Student's First Lesson

I watched a student's first lesson, was surprised at how it was done.
He was a 17 year old local high school boy, according to his Mom he has been studying the book and really wants to learn to fly.
He had a two hour time block.
The flight was less than 20 minutes. One takeoff, one landing. I don't know what air work if any was done.
They spent about 1 and a half hours on the preflight and start up. Before they ever untied the plane they were inside with the master on and checking the nav lights. It was in the middle of a sunny day, not a cloud in the sky. But they gave those nav llights a good checkout.
I don't know if the boy even got to touch the controls.
I do know that when he came back into the FBO he was not smiling, frankly he looked about like he had just been to the dentist.
I am not sure, but as he went out the door I think I heard him tell his Mom that the CFI flew the whole time, the student did not get to fly.
The plane is a old Piper, fixed prop, fixed gear,mechancial flaps, standard engine, standard panel; no glass cockpit or complicated stuff. Almost the same thing I flew 30 years ago when I learned.
I can't comprhend what items one could find to stretch out a preflight that long on this plane. They were not adding fuel or oil or air in the tires or cleaning the window, just checking things.
The senior CFI told me this was the way a lesson should be done, that they had to be thorogh because they were liable.
The actual CFI in the plane is new to this location. I don't know him, but I do know that he is working here because the other location just went out of business. I'll bet those nav lights were working well at the other location, right up unti the time they shut the doors.
Maybe I am out of date, but it seems to me this isn't the way to market a service or sell a hobby, especially in these tough economic times.
It is if a customer came into a bar and asked for a cold beer and they first gave him a lecture on how the hops are grown and harvested.
I think the boy may come back,but I also would not be surprised if he found another hobby, especially with school starting in a few weeks.
We have another CFI here who did a first lesson/discovery flight with a guy I know who has always been afraid to fly. They had a great sightseeing flight over the area, and came back and did 3 landings. My friend did the last two landings himself , the last one without the CFI even touching the controls. He did not mention the nav lights.
He was so excited that he is talking about taking lessons, but has a confict with a busy work demand.
What do other students or CFI s think a first lesson should be?

Personally, I've flown with several CFIs before deciding on one. Most of the ones I passed over were exactly like the one you described (attention paid to things that folks don't need to know from step 1, not allowed to touch the controls, etc). Congratulations to your local flight school for likely costing the GA community a new member.

If the person that is taking the first lesson seems seriously interested, this is what I do:

First, we meet for about fifteen minutes to introduce ourselves and to discuss how the lesson will go. They are told, from the very start, that we will take about 5-10 minutes to get a weather briefing from a briefer. They are also told that they will be taught how to pre-flight the airplane, and that this will take about 20-30 minutes or so. Then, we will fly for 40 minutes. We also discuss exchange of controls, and that, at 500 feet AGL, they will be flying the plane until I want the controls back (if they're sharp and wind is calm, I may not want them back until we're on the runway). The lesson itself is devoted to the four fundamentals, and I do very little actual flying.

OK, back to the WX brief and the preflight, because I know some of you are already aghast. I first give the student the number and tell them to listen and try to understand what they're hearing. I reassure them that I'm responsible for the information, but this is a way of getting information that is vital to every flight, and they'll soon learn what they need to know. I then call Flight Service on a speaker phone, explain to the briefer that there's a brand new student listening, and request the briefing. 99% of the time, the briefers are accommodating and slow down and enunciate even more clearly than usual. After the call, I ask the student what they got out of it. You'd be surprised, even if some of the details are wrong, how well they get it. We discuss any areas of misunderstanding and then go to the plane, if the weather isn't a stopper.

During the preflight, we both do all of the checks, me explaining why we do them. BTW, this includes the nav lights at noon on June 22nd. Why? Well, two reasons: if one is burned out, it's a lot nicer for the night renters to get the thing replaced while the mechanics are on duty (who here has not been aced out of a night flight because of a dead bulb?). Also, if the breaker or some such should open when the switch is flipped, we have a bigger problem, don't we (yes, it's happened to me)? After the preflight, we go fly, obviously. BTW, once we're away from tight quarters, I let them taxi.

Why do this at the beginning? Well, it's an attempt to pull them into the game as it were. After all, this real pilot stuff we're talking about, so they get to feel a little puffed up at the beginning. Also, I'm trying to get good habits built early on. Doing this stuff from the get-go is a way of doing so. I want WX briefings and preflight actions to be more than learned behavior - I want them to be ingrained. By the way, I do not hide this from the newbie; I spell right out what my motivations are.

Now, if this sounds onerous, remember it's all in how it's sold. Do it right, and you'll make it an interesting part of the experience. Remember, Tom Sawyer's friends all thought that whitewashing a fence was fun...

One last thing: I have never, ever lost a student of any age using this technique.

Bob, I must say that I concur with your approach 100%. When learning something new, a person remembers best what they are told first. Best to learn the right way first than to have to relearn something that was taught wrongly initially. As we all know, most accidents are the result of poor judgement rather than the result of poor mechanical skills. Teahcing good practices from the beginning is the best apporach. Not that a preflight should take an hour and a half. Good prep makes for good flying, and as much of that as possible should be done by the student.

Bob, If one of the very first things the CFI and the student focus on is the nav lights on a sunny very day for a noon flight then what does the student concentrate on? What does he learn first? That flight safety if mostly a matter of a small light that you don't use anyway in the daytime? Seems to me that when you walk up to a plane, especially one flown in a flight school, there are 3 real things you want to see. First and foremost, how much fuel is in the plane? On every flight you use and need fuel and that is the one item that changes with every flight. Nav lights, static ports, even tire pressure and oil level are not likely to change much after the previous hour flight. Maybe it is because I have flown across the U S and Canada, and to the Carib, some of it in planes with limited range; that I want the student to be concious of fuel, and oil. Item 2 is to drain the fuel sumps, and 3 is the normal walk around that includes all the hinges pitot cover, control locks and surfaces etc, in other words the things you see on a normal visual inspection.
Now some CFIs may say that spending I 1/2 hours on preflight is good, affter all the student needs to know how to do it, and soon he will be doing it solo. But he also needs to know how to do weight and balance, would you spend the majority of the first lesson having him learn and calculate that also?
There has to be some common sense, some sense of proportion.
What are the risks of a first flight? There is not really much danger of crashing, the record with the CFI discovevery flight is very good. Young Eagles has done over I 1/2 million and I think there has been only one fatality last time I heard.
The other risk is that the student get some bad habits. To me, being casual about the fuel on board is one of these, and giving equal importance to a light you are not going to use with fuel is silly.
But really THE BIG RISK of a first flight, Discovery or lesson is that the student is bored and won't come back or tell his friends how much fun and how easy it is.
A lot of flight school have closed over the years, a lot of CFIs out of a job or at best a subsistence living. Used to be most every airport and most FBOs had a flight school. Not anymore. Why did they fail? Sure wasn't because a nav light was not given enough attention on a CAVU day. The real risk is the CFI and school going out of business because their marketing and people skills are bad. Of course the economy and cost of flying are part of it , maybe the biggest part.
By the way, I think your brief exposure of the student to the weather is good. I am not sure how much he learns from that , but at least he gets the idea there is one. Before solo and final test is the time to go deeper into this subject which for me is most of what I need for a safe outlook.
Finally, you and I and I and CFI s know the student CAN LEARN, CAN become a pilot. BUT THE FIRST TIME STUDENT DOES NOT KNOW THAT. In fact he may have some big doubts,and if the first lesson does not leave him with some positive feeling he may not continue. I think I have read 40% of students drop out, is that about the facts?

Jeez, I think my first CFI handed me the controls before we climbed through 100'... and didn't take them again except to show me some things, stalls and stuff, until just before the landing flare. I don't remember doing much beyond the usual 10 minute preflight, either.

I've never even owned a plane with navigation lights... :)

Admittedly it was 42 years ago and I have very little memory of my first hour of dual. What I do remember is I was in the left seat, we started the takeoff roll, the instructor pulled back on the yoke we were airborne. We were barely above the runway and he said, "YOUR airplane." I flew the remainder of the time until landing. I was in a C-150 I had 11000 feet of runway (the B-52s used it regularly) and I was flying, not well or pretty but I was PIC. That was an aeroclub at Ellsworth AFB and immersion was the SAC way, even off-duty.

First lesson, I taxied, took off, did maneuvers and flew to final. Obviously the CFI was there for back up and to tell me what to do, but it was me that was actually doing it all. For the landing, he had me on the controls to follow him, but he's the one that did the actual landing. First attempt at landing was the 2nd lesson. Instructor did the flare of course.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood

Bob, If one of the very first things the CFI and the student focus on is the nav lights on a sunny very day for a noon flight then what does the student concentrate on? What does he learn first? That flight safety if mostly a matter of a small light that you don't use anyway in the daytime? Seems to me that when you walk up to a plane, especially one flown in a flight school, there are 3 real things you want to see. First and foremost, how much fuel is in the plane? On every flight you use and need fuel and that is the one item that changes with every flight. Nav lights, static ports, even tire pressure and oil level are not likely to change much after the previous hour flight. Maybe it is because I have flown across the U S and Canada, and to the Carib, some of it in planes with limited range; that I want the student to be concious of fuel, and oil. Item 2 is to drain the fuel sumps, and 3 is the normal walk around that includes all the hinges pitot cover, control locks and surfaces etc, in other words the things you see on a normal visual inspection.Now some CFIs may say that spending I 1/2 hours on preflight is good, affter all the student needs to know how to do it, and soon he will be doing it solo. But he also needs to know how to do weight and balance, would you spend the majority of the first lesson having him learn and calculate that also?There has to be some common sense, some sense of proportion.What are the risks of a first flight? There is not really much danger of crashing, the record with the CFI discovevery flight is very good. Young Eagles has done over I 1/2 million and I think there has been only one fatality last time I heard.The other risk is that the student get some bad habits. To me, being casual about the fuel on board is one of these, and giving equal importance to a light you are not going to use with fuel is silly.But really THE BIG RISK of a first flight, Discovery or lesson is that the student is bored and won't come back or tell his friends how much fun and how easy it is.A lot of flight school have closed over the years, a lot of CFIs out of a job or at best a subsistence living. Used to be most every airport and most FBOs had a flight school. Not anymore. Why did they fail? Sure wasn't because a nav light was not given enough attention on a CAVU day. The real risk is the CFI and school going out of business because their marketing and people skills are bad. Of course the economy and cost of flying are part of it , maybe the biggest part. By the way, I think your brief exposure of the student to the weather is good. I am not sure how much he learns from that , but at least he gets the idea there is one. Before solo and final test is the time to go deeper into this subject which for me is most of what I need for a safe outlook. Finally, you and I and I and CFI s know the student CAN LEARN, CAN become a pilot. BUT THE FIRST TIME STUDENT DOES NOT KNOW THAT. In fact he may have some big doubts,and if the first lesson does not leave him with some positive feeling he may not continue. I think I have read 40% of students drop out, is that about the facts?

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I've read your post, really thought about it and...

[Shatner voice]I'm not changing a thing.[/Shatner voice]

OK, I need to clarify a bit, obviously. I'm not talking about a 90 minute preflight. That's just crazy. Last night, I gave a CFI candidate his first CFI lesson. Part of his lesson was to "teach" me how to preflight an Arrow. Even with me interrupting to coach or play "dumb student", it only took 25 minutes. That included checking the lights, BTW.

As I stated before, it's all about how it's "sold". Read Greg Brown's The Savvy Flight Instructor: most CFI's don't realize the importance of allowing their enthusiasm to shine through. Done correctly, this stuff is all way cool, not a drag. So, why introduce it early? Well, to counter your argument, to show them that, y'know, this flying stuff ain't really that hard, while showing the importance of doing it right the first time every time. They can be pilots!

To pick on what is clearly a sore point with you: Sure, you can't see the lights during the day, and I get mad at people that burn them unnecessarily during the day. However, as I said, it's actually a consideration for other renters to check them so they can be addressed if there is a dead bulb. Besides, it is an airworthiness issue - if the lights don't work correctly, why don't they work correctly? Could be a dead bulb. I've also had to deal with a dead short in the nav lights.

The fact is that as someone that has been a 141 check airman and does a lot of flight reviews, there are a lot of pilots out there that don't understand airworthiness issues, only check the ATIS or AWOS before flying, don't understand the AD's for their own airplanes, etc. I lay this squarely on the shoulders of CFI's that don't teach good habits from the start.

I'm not perfect by a long shot, and I'm still learning every day, but we can and should do better. The first lesson, which is supposed to be a learning experience, by it's very nature, is a darned good place to start.

Bob, I was just using the nav lights as an example; that instead of focusing the first time student on what is really important, starting with fuel, the checklist and that CFI begin with nav lights.
It can be any other item. When you have checklist that are probably written by a lawyer or law clerk or someone who is so liability conscious that common sense goes out the door and they are going to try to cya on every small point

Today was a great example. My Bonanza is in for annual, and I needed to get back home. I got a flght in a Diamond D40. The checklist covers all the small points, tells you when to put the key in the ignition, etc. At least 3 o4 times it has us checking pitot heat, despite it being 75 degrees out, not a cloud in the sky, and we are flying both VFR and VMC. But boy did we check that pitot heat, over and over and in big print. So we get through our runup and as I get ready to takeoff, there are no figures for best angle or best rate on climb. So I ask the CFI. He shows me another page in the checklist with a small diagram at a climb angle and VERY SMALL PRINT there is the 66K and 77k figures. I have 20-20 vision, recently passed my medical exam as such, no glasses needed for normal vision, and I can barely makeout the fine print clearly. But hey, what's best angle or best rate? Not nearly as important as pitot heat on a August day in vmc, eh?

I recently flew with a student pilot, now private pilot, who just passed his checkride that morning. We were in a Gobosh, an LSA with a glass cockpit. He could work the gadgets just fine, he could look on the panel and tell me what the wind aloft was. But he had a hard time landing the plane. After we did a go around, and were on downwind, I asked him what the wind was. He looked on the panel and found a figure. I explained to him that I was talking about the wind on the ground, at the runway that he was trying to land on . The idea of looking at the windsock had never occurred to him, even though we flew right by it on the first time. As we came around the 2nd time he did a little better job after I
pointed out to him that there was about a 12 knot crosswind. He didn't get the centerline, but you could see it nearby.
I'll bet he was really good at checking nav lights and pitot heat. And I hope he gets better at finding the center of the runway. By the way he learned at APA where the runway is 10,000 by 100 so doesn't require much.

I moved my 15 y/o Son to the left seat of the Warrior. My CFII has been expired for a while, but I thought he could get a little headstart. His take-offs are fine, still working up to landings. Most of his flying is at altitude, maneuvers & the straight & level stuff. We usually go over an item or 2 on each event/flight. I was surprised with his 'pushback' with my instructing him to taxi on centerline. Of course it takes a bit to get the feel for steering & all. Besides the safety & clearance aspect of centerline taxi I think it shows you have your head in the game. Am I asking to much? We've only had a handful of flights with him left seat though, just setting the bar.

My first lesson was similar to the "Good Guy" CFI's description. I meet my first CFI at a company golf league--he was nervous because I'm real clutzy at athletic things. We were both engineers at an electronics company. He spent 20--30 min teaching me how to preflight and I kindof expected that. He did the initial taxi and takeoff and handed me the airplane at a safe altitude. I put my left hand on the yoke and my right hand on the throttle--he said "Oh, you have been in a small plane before" and sort of moved on to lesson two since he saw that I know what each control did.

I have a lot of friends and college classmates who fly and I have been an aeromodeler. I am also a ham radio operator so I didn't have any problem with the radios. But the basic thing is that I was already a technical hobbiest and therefore "Had a clue..."

I have to agree w/ Bill. A potential student's first experience should be one that leave him/her wanting to come back. In fact, the whole learning to fly experience should leave a student/pilot wanting to continue to fly. While it is important to teach students to be safe, it is also important to demonstrate that flying is enjoyable.

Hmmm. Somewhere, something I wrote got missed.

First and foremost, if we're going to teach people to fly, we really do need to instill good habits from the start. Some, including the FAA, call this "primacy". Others call it "first learned is best learned". If you've ever had to "untrain" a bad habit, you know how powerful this can be. That's why I do what I do from the start.

However, this is what I think got missed: it's all in the "sale" by the CFI. Done properly, this can be part of the engagement that draws the new student in and makes them feel part of the process. Giving them ownership of the process is one of the most powerful motivators I know. This is not to say that a preflight should take 90 minutes - that's crazy, as I said before. But taking 15 minutes to do it and explain it is not onerous at all.

To expand, being a CFI is far less about the mechanics of flying than it is about interpersonal dynamics. You can be the greatest stick and rudder pilot on the planet and not be a good CFI if you can't pass the lessons on. Taking each element and breaking it down into simple, logical components is crucial, along with finding ways of keeping the student engaged and interested. My CFI candidates are always encouraged to keep me interested, and to show their enjoyment in flying as they "teach" me to fly. In fact, my CFI students know when they've gone into "Ben Stein mode" I just flat out lose interest in what they're saying.

BTW, Bill, I know the DA40 well. Yep, that checklist lists the pitot heat several times. However, what an opportunity to teach a student about certification and approved checklists (not at the runway, but in the classroom, before or after the flight). Right or wrong, Diamond thinks that having the pitot heat on prior to takeoff is important. That does not obviate, one bit, the need for flying the aircraft properly, including ensuring that you're on centerline, crosswind correction, and all the other fundamentals.

Also, I see your complaint as yet another opportunity to teach: explaining why it's important to dig into the performance section of the manual before going out to fly a new make and model.

Bob, I have a feeling that your lessons for any student are enjoyable and informative.

However, let me state again that there are 3 main things that can happen when a student (prospective customer about to spend $8000 or so) comes for his intro flight or first lesson.
And two of these things are bad. I didn't make that up, I got it from 2 time nat champion football coach Darrel Royal when the media used to ask him why they didn't modernize the offense and pass more. I E, when you pass 3 things can happen and two of them are bad.

Ok, the student might crash, but not very likely, even the lowest CFI can usually make it around the pattern.

The student may get bored or find the CFI stuck up or just not able to connect with the student, or find that the whole learning to fly thing seems to center on minutia and is not really much fun. AND THE STUDENT MAY NOT COME BACK. He can take that 8Gs over to the motorcycle store and find a lot of fun really quickly. ( My Son was an ace motorcycle road racer). And you can bet that the salesman at the cycle shop is not going to bore the heck out of the guy with some nonsense just because some lawyer wanted to CYA in case the guy rode it into bad weather and crashed.

Of course the student may have a good flight and love it and come back. Am I correct that 42% of students drop out and don't finish? And if they don't get the private, then they aren't going to bring their checkbook or credit card back for any advanced lessons or airplane purchase or service.

How many FBOs and flight schools have closed over the last 30 years? How many CFI s are not working or not making a good living? But hey on the day that the flight schools closed, I'll be that the nav lights and pitot heat were working fine.

As for "dig into the performance section of the manual"; why not have a manual that is written with common sense, and the important speeds are primarily and prominentaly displayed, not hidden in fine print after the big emphasis on num numb stuff like pitot heat. If not, the CFI should cover the checklist, but he should interpret it for the student and emphasize what is important,and it ain't pitot heat on a cavu vmc day.

I was at the airport yesterday and heard a CFI talking to a new prospect after an intro flight. There was virtually no encouragement, nothing that made flying seem fun. The CFI is one of the ones that just came over from the big airport nearby, where the flight school just went out of business. He told the prospective student that when it came time to do his first landing they would fly down to the big airport, Metro BJC, where the runway was 9000 by 100 because it was a little tight here at Boulder. Our runway is 4100, with clear approaches, and even used by a few jets. They were flying a Piper Archer, which should need about half the runway. I am not sure what the young man thought, but he was not smiling when he left the FBO and did not look like he was having a lot of fun. Nobody asked my opinion and it was not up to me to interfere, but if so I would have sure told him to get another CFI who had a little more spark.

Bill, I think we're violently agreeing here. The salient points are these:

1) Flying needs to be taught properly from the start
2) A good CFI needs to make the whole process meaningful and enjoyable
3) Too many CFI's don't do 1 or 2 or both. Too many new CFI's think that it's all about learning to fly from the right seat while talking. That's not it at all - it's about relating to the person in the other seat.

Really, it's a combination of marketing and teaching, which too many CFI's don't learn. I'm just one person, but it's something that I want to affect in this industry.

I can't really argue the merits of the Diamond (or any other) AFM. It is what it is (although there are some LSA handbooks that are, um, interesting, IMHO). My point about the digging into the manual for the check out was really geared towards transition training, not initial*. For the first flight, I'd tell someone, "we'll discover that down the road as we dig into the importance of limitations and such. For now, we have to honor what it says here" or some such.

Edit: Thank you for the compliment. I don't handle those well, so I blew by it, which is rather ungracious of me.

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*My comeuppance came during the oral portion of my commercial ride a long time ago. We were using a 172RG. The conditions given to me by the DPE (a very good one that is very senior in an airline) were "Soft field and max gross. Describe how you'd take off."

Me: "Well, I'd add 10 degrees of flaps, pull back the yoke to the stop, make sure the nose gear doesn't touch, etc..."
DPE: "Really...?"
Me: [alarm bells] "Um, lemme check on something..." [flip, flap, paw through AFM]
Me: "Oh - Um, there's a restriction under section two about no flaps with a gross weight over xxxx pounds, so I'd do everything the same except the flaps." (I don't remember what the weight is and I don't have the book in front of me right now)
DPE: "Very good"
Me: "That was my one gimme, wasn't it?"
DPE: "Yep. Of course, I know in a marginal operation like that you'd double the check the manual before attempting it, so we can move on."
Me: [stylus makes deep grove in cerebellum]

Bob, there is a story on WIX this am about a T-6 crash in Georgia; pilot not hurt fortunately, plane severely damaged, engine broken from the mounts.
Story says he was ferrying from the midwest redo shop where it was just bought, to Florida and ran out of fuel "30 seconds" from the next airport.

I don't know any more of the story or what the pilot was thinking when he flew across several states and past dozens of airports and fuel stops, or what he normally flies.
However I do know that he probably didn't have any trouble with nav lights or pitot heat, at least that is not mentioned in the story.
And he may have even known the gotcha question about taking off with full load on a soft strip in a 172. But that was of little help to him. Frankly I wouldn't want to take off with a full load in a 172 anywhere if I didn't have to, but I live and fly above 500 feet where they climb about like a submarine.
Maybe he normally flies some airline or biz jet or there is some reason I don't know.

But, to me, having flown some planes with less endurance than a T-6, and being old fashioned and not as up to date as the lawyer/clerk that wrote the manual for the D40; I really believe in my naive stubborn way, that knowing fuel consumption and distance and endurance figures for the plane you are flying is more vital. And not just knowing them, but being aware and planing for them.

Bill,

I agree with you. The short point here is that flying is lots of fun. A student's first experience should highlight the fun, once he/she is "hooked" then the hard work that supports the fun should begin. Nobody has ever been runined by a discovery flight or taking the controls under a CFI's supervision without ground school preparation or a course on aerodynamics. When my son took his first lesson the CFI had him assist with the pre-flight inspection then they took to the sky, hit the practice area and my son took the controls. When they returned a future pilot was born.

Paul, sounds good to me.
I think Bob's idea of starting with a weather brief and a preflight is good. It gets it in the mind of the student that there are a couple of things that need to be considered before getting in the plane, it;s not like a car.
However, you could easily spend 2 hours on just weather and getting weather and resulting decisions. So the CFI needs to speed up that process for the first few lessons. When the student is about to go on his cross country then may be the time to really get deeper into weather.
As for preflight, seems to me it should take about 10 or 15 for a normal walk around. It does not need to be a lecture on what an ELT is or what the different antennas are. When you are doing a night flight or a IMC flight then there needs to me more detail and emphasis on preflight and nav lights and pitot heat, etc.

Bill - thanks for the compliment. Please understand, I am not talking about a full ground school lesson on these topics before the first flight. Rather, it's to show the newbie that it's not like jumping into a car, as you said. It's also to pull them into the process and make them feel like pilots ("What do you think? Should we go?). My little procedure adds about 20 minutes to the whole process.By getting pilots into the habit of preflight actions early, I really am trying to preclude people from running out of gas "30 seconds from the airport..."

Back when I was instructing....

Intro flights: I did the weather check & I did the preflight before they got there. I did walk around and point out the main parts of the aircraft. I ran the checklists and did what I could to get them into the air as quickly and as stress-free as possible. After takeoff they flew it all until short final. No steep banks, no rapid maneuvering, and NO TURBULENCE. If it was bumpy I cancelled. One lousy flight can ruin a prospective student.

After that: all instructional flights were basically as described earlier - weather briefing and preflight by student. I made them carry around the preflight checklist until they could demonstrate they had it memorized. Lights were checked only if flying at night. The very act of checking them shortens bulb life, and is no guarantee they won't fail the next time you turn them on. Same for pitot heat.

Here's what I wrote on the subject on the old forums back before my checkride:

(The italicized quote format is tiresome, so I removed the quote tags)

As a soon to be ex-student, I thought I might share some observations on what makes a CFI a teacher rather than an instructor.

My current instructor is actually my second; I switched from my first after two hours. The biggest reason I dumped the first one was purely physical - I didn't want to train for one license (Sport Pilot) in an aircraft designed for another (172, and therefore Private). But a large part was the sense that he was teaching me to fly a plane in a purely mechanical way, with little context of the why. Do X, get Y. He also was very quiet with little by way of feedback, trying for aloof but coming off as bored. I got the impression he might be logging time as a CFI on the way to other career goals, and it didn't really matter who was in the left seat for this hour. He also sniffed at the notion of Sport Pilots.

In other words, a perfect case of instructor/student mismatch on a whole lot of levels. He's competent and I don't want to sell him too short in one paragraph, especially since I only had two lessons with him; but at around 200 bucks an hour I don't have the fiscal patience to build up report.

My current instructor, however, really impressed me from the get-go. He asked why Sport Pilot rather than Private, but in a way that came off as wanting to make sure that it fit my flying desires. The answer is simple - I have no desire to fly when I can't see out of the aircraft (night, bad weather, mist, etc) and so learning a bunch of skills that would simply evaporate over time due to disuse seemed wasteful. Likewise, I'm building my own plane which will fall under LSA qualifications, so it's a fit.

He took that at face value and then asked a few general medical questions - just small talk around the edge sort of stuff that eventually lead to "do you have any reason to believe you would fail a flight physical?" It sounded pretty weird, but he later explained that some people think of Sport Pilot as a doctor dodge, and if you're not well enough to fly a 172 you shouldn't be flying a CTLS (I agree). I didn't get the physical, though. Not because I'm afraid of it, but because it's one less thing I can fail to go get at the appropriate time (I'm infamous for failing to get my car tags and driver's license renewed on time).

And then he laid out the syllabus, including a rough timeline by hours with a lot of caveats ("if you have trouble with something, we'll spend more time on it until you can do it safely," and "it also depends on how often you can fly."). While my first instructor was more than willing for me to just show up, fly my hour with him, pay, and be on my way, my second asked if I had ground school study materials ("No." "Order some tonight - I have some recommendations.").

Oh oh. This guy's serious about this, and expects me to be, too!

Plus he had an LSA available to train in, so I'm using the right gear for the right task.

During my first pre-flight with him I got corrected quickly for grabbing the checklist and starting right in on it. "Whoa, what are you doing? Before you get six inches to the airplane, come back here about ten feet and just look at it. Does it look right? See any bird crap on it, which means maybe one got in the hangar and is trying to start up a nest somewhere, or dirt daubers flying around? Are there oil stains or gas slicks under it? Is it sitting level? The check list is a guide, but it's not an inspection."

My whole experience with him has been like that - one doesn't enter into the pattern at a 45 at the correct altitude because that's the book answer, one does it because that's where other pilots will be looking for you. Don't rely on the radio - look, look, LOOK around; not everybody has a radio (we fly in uncontrolled airspace) and pilots are people (this demonstrated itself to me quite literally when on my second hour of solo a fellow was one airport over from where he thought he was and went right pattern on a left pattern strip, without a radio and matching me on the downwind on the other side! I went long to base and let him have it.). Follow the rules not because they're the rules, but because almost everyone else does and that makes things safer....and most of the rules actually are there for very good reasons. But always watch because it's only almost everyone else.

So I've been getting PILOT training - how to think as part of the whole of aviation rather than simply flight training operating as one guy in a finite universe the size of the aircraft.

The funny thing is that the why and the context really help out on the mechanical operations. Why the pattern? Because it's consistent, and if you fly consistently you'll get fairly consistent results. Why was I all screwy after my turn to final? Because I cut my turn in to base too soon; and I cut it too soon because I was too high on the pass of the numbers and fell into the trap of using a landmark instead of paying attention to the aircraft and adjusting for it ("Learn landmarks and you'll land here; learn distances, altitudes and airspeeds and you'll be able to land anywhere.").

I'm pretty typical for a Sport Pilot student - 45, bald, and motivated. I'm used to learning things within broader context, and really do need to know the why of things; not to challenge them, but to understand how it fits into the larger scheme. I actually do the homework assigned, and don't mind the pop quiz to find out what I don't know, so give them both to me. I can take it when I'm not making the grade and need more training on something (I think I'm gonna get a bumper sticker that reads ASK ME ABOUT CROSSWINDS), and I appreciate an acknowledgement when I get stuff right.

And I don't need a friend. I don't need a driving instructor. I need a teacher and mentor. Lucky for me, I got one.

(End quotation!)

Now Jim helped me through to my checkride with 26 hours in my log book, and now I'm torturing him with tailwheel training (Ask me what "frangible" means and how it relates to landing lights), thanks in large measure to the professional manner of that first lesson with him.

He was just as interested in teaching me to be a pilot as I was in becoming one, and it really came through.

"What do other students or CFI s think a first lesson should be?" I think Bob Miller's Flight Training does it right. Check out "Over the Airwaves". You can't learn if you are not interested. A teacher teaches what he is paid to teach. An instructor teaches what the student wants to learn. We are flight instructors and the student wants to fly, not inspect the airplane. Inspection is primarily a maintenance function and secondarily a pilot function as necessary for safety of flight. On the first flight the CFI is responsable for safety of flight. He should be instructing the student on the principles and proceedures for flight. He should mention that the pilot is the final authority to determine the the aircraft is airworthy and that he has accomplished that task. He may then ask if the student would like more details as to how that is accomplished or if he is ready to go for a flight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood

But really THE BIG RISK of a first flight, Discovery or lesson is that the student is bored and won't come back or tell his friends how much fun and how easy it is.
A lot of flight school have closed over the years, a lot of CFIs out of a job or at best a subsistence living. Used to be most every airport and most FBOs had a flight school. Not anymore. Why did they fail? Sure wasn't because a nav light was not given enough attention on a CAVU day. The real risk is the CFI and school going out of business because their marketing and people skills are bad. Of course the economy and cost of flying are part of it , maybe the biggest part. ....I think I have read 40% of students drop out, is that about the facts?

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Bill THANK YOU!

This is a GREAT topic!

My wife was interested in flying and NEARLY GOT TALKED OUT OF BEING A PILOT BY THE WAY SHE WAS TREATED SHOPPING FOR LESSONS!

Points:

1. Drop out rate. 40%? No try over 70% according to figures quoted at AirVenture. The SAFE "fix the industry and training" committees think the fatality/accident rate is causing the problem. NOPE. The people that sign up and drop out already know that issue. The issue is POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE BY CFI's and training centers!

2. Cart before the horse. How many people teach children to change the oil and plugs before a RIDE in a car? How many people have gone to buy a new or used car and had the sales person start out by showing you how to check the oil level and tire pressure? Sure they will LET you if you are interested but 99.9% you take the thing for a couple of spins around the block first.

3. Good Instructor / Bad Instructor. I do advanced technical training (non aero) for a living. After EACH class the students evaluate me on my performance. If my performance falls below acceptable levels I AM OUT OF A JOB. Where do CFI's get honest anonymous feedback on their performance from the flight training students?? If students drop out on a CFI or business falls off, from what I have seen they just blame it on something else.

4. The Learning Instructor. How do instructors know what they are doing right and wrong? Why did the student's that did not complete training REALLY drop out? Unless there are anonymous exit interviews there is no way for instructors to get important feedback on their own training styles and techniques and therefore no way to improve or correct weaknesses from the customers point of view.

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