Any improvement to cell coverage for this year's AirVenture?

Since some mentioned it in another thread; I was just curious what has been done to hopefully improve things - especially for us AT&T stuckees.

About the only way I found around it was to call someone I knew who had a non-ATT phone who could then call my wife. It seems that if AT&T saw that you were trying to call another AT&T customer on the same cell tower, they'd figure that you're close enough that you don't need to make a call. Whereas making a call to another carrier's customer would always go through. Same way in reverse.

I'm not kidding; I'd call my buddy and say, "Hey, John, could you call Betty and tell her to meet me at Twin Oaks?" We couldn't even get texts to go through.

Thanks for any info on upgrades!

Based on AT&T's coverage map things look good. Of course when you have 73,296 pilots on their phones at the same time..... ;)

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverage...e&wtLinkLoc=RN

As in years past, the cellular providers have a direct contractual obligation to their customers. EAA has not entered into a service agreement with any cellular company as it pertains to general AirVenture service, nor are we likely to pursue one (simply given EAA has virtually no control over service levels or coverage areas). EAA is aware of general user dissatisfaction (but lacks visibility into actual metrics) and understands the ramifications this has on the event. EAA also realizes the challenges that face the cellular companies: A high-concentration of users, data hungry devices, limited communications spectrum (regulated by the FCC), and an underdeveloped location (i.e., small town, surrounded by farm country, located next to a periodically used convention site) and limited infrastructure (to handle the communications backhaul). As a result, EAA traditionally:
1) Contacts the area’s major cellular providers (e.g., AT&T, Verizon, U.S. Cellular, and Sprint) as well as local providers (e.g., Cellcom, Airfire Mobile) to better understand their user assessment of service, and steps they are taking (or have taken) to prepare for AirVenture.
2) Encourages each provider to examine their support of the event and make appropriate adjustments.
3) Redirects service feedback to the appropriate providers after the event.

As an additional step to improve this year's experience, EAA held a "Cellular Service Roundtable" in January where the issue of reliable communications was openly discussed and ideas shared on how best to improve this venue for all stakeholders. It was EAA’s objective to jointly admit the overall communications challenge and explore how we can help each other improve attendant experience. The forum was attended by engineers/account reps from Verizon, AirFire Mobile (Einstein PCS), Sprint, and Cellcom. AT&T declined the invitation and we were unable to secure someone from U.S. Cellular to participate.

It was generally agreed that connectivity on the grounds is not the issue - capacity is (i.e., lack of wireless spectrum). Unfortunately, the data demand is unable to be handled by the existing towers. The cellular providers are clearly struggling to solve this issue. Lack of infrastructure appears to be a common concern, with a venue that is difficult to justify significant capital investment by the respective carriers. Nonetheless, the carriers are attempting to address subscriber needs in multiple ways. Examples include:
1) Redirecting towers to concentrate service on the AirVenture grounds.
2) Installing additional towers in and around the area, plus investing in existing infrastructure (AT&T activated their 3G service two years ago, Verizon recently activated their 4G service, and Sprint made a sizable equipment investment this past year).
3) Deploying COWs (Cellular On Wheels) to ease demand on the primary towers (AT&T will have two this year).

You can save a lot of money if you just leave out the airplane part, and stay home where the cell phone coverage is better.
And if you are old fashioned enough to miss an airplane, you can get an "app" with airplane pictures on your cell phone.

Thanks, John, for the update.

I was expecting nothing from EAA other than a nudge to the providers basically saying, "Hey, we've got 100,000 folks here. How you gonna handle that?".

I guess I was expecting a bit better support from the providers; it seems that other similar events like the Super Bowl, just about any MLB baseball game, NASCAR race, etc. has decent coverage - and things like NASCAR happen at a given track with about the same frequency of AirVenture.

While data would be great, my concern is that I can't call another AT&T customer. Yeah, I'm whining that I want to be able to coordinate lunch with my wife.

Good point about the infrastructure. I *think* you're meaning that even if they have enough towers, there's not enough trunk line capacity to MKE or Chicago to support the volume of calls / data. I can understand how *that* would limit things - again, good point.

Thanks again for the update and some insight into the challenges. I can appreciate you trying to pull all this together.

Carl - No problem. It's tough to undertand when you see better coverage at other venues (e.g., NASCAR, NFL, MLB, etc.). However, these venues generally have a considerably larger audience if you factor in television/radio/multi-media audience and brand recognition. These venues are also active for a longer period of time (vs. 1 week), so this helps justify the capital investment. With that said, it's still a struggle at some locations, even with a more significant investment. The other issue you touched on is capacity. Even if we were to get more towers in the area (which is somewhat problematic given we are at an airport), there is not enough "pipe" to handle the data traffic (backhaul) to the central offices of the carriers.

John, thanks for the proactive response.

Carl, consider a smart phone VOIP app to allow you to make calls via the AV WiFi network. I have a Vonage account and use the Vonage "extensions" app on my iPhone, and there is another Vonage app called Vonage "mobile." There are other VOIP providers with apps that should be able to accomplish the same thing, e.g. Skype, etc.

Stop by my booth 446/457 (Lisa Airplanes) if you want to see an iPhone VOIP demo, plus the nickel tour.

Just remember that EAA's Wi-Fi is a complementary service. Although we make every attempt to provide a reliable service to our guests, the infrastructure is limited and it is subject to the same capacity challenges as the cellular providers. Actually, it gets hammered hard given the cellular networks attempt to offload some of their traffic to publically available Wi-Fi.

John, is the vendor WiFi as challenged as the public WiFi, e.g. suffers capacity issues?

No, the vendor Wi-Fi is on a secured, separate pipe. This is not to say it has unlimited capacity, but it isn't subject to the same demands as the public Wi-Fi.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Carrier

No, the vendor Wi-Fi is on a secured, separate pipe. This is not to say it has unlimited capacity, but it isn't subject to the same demands as the public Wi-Fi.

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Thanks John, that is great news.

I think I have a picture somewhere that I should scan and post, showing people lined up at the pay phones scattered around the OSH grounds. This was from back in the 70's, I am sure. Before anybody should misread my sentiments, I am still employed in my own business, with the need for "communication".....however, all of my clients, all of my contract people know this....I AM GOING TO BE DAMNED HARD TO REACH during OSH. I know it is tough to be away from facebook (whatever that is....just kidding...I check my page once a month whether I need to or not), and tough to not stream video of American Idol, or, in my case The Andy Griffith Show....but jeeeeesh people, it was not that far back that we would not even be having this conversation, and yet we LIVED, even prospered. I know many of your kids will DIE if they can't ruin their thumbs punching texts to all of their friends at the mall back home, but try introducing them to aviation and all the dreams that go with that.

Sorry for the rant, but we have lost 4 people in my state in the recent past, due to young people driving and texting....and killing others.

As for ATT, that is my carrier. Did not have any issues with them last year or the year before. I also did not have issues with the EAA wifi, although it did not seem to come on until Tuesday. I also have my own Sprint aircard and router, so if any of you are having withdrawl symptoms from not being connected 24/7, come on over and I will let you get online, and sell you an orange to ward off OSH Scurvy ($10 a slice, and you will pay it).

I carry two cells to Oshkosh (though not with me outside the tent) one on Verizon and one on AT&T. I can tell you it's dicey at times with either one of them. I had a very interesting telecom with some folks from General Dynamics punctuated by airshow low passes and dropped verizon connections last summer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Check 6

Of course when you have 73,296 pilots on their phones at the same time..... ;)

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Small correction, 73,296 pilot on their SMART phones at the same time! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim Hann

Small correction, 73,296 pilot on their SMART phones at the same time! :D

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Very true. :thumbsup:

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I saw that AT&T had at least one COWS mobile cell tower truck at the week-long Omaha College World Series this year.

I didn't get my own photo of one, these are from the web. The extendable pole behind the cab on the white truck in this bottom image also has a cell antenna perched on the top.


Sprint has WIMAX (early 4g - slowly being replaced by LTE) coverage via Clear http://www.clear.com/coverage that IS tenuously accessible on Wimax phones via a "spectrum protection site" built per govt regulation to reserve their national spectrum lease. It is part of a "use it or lose it" program.

You can use the address for the FAA pavilion at 3210 Knapp Street - ZIP 54902 to view that (arguably borderline) coverage of the airport on their map.

On some (most / all?) Sprint Wimax phones, keep in mind that you may have to manually disconnect wi-fi and select "enable" and "connect" for 4g to get it to connect. It isn't automatic like regular data coverage and if you have an established wi-fi connection, it overrides the 4g wimax connection.

You have to do this from within the wimax coverage area to get it to synchronize up and you may have to reconnect manually periodically if you lose connection by walking into a building, or Radio Frequency Interference noisy area.


Nextel side of Sprint has always had decent voice, low end MMS data, and direct connect coverage, this will be my first year with a Wimax 4g "pure Sprint" Motorola Photon smartphone. I'll be trying Clear's 4g Wimax and public Wi-Fi to see what performance I get.


Another multi-carrier signal coverage information site is Sensorly. That site uses smartphone apps to collect a clearinghouse of purely real-world user-derived coverage data. Select a carrier and data mode from the dropdown box.

Remember, this is NOT vendor provided data. It is derived only from users via the application and their voluntary participation.

Be sure to zoom in on the coverage map at least a notch or two from default as the low magnification overview map is generally derived from older and less extensive data. WiFi listings hinted at there don't seem to work.

On Sensorly, if a user hasn't taken readings for that carrier on that location, you do not have any data. Check Verizon 4g and Sprint 4g for examples of successfully detected high-end coverage around KOSH (zip code 54902)

Android APP link
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sensorly.viewer


Since the biggest issue is the capacity problem caused by the sheer volume of users on the system. AT&T + Verizon are the two on top. They build for average usage "plus". But NOT for a huge, sprawling, usage spiking, outdoor vacation/recreation, data-intensive events like Airventure.

This is where having a relatively small or unpopular carrier becomes more valuable -as long as their equipment is still decent.

Because there are fewer users on those systems, they have less competition for the available resources.

The only real way to handle the spike to any of our satisfaction would be something closer to setting up an *expensive* miniature version of each carrier's mobile disaster recovery sites:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/29/on-the-ground-with-atandts-network-disaster-recovery-team/2

Watch the time-lapse of the Dallas practice exercise. That isn't cheap to do for a seven-day event. You use up consumables and break things. These setups are meant for 3-6 months use while local infrastructure is completely rebuilt post-disaster.

Now, it WOULD be a useful short-term training drill -which is what the video illustrates, BUT...

Problems with that are that it costs a LOT of money to house that staff in Oshkosh that time of year because the lodging is already taken up by all the Airventure visitors - a year or two in advance.

Carriers would also need to find places to park all that equipment securely away from the airshow disaster zone but within reach of the airport.

Logistical nightmare, and cost-benefit fails quickly.

Add to that, anytime you find a means to expand bandwidth, people will find a way to use it up.

I swear that everyone would try to Skype from Airventure if they could.

15 days
20 for me

Live video feeds are in testing. Look for that thread here in the forums.

Spent the whole week there in 2011. I didn't even know there was a cell phone issue and wifi was just there every night with no issues as well.

Maybe I was just lucky.

I thought last year the EAA wifi was significantly improved from previous years, and my ATT and Sprint phones had good service most of the time. I admit I'm a heavy user, was even direct uploading pics from my phone realtime. At times the uploads would be delayed minutes or even hours, but I expect that as the carriers prioritize voice and text over data and uploads.

John - I couldn't find a map of the 2012 EAA wifi locations. Is it available?

Did ATT have those two COWS last year too, or is that an improvement for this year?

I would expect they would be listed on the grounds map again this year.

They *are* missing from the current 2012 revision of the camp scholler map already posted.

Maps should be here as they post:
http://airventure.org/planning/schedules_maps.html

Last year's scholler map (with wi-fi):
http://airventure.org/images/av11_schollermap.jpg

Last year's grounds map (same as current link 07.07.12):
http://airventure.org/planning/av11_visitormap.pdf

You can see last year's locations on last year's maps (until they are replaced?)
Look at the map legend to see what the symbol for the wi-fi transmitter locations are.

I know where all the maps are, and what the wifi symbols are. I'm asking John because they are not indicated for 2012.

Oh. Sorry.

I figured you hadn't seen the page because it says right on it:

(2012 map coming soon)

@dmbleess - actually I didn't see that little "coming soon" note. Thanks.

As was noted by another poster, the 2012 map will be upload quite soon (just reviewed the final version the other day). It will have all Wi-Fi locations marked. No significant changes this year from last. We did add a few more hotspots.

As for the COWs, AT&T had one unit last year. They're adding a second one this year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Carrier

As for the COWs, AT&T had one unit last year. They're adding a second one this year.

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Thanks, John; good to hear that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarlOrton

Thanks, John, for the update.

I was expecting nothing from EAA other than a nudge to the providers basically saying, "Hey, we've got 100,000 folks here. How you gonna handle that?".

I guess I was expecting a bit better support from the providers; it seems that other similar events like the Super Bowl, just about any MLB baseball game, NASCAR race, etc. has decent coverage - and things like NASCAR happen at a given track with about the same frequency of AirVenture.

While data would be great, my concern is that I can't call another AT&T customer. Yeah, I'm whining that I want to be able to coordinate lunch with my wife.

Good point about the infrastructure. I *think* you're meaning that even if they have enough towers, there's not enough trunk line capacity to MKE or Chicago to support the volume of calls / data. I can understand how *that* would limit things - again, good point.

Thanks again for the update and some insight into the challenges. I can appreciate you trying to pull all this together.

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Carl-

I'm with Sprint and I can tell you unequivocally that Mr. Carrier and his team have more than tried to "NUDGE" the carriers. I was at the Round-table in January along with our Area Network Performance Manager for Wisconsin. We have made a major CAPEX into the area with additional capacity to the three towers that we have that service the immediate service area of KOSH. This year, and building off what we added last year, we have added COW's to address potential capacity issues.

Its a problem, all the carriers agree and continue to respond. John is doing the best that he can on behalf of the attendee's. He has the majority of the carriers attention.

AT&T worked well for me this year, iPhone 4 and iPad 3. Data was slow some times, and my company's overzealous security wouldn't let me in, but I expected that! Better connections on the phone this year than ever before. Last year my wife had a "free" phone from AT&T and she had horrible luck.

Jim

My AT&T coverage was much better, as well. Now, if they could just improve it on the west side of town where we rent the house for the week... Kind of funny that it was easier to talk to my wife via Face Time over the WiFi at the rental...

Ditto for me on AT&T. Much better service this year. My verizon 4g mifi also worked pretty good. Even connected to 4g a few times.Gets better each year.

My Nextel radio was great, never had a glitch at all. The phone part on it worked great as well.

T-Mobile coverage was, at best, random. I camped in HBC this year and my old school phone would go from 0 to 4 bars within 15 minutes without moving the phone. In prior years, there was no T-Mobile in the area so I guess that's an improvement.