Printable View
Hello,I'm hoping to get some route/flying advice for a late June VFR cross country from Chicago to Sacramento. The airplane, a Marquart MA-5 Charger, is a 150hp normally aspirated two seat open cockpit biplane. I have several hundred hours in the airplane but it has been pretty much limited to low density altitude airports.Me... 46 years old, Comm, SEL, MEL, Inst, Glider with around 1400 hrs.Any help, advice, wisdom, or other useful information is appreciated.Thanks,Glenn
It's good that you're aware that density altitude might affect you. I don't know the normal power settings for your aircraft, but in a C-172, if you set takeoff power to 2250 RPM instead of the normal full throttle (better have a long runway), you'll get some taste of the effect of density altitude, though it won't be complete. Another analogy is that a C-182, on a warm day at 5,000 ft., will accelerate, take off and climb much like a C-172 at sea level.
But the big rocks sticking up will have some potentially dangerous effects, as well, and some mountain flying instruction would be very beneficial. Failing that, keep in mind that when winds aloft get up in the 20 kts plus range, it's usually best to stay out of the mountains, due not only to turbulence, but to up and down drafts, often exceeding the performance capabilities of your aircraft. Even in lower wind conditions, approach most any ridge with at least a couple of thousand feet of extra altitude, and at roughly a 45º angle, allowing you to turn away from that ridge more quickly if you hit sudden sink. And if visibility is under 20-30 miles, you may wish to not go, as visibility out here in the mountain west is normally in excess of 60 miles, and often over 100 miles, so lower vis could mean weather moving in. And if you see lenticular clouds, that's a sign of strong winds aloft and often some rather severe turbulence under them, in the form of rotors -- there may be rotor clouds, but not always. And note that it's a lot smoother flying, generally, in the morning hours before 10 or 11. After that you'll often get thermals that bounce you around a lot.
Finally, I'd strongly suggest that you talk to local folks at whatever airport you land at, asking for advice about anything in their area that might be a problem. But if you can, get some mountain flying training, also, as you'll learn a LOT. I've just scratched the surface here, and other may have some tidbits to add, but do at least get local advice as you progress through the areas. Hazards aren't necessarily the same everywhere.
Inuss,Thank you for the reply. I found several route suggestions that I'll be considering. I'm also thinking about closing up the front cockpit since I'll likely be solo on this trip.-Glenn
150 hp should be adequate., I used to fly a small biplane, Rose Parakeet from a 8000 ft elevation airport, with 150 hp, obvoilsy your Charger is larger and somewhat heavier. Go out one day and try your plane, climb up to the service ceiling or up to 15,000 or so and see what it does. Generally, especialy in June, flying is nicer early in the day, less wind and turbulence. Most of your trip is not going to be over mountains. For real mt flying, go when the weather is good or dont go, And there are usually lower routes, through passes, valleys and over highways instead of directly over 14,000 ft peaks. Remember airports and fuel will be farther apart as you go west. If you are going to spend much of your time cruising above 10,500 it really is good to have portable oxygen and legally required for cruise above 12,000. I woudnt want to fudge it much, over 15,000 can put one to sleep.
I will speak up since I have flown that route in an under-powered antique airplane.
In June density altitude will be less of a worry than July and August.
Fly I-80. Makes navigation easy, all of the runways across southern Wyoming are 6000-7000' long, and if you have a problem, mechanical or weather, you can land on the highway and flag down help. Towns across Wyoming, Utah, and Nevada are relatively far apart so following the highway in unfamiliar territory improves the comfort factor. I-80 also crosses the Wasatch into Utah at a relatively low point. If you try to cross farther north you will need to stagger up to a higher altitude.
When you go into one of the airports on the route, circle once overhead and look at the hills around your takeoff route. When flying at higher field elevations and density altitudes you will want to remember where the valleys go so that if your climb rate is less than you are used to, you can follow the best valley.
The operating procedure that most lowlanders have the most trouble with is leaning on takeoff. At 6000' field elevation you can't hurt the engine by over-leaning for takeoff but you can give yourself poor performance by taking off with the mixture control all of the way in. And don't rush the takeoffs. The runways are long so let the airplane accellerate and don't force or rush things.
There are likely to still be some snow caps on the front range in early June. Really pretty.
The Sierra Nevada are actually pretty narrow. If you go south of I-80 to Carson City or Minden Nevada for fuel, you will find that you will have to circle for 45 minutes to get high enough for the 45 minute trip across the Sierra and Lake Tahoe. Watch the sailplanes to find the lift and avoid the sink. Another very pretty hop.
A great trip across some alternately beautiful and desolate country.
Best of luck,
Wes
N78041
Thanks again for all the input. :) Sound like I've got a flight to get busy planning out the details on :)-Glenn
I learned to fly at 5042 ft with 8000ft mountains in the vicinity. There were a few rules of thumb:
1. lean for taxi to avoid fouling plugs
2. Lean for takeoff to get full power
3. Vy increases and ROC decreases at higher density altitude - check your POH (cessna climb performance tables are an excellent example)
4. Fill gas tanks in the evening or early morning as heat causes fuel to expand/vaporize and exit thru vents.
5. Depart early morning while the density altitude and winds are low.
6. Follow the interstates and major roads as these are near civilization and built thru the easiest land route
7. Use flight following
"....you can land on the highway and flag down help..."
With a Marquart MA5's 24' span, that should work fine most places on an interstate highway out west. In many states it's not even against the law. In some, it probably is. Don't show your driver's license or you may get a moving violation on your driver's record. Show some other photo ID and your pilot certificate. Be aware of road signs. Be aware of possible wires across the road, because even though low individual wires are less likely there than on other roads, well, be aware of wires. Landing with traffic is usually preferable to against traffic. Be aware the car you land behind may jam on brakes for a panic stop when you appear in the rear-view mirror. If you can choose, land near an exit ramp. There, that's all the stuff I've learned. Others probably know more. Your mileage may vary.
The video of the T-6 a few years back forced landing in heavy traffic on freeway just off Fon du Lac airport is amazing, just missed a cop car and no one injured, damaged the wing somewhat.
The man who owns this made the same trip in this. He told me that when he asked for flight following ATC asked...You are how high and flying what again?..lol He said or told me he said....9000' in a gyro. ATC asked why so high, he said to stay out of the heat, This was the summer of 2012 I do believe. He said ATC never said another word about it...lol
Attachment 6138
Don't go west at 9000 ft, that's an ifr altitude going east, not good to be head on to traffic.
He was traveling East from the west.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood
Since gyro copter is likely VFR , then 7500 or 9500 ft going east.
At this time it looks like following I-80 out all the way to the Sac Valley is the way to go.
I'll have my mounted hardwired Ipad with Foreflight, Comm, Mode C, ADS-B Out, plus a SPOT.
This will be an adventure.
Thanks for all the great tips. I'll be reading up more in the months to come!
-Glenn
Truckee or Donners pass will be the real challenge.
Yup, cannibalism is still a thing there.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1600vw
I lived in Sacramento and at night it was always a sight to see the lights from the cars coming over Donner pass. Standing at almost sea level and watching lights that are thousand of feet in the air is something to see at night.
I am based at Reno-Stead. Coming through the Reno Area, Reno-Stead (KRTS) has nice big runways and while not the cheapest fuel, it's reasonable. Out of Stead it's fairly easy to get to 8500-10,500 to cross Donner Pass following I-80. The only challenge night be the date you come through. June 7-10 is the Pylon Racing School (PRS) at Stead (to qualify to race in September). The airport will not be closed but a race tower will be operating and there will be lots of fast-moving traffic in the area. For specific procedures check http://steadusers.org, the website of the Stead tenants. They will post the local procedures for operations during PRS. And keep an eye on the winds, especially in the afternoon. We have a front going through today and when I got up this morning Stead was 35G49. If you stop in Reno look us up - EAA Chapter 1361 (https://eaa1361.org/chapter-contacts/)
Glenn;
I've made flights from Chicago area to home base in Big Bear, CA (L35) many times and from Big Bear to Sacto area. MY advice is to take the southern route near Alburquerque to avoid high Rocky mtns, especially if you are not mtn savy. I'd plan to go from Chicago to north of KC to panhandle of OK. It's all flat. From Guymon, OK to Tucumcari, NM following the sw trending hwy. At Tucumcari, head west toward ABQ, again fairly flat and drop south of ABQ toward indian country west of ABQ. In eastern AZ, Holbrook is a fuel stop. Continue west past Sedona to Kingman. Cross the Colorado River around Laughlin into eastern Calif over Mojave Desert to Apple Valley which is low at 3000'. From Apple Valley continue west, remaining south of Edwards AFB restricted areas toward Bakersfield. Once in the central CA valley, head north to Sacramento along hwy 99 with low land and lots of small airports.
If you travel over deserts in June, they will get turbulent after 1pm so you need to arrange early morning flying. I'd be in the air at 6am with good daylight. Thunderstorms should not be a problem in June but with the weird wet winter we are getting, who knows.
I live in Big Bear but would not advise stopping here because of high local mtns at 8500'. The most important factor for takeoff in mtns is leaning engine for best power before rolling. We have lost many planes here from lack of that. By purposely staying south of Rockies, you avoid mtn situations.
Pull up Skyvector World VFR map to plan trip.
Bob H
Most of my 44 years of flying has been in the Mountain West, primarily Wyoming and Colorado, with some excursions into Utah, Idaho, Nevada, and California. I've also been east as far as Ohio and New York, and I regularly attend OSH, but that's easy stuff compared to the high DAs of the West. So my suggestions are based on my own experience.
If I were flying a strictly VFR airplane from Chicago to Sacramento, and assuming that you have a navcom in addition to your Foreflight program and a GPS (or even if you don't), I'd follow V6 all the way. It's a whole lot less tiring than trying to keep an eye on the twists and turns of any highway. Certainly you can make slight excursions right or left for fuel or food, and if I were doing it, I'd certainly use Flight Following, but again, all of that is easier if you stick with the airways.
Coming from Chicago, the last time I was in Dubuque, they didn't have a new operator for the on-field restaurant as of last summer. The FBO, which is very accommodating, lent me a car to run to McDonald's down the road.
There's a nice cafe at Grand Island, and Tregor Dugan is an excellent FBO. I've overnighted there several times on the way back from OSH (getting older and tireder after X hours of flying), and each time they've found room in a hangar, plus they have arrangements with local motels for less expensive accommodations.
Ed Nelson at Sydney Aviation is a really decent guy, and if you want to visit the Cabela's flagship store there, call ahead half an hour before landing and the van will be waiting for you. You can eat there and tour the store, which is a real jewel.
If instead of going direct on V6, you take V138 to Cheyenne, there's a nice restaurant on the field. The FBO has changed hands, so I don't have any information about it now.
You can hop over the Summit on V118 to Laramie--very accommodating FBO run by the airport, and you can borrow a car to run into town. Similarly, though, if you stop at Rawlins, you can borrow a car and run into town to eat. You cannot get better real Mexican food than at Rose's Lariat, on the south side of the main street coming into Rawlins from the airport. Little dinky family owned place, with zero ambiance but superb food.
On west, the Rock Springs Airport is way, way outside of town, and the Green River airport is a rough, dirt strip with no services in spite of its name, Greater Green River Intergalactic Spaceport--not even for the Starship Enterprise. So neither is a great place to stop, although for fuel, the RKS FBO is fine.
Surprisingly, KSLC, Salt Lake City's Class B airport, is very accommodating to GA aircraft. The FBOs are at the south end of 17. But although I haven't been there, you'd probably pick Ogden at the north end of the Class B area instead.
I can't help much from there west until Reno, and I found Reno to be a very pleasant place. I've only been there for the Air Races, so it was really busy, but very accommodating at Reno Tahoe International (Reno Stead was closed due to the Races).
From Reno, it's just a hop, skip, and jump to Sacramento. Sounds like a fun trip!
Cary
PS: Don't forget to lean! :)
C
Just wanted to post here to mention that I made the trip happen! Finished it on June 28, 4 Days flying, 20.4 hours total on the Hobbs.
What a trip! No major issues. http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/fo...le%20happy.gif Followed I-80 the entire way.
Pictures can be viewed either at:
https://www.facebook.com/freerangequ...6632968&type=3
OR
http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthre...t=12201&page=3
Congratuations!
Thanks for sharing the adventure.
Nice! That plane looks familiar? Is that Charger built by Remo Galeazzi (sp?)