It's crowded and you can't go too fast but it's not a problem.

I can't vouch for the NJ boardwalk, but I've seen it on the California beach trails as well as other Eastern US boardwalks/shorelines and I can tell you it *WOULD* be a problem. Bikes run pedestrians off the trails and smack into stationary objects (lamp posts and railing) with reckless abandon. That would be great at Osh where those stationary objects are expensive and some times irreplaceable aircraft.

What about a few dedicated bike paths with bike parks along the way and at the end? Maybe a couple each in direction - N/S and E/W.

If a biker wanted to ride around the town of Oshkosh for exercise there are likely bike paths, maybe even some along the river or lake that are scenic.
But crowded sidewalks and paths inside Airventure are not the place for it. Many towns like where I live have a lot of bikers, but have rules against riding on the sidewalks.
There is a place for that, but not in crowds, and EAA can be really crowded.
It would be the same if someone wanted to ride motorcycles in the grounds. I know the line guys use scooters, but stay on the grass to guide planes, not riding through people for the most part.