Another American aviation company sold to China!

Glasair Aviation has just been sold to an investor in China.

http://glasair.wordpress.com/2012/07/21/glasair-aviation-acquired-by-mr-fang-tieji-chairman-of-jilin-hanxing-group-co-ltd/

I HAD been considering building a Sportsman 2+2, but, not anymore. Van's, here I come! RV-14?

Glasair joins this partial list of other American aviation companies sold to the Chinese or building planes, engines or parts in China:

Cessna
Cirrus
Continental Motors
Hawker Beechcraft
Mattituck Services (a unit of Continental, subsequently closed)

My answer doesn't fit either category. Ownership does influence my choice, but is only one of many factors in my purchase decision.

I have to be honest and say that I was extremely disappointed at another US company sending their product overseas. It does impact my decisions, quite heavily.
Rick

I'm not in the market for a plane, but I would need to think twice before making such a large purchase.
I think you missed Superior Air Parts from that list.
It looks like the way to save American manufacturing is to take out the labor with robotics and 3D printing. That way the advantage is negated.

Guess we had better all learn to speak Chinese. They will own this country shortly. Damn shame our politicians have allowed us to get to this state of affairs. But we keep voting for the useless peices of crap so I guess we should not complain.

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Originally Posted by vaflier

Guess we had better all learn to speak Chinese. They will own this country shortly. Damn shame our politicians have allowed us to get to this state of affairs. But we keep voting for the useless peices of crap so I guess we should not complain.

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I don't want to come across hard nosed about this, but if people chose American made products over imports this wouldn't be an issue. You and I can make a difference by buying American when the products and prices are similar, or even when the US products are slightly more expensive. In the end, that slightly higher short term expense will pay for itself several times over if the money recirculates in the US economy as opposed to going overseas.

One needs to back up a few steps & understand WHY the climate is such in the USA that a manufacturing business has a hard time staying viable? When it comes to aviation a good part are liability issues, any reform is impossible right now. The same people who push restrictive rules sit in wonder as a plant closes & moves out of the country. There are only a few dots to connect to see the process. Unlike Gov't, a business has to make money once in a while. Sen. Harry Reid grandstanding about Olympic uniforms made in China is just as silly. Extremely silly because he's one who helped push U.S. manufacturers out.

Let's say you are a consumer and go to Walmart to buy clothes for you kids back to school. Do you buy the $39 jacket made in China or maybe Phillipines or do you wish you could pay twice as much for that jacket made by American union labor, making perhpaps 3 times what the teenager in Asia gets?

Most everyone is a patriot until it comes time to pay for it. For the most part, products made in the U S are much more expensive, not just slilghtly. Will you or you kids go work a 12 to 15 hour day in a factory for a few $ an hour, and no pension or other benefits?

It's easy to blame Sen. Reid or whomever is not the party that you favor, but how was it for the 12 years that Bush 1 and 2 were in office? Was there any outsourcing then? Is only one side doing it?
How about other countries, are they doing it also? If so , must not be just on Sen. Reid's shoulders.

I too, like to buy American when I can,and sometimes the quality is better.

It's seems like this conversation gets started with every announcement dealing with foreign investment. What the article says is simply that a Chinese investor has acquired the company. It further says that there are no plans to close any US facility, lay-off any US workers, or start any new Mfg. overseas. What it does say is that he would like to "certify" the Sportman 2+2. Now we all know that certification is a costly process and maybe, just maybe, Glasair couldn't afford to do this without additional capital. We know that China has more $$ then they can spend at home and like any good businessmen they look for opportunities with good growth forecasts. The US mfg'r have been "outsourcing" for years because China has the fastest growing market in the world, with a lot more growth potential than the USA. The article doesn't say anything about building or distributing Glasair product to China, only that Glasair has a worldwide customer base. Could Mr. Tieji have better access to the emerging aircraft market in China, then say some US Investment Banker?

Back in 1992 we had an election where the global economy was sort of on the ballot. The discussion was focused on NAFTA, but the arguments are still valid. We chose Mr. Clinton who signed the NAFTA bill, later Mr. Bush signed a bill to "fast-track" outsourcing and another to repeal the "Glass-Stegal" act which had prevented the financial services industry from participating in investment banking. Ross Perrot made a weak attempt to warn the country, but too few listened. We are still making the same "talking points" that we can get on Fox News or MSNBC that have very little to do with the real world and our future. High Tax rates, over regulation, and union shops are not the problem. Maintaining the status quo in education, govt, and the business community isn't going to get us anywhere. We have a lot of work to do and this election isn't going to address any of what is needed nor will it "bring the country together". Sorry to be "negative" but this is a pretty negative thread, so I'm consistent.

Joe
:P

Glasair had to look to China for an investor because American investors are not confident enough in the future of our nation's economy to make investments in American companies.

Sure, Joe, no plans were stated to close any US facility, etc., but now the profits Glasair makes will go to China rather than remain in the US economy, giving the Chinese even more US dollars with which to buy America. Someday, China will completely own America.

I agree that most everyone is a patriot until it comes time to pay for it. I also think that there should be healthy and fair marketplaces.

This debate could go on forever, and probably will (though not here on this forum.)

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Originally Posted by Jimbabwe

Glasair had to look to China for an investor because American investors are not confident enough in the future of our nation's economy to make investments in American companies.

Sure, Joe, no plans were stated to close any US facility, etc., but now the profits Glasair makes will go to China rather than remain in the US economy, giving the Chinese even more US dollars with which to buy America. Someday, China will completely own America.

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They already do own our country. Look at how much money we already owe them. The world has changed, it isn't a bunch of small economies that trade together. Its a world economy

As a manufacturer for Glasair (supplier of factory Exhaust Systems) I really hope there are indeed no changes to the staff, or their 2 week to taxi program... This is one of the top kit planes along with program to get them built and flying in a hurry. this purchase could not only hurt aircraft owners decision to buy a Glasair product but put added strain on many smaller US companies like mine as well. I was shocked to hear this news and with the very good year of systems sold to Glasair and monthly P.O.s that continue to come in.

I'm always a bit dismayed over stuff like this - it's very one sided. When US companies take over foreign ones (Ford and Jaguar), nobody seems too upset. Or when German companies take over American ones (Daimler-Crysler).

There is an upside - indeed, there are a couple of them. Would we be cheering if the board of an aircraft manufacturer closed their doors rather than accept investment based on the nation it came from?

Politically, it's a good thing in the long run. The more economic ties we have to a potential super power the better; the risks of conflict go waayyy down. Why do you think the one of the first things they did after WWII was combine the coal and steel industries of France and Germany?

Well said Frank!

We have a culture stuck in the 1950's while the real world is sitting in 2012. We never talk about what drove the US to be such a strong advocate of Free Trade. Back when we had 13 states we had to import most manufactured goods and we exported agri-products like cotton and tobacco. A great deal of the 19th century railroad expansion in America was financed by British banks, as we grew the need to export US goods, especially to Europe was hampered by high taxes imposed on imported goods to Europe. Today we have a "mature" economy, that is over extended in consumer debt with a "Financial Industry" on life support thanks to it's own greed. The recovery is slow especially in employment, because sales are down, those that have jobs (majority of pop.) are stuck with over valued houses and high consumer debt so an increase in spending is low and slow. Businesses will expand when their sales forecasts turn up enough to support that growth. I have never worked for any business that said let's go out and hire now that we got a tax cut!

Joe
:rollseyes:

That's simply not true. I am an Honorably Discharged U.S. Marine and I made numerous attempts to hammer out the details of purchasing the Glasair Aviation company. The Chinese apparently decided to give them more money, because that's what the management held out for. I can't really blame them for that. Can you? That's all it's about my fellow human beings and Americans. Everybody better wake the hell up. The gentlemen earlier has it right. We better all learn to speak Chinese, because they are going to enslave us, and they are going to be laughing all the way to the bank.

Aviation is not the only industry this is happening in. In the past, the countries that were wealthy, were also the technology leaders. This has not been the case with China. They made their wealth off of the technology of others, without the need or overhead of the initial time/financial investment usually associated with technology development. This has put them in a position of being behind from a technology perspective, however very wealthy, and so now you have them just buying whatever they want. On the flip side, you cant buy something unless someone is willing to sell it. So combine a technology hungry wealthy country, with one that values personal wealth and greed over everything else.....and guess what happens? Its nobodys fault but our own for being greedy, on every level, from manufacturing workers to corporate management.

"bd"'

I'm not sure what is "simply not true" and I don't see what being a " Honorably Discharged U.S. Marine (thank you for your service) has to do with this topic. If you we're part of Glassair's Business Team then you may be in a good position to shed some light on why Glassair was in the search for more capital. Clearly they got what they were after or they wouldn't have made the deal. This is a hot topic and I'm trying to keep the pot from boiling over and hopefully get some thoughtful discussion going on a really serious national problem. Aaron has touched on some issues that have been around for a long time. I can remember having a conversation with an engineering mgr at GE back in the early 80's on the dangers of technology transfer. That horse is long out of barn! Yes Aaron we are driven by money! I would argue that the root cause of the problem is short term measurements which promote short term thinking and short term solutions. Corporations are measured by quarter points, and the political class by the time between elections. When this whole move to China started I thought we would be number 2 in the world economy in 40 or 50 years, well that is going to happen a lot sooner! If we don't get the money out of the election process and close the revolving door from Congressmen to Lobbyist we may slip below number 2. I'm guessing that this thread will continue to run all the same talking points and "solutions" we've heard on TV news for the last 10 years. We now have a few more "votes" against free trade then for it on this thread, doesn't surprise me at all Americans are quick to "wave the flag" but short on ideas to fix the problem.

Still Negative,
Joe
:(

Joe,
Unfortunately I believe that the problem is one of ethics and morality, which is probably impossible to "fix". Honestly I cant blame China, and never will. They were in an excellent position to reap rewards from greedy Americans ( and europeans, russians etc ), and they did so with great effeciency. I have a feeling once they develop a middle class with disposable income, we will see import prices going up, and domestic production returning as they have more internal demand. Painful I know for now, but these things seem to eventually work out.....after all we were at one time doing the same thing to europe.....

Aaron,

Yes the basic "ebb and flow" of free market economics will eventually stabilize the US economy. China has a good understanding of how the system works, despite their "communist" label they have moved way off Marx. I still wouldn't trade our current situation for theirs. Having said that, we don't really have a free market system in the USA, probably really never have had one. What we have is a system that allows money to purchase laws, tax codes, tax credits, and votes, that keep special interests happy. Since we all have are own special interests we play a role in that kind of democracy. The more $$ you spend the bigger voice you have. User fees are still brought up because the Airline industry lobbys to pass their costs onto somebody else, and so it goes with everything. Maybe next spring when the election is history we'll see a serious discussion on tax reform, but don't be surprised if it's just another "food fight" with everybody pointing fingers at the "other guy" and fighting for their own piece. We are in the midst of a historical change and people only like change for the other guy.

Joe:eek:

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Maybe next spring when the election is history we'll see a serious discussion on tax reform, but don't be surprised if it's just another "food fight" with everybody pointing fingers at the "other guy" and fighting for their own piece.

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I seriously doubt it since if you took Romney dumped his butt back into the governor's mansion in Mass-a-two-****s you'd have a hard time telling his policies from those of our current president because that's what he did during his tenure there the first time around and you know what they say is the best predictor of future behavior. Neither of them is a great choice but Romney has a level of sleaze going on that even the politicians in his own (supposed) party are calling him on it. That should tell you something when a bunch of folks not known for their ethical quality and nothing to gain are painting you as the poster child for the Waffle House. To be honest, he reminds me of Nixon without any of Nixon's good qualities.

Steve, as one who grew up during Vietnam, with Kent State, My Lai, and Watergate, I don't think I have ever seen anyone use the words "Nixon" and "good qualities" in the same sentence.

Other than the fact that he wasn't twins, I can't think of anything good about him.

Steve,

I agree regarding the soon to be Republican nominee, their really isn't much difference between the GOP and the Dems they both take $ and respond to those who lobby. The big fight over returning to the pre 2000 tax rates is whether we should raise the upper rate from the current 35% to 39%. The stated rates are all a phony argument since the tax code provides a zillion loop holes to avoid paying taxes, the only rate that counts is the effective rate, i.e. that which is actually paid. I didn't vote for Mr. Nixon, I didn't like the idea of a "Secret Plan" to end the war, but I do think he was a talented manger. Bill, I voted for Barry Goldwater in 1964 and George McGovern in 1972...both lost, my only regret during that period was not voting at all in 1968. I hope we get a big voting turn-out come Nov, but with all the negative ads it isn't likely. This election will be like most decided by the "independent" voter choosing the lesser of two bad choices.

Joe

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Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood

Steve, as one who grew up during Vietnam, with Kent State, My Lai, and Watergate, I don't think I have ever seen anyone use the words "Nixon" and "good qualities" in the same sentence.

Other than the fact that he wasn't twins, I can't think of anything good about him.

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That was my point. ;)

If it makes anyone feel better there is a major story in today's business section of USA Today about how China is starting to see some economic problems and slow down of growth almost as if the U SA did in 2008 to the present, but not nearly to the same extent.

Glasair CEO steps down as new Chinese owner takes over

The beginning of the end of Glasair as we knew it?

Yes, New management will be something different! If they certify the "2+2" they may get a lot of orders from the growing Chinese aviation market. This is all speculation, just like tomorrow's weather will be "different" from todays! The stockholders of Glassair have approved this deal and their objective is to make $$, so it's safe to say that the free enterprise system is working.

Joe
;)