Free Flying Lessons

Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders said at a campaign event in Seattle that every person in the United States should have the opportunity to learn to fly … and that the lessons should be free.

So says http://www.aero-news.net/ANNTicker.c...b-a3799ec9d8ef

Continuing:

“The ability to learn to fly an airplane should not be limited to those with a lot of money.” Sanders said. “Every person who desires to learn to fly and maybe pursue a career as a pilot shouldn’t have to worry about how they’re going to pay for it. The joy of flight should not be reserved for the top one percent,” Sanders said. “Here in Boeing’s back yard, you know there is going to be a pilot shortage that could be very damaging to the industry. The government needs aviation to be strong, so we should make it possible for young people to pursue this career without the burden of a huge debt at the end of the process. We’ve proposed that other education should be free, and this just makes sense.”

Sanders said that it only makes sense that if the training is going to be provided free, then the airplanes should be free as well. “We know that not everyone in the country is going to want to learn to fly, so we should be able to provide the airplanes as well,” Sanders said. “This is a possible career path, so we need to make as many tools as possible available to give them the best chance at success.

I would like to see the pilot community pick up on this and carry the issue to the public. Truth is the FAA is responsible for issuing pilot certificates and can not, by law, charge for their services. The FAA flatlly refuses to do their required job and instead farms this obligation out to private contractors who can and due charge for their services. Sanders has a seat in the US Senate and is a position to do something about this.

What action has he actually attempted towards this issue?

Please join the cause to advance or expose this issue. Is it a scam or a genuine issue and goal? How does it fit with the FAA reauthorization and the third class medical reform?

Do not let statements like this stand without followup.

Did you happen to note the date on the article?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dana

Did you happen to note the date on the article?

---

ANN April 1 Special Edition

Help! Have I been Campbelled again?

But, the issue remains.

The FAA exists to protect the public and should be financed from the general fund and should perform their designated functions. Why do private contractors make a profit from government mandated actions? This is the crony politics that Burney gets votes from.

FAA part of "the good ole boy conglomerate" who coulda guessed it? If you want a free pilot's education join the military after you get out of college. Or at 14 you can get into CAP (civil air patrol) and they will steer you in the direction. And there is ROTC to start your path. One with a strong determination will find a way.

Do what good ole Bruce did and change your gender. From what I have read there is a group in California who help women get a Certificate at a reduced rate or almost free. But they only do this for women. You would need to remove the kick stand first.

Tony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1600vw

Do what good ole Bruce did and change your gender. From what I have read there is a group in California who help women get a Certificate at a reduced rate or almost free. But they only do this for women. You would need to remove the kick stand first.

Tony

---

Is this supposed to be funny? Since when this forum become a venue for you to take potshots at marginalized populations? Please take your bigoted behavior off this forum and post it on your Facebook page instead where you can be blocked by those not wishing to see your brand of hate. Saying it's a "joke" is NOT an excuse.

Good day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VFR-on-top

Is this supposed to be funny? Since when this forum become a venue for you to take potshots at marginalized populations? Please take your bigoted behavior off this forum and post it on your Facebook page instead where you can be blocked by those not wishing to see your brand of hate. Saying it's a "joke" is NOT an excuse.

Good day.

---

No you missed the point. Women get free or reduced training. In other words. if you are a man and would like free training or training at a reduced price. Change to a women or change your gender. Then you can have all the reduced training you like. Now if you do not like people changing gender, don't beat on me. I am not the one doing these surgeries. Nothing about what I posted was to be funny. It's a fact. There is a group in California who give reduced training to women. It's a fact.

Please show me where I said that post was a joke...You did that. I was serious. Also please show me where I "hate" as you put it. I made a comment. You are the one who turned it into hate.

My comment was about the discrimination of men in today's world. Women can get reduced flight training. But in order to get this as a man one must change. Most don't get it. It's called..Discrimination. If a group of men did this and did not include women we would be hearing...Discrimination being yelled by these women or others.

There was hate and anger in your post. Attack me. I will not call you names. When did you become the Police for this forum. Telling people who can be here and who can not?




Tony

When I saw the title to this thread, the article I read, I believe it was in an EAA magazine a year or so ago, that article popped into my head. I read an article about a group of people, I believe this was started by one woman. But they offer reduced training to women. When I read this I thought, now these folks get it. They understand what is needed in order to turn the tide or direction aviation is heading for this group.

But I also thought, wait a min. Why only this group of people or gender? If this was the opposite gender doing this for their gender, others would be yelling FOUL. With the condition or state general aviation is heading today, we need more of this across the board.

I myself agree with many others, the time for free crap in this world or country needs to end. If you want free crap go work for it. But saying this, this group out in California doing this training for these women, they must have figured it out. I say if they can do it so can others.

So in aviation if you want free or reduced training. Be born a women or change. I did not make the rules but this seems to be how it is.

If you view this as hate, I see what the problem in this country really is.

Tony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jedi

The FAA exists to protect the public and should be financed from the general fund and should perform their designated functions. Why do private contractors make a profit from government mandated actions? This is the crony politics that Burney gets votes from.

---

This comment was written by a person who has tried to book a sport pilot practical exam with an FAA examiner, perhaps?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1600vw

Please show me where I said that post was a joke...

---

You said: "You would need to remove the kick stand first."

Also, her name is Caitlyn.

I'm not the forum police, but I am a paying member of the EAA just as you are. If you're going to mock trans people (or any marginalized populations), you don't get to do it here. (EAA forum rules re: what you cannot do: Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information;)

The "kickstand" comment contributes to further marginalizing of trans people who are already physically assaulted and murdered because an ugly element of society has "normalized" joking about trans people.

Secondly, the "kickstand" comment is factually incorrect. Not all trans people have their genitals changes. Some cannot afford the surgery, others are medically unable to have the surgery. Other trans people are intersexed -- born with vague genitals or both, There are about 23 types (variations of XY and extra chromosomes) of intersex people. Many of whom, the doctor attending their birth, choose a gender for them based wholly on a guess that leads to tragic consequences later in life. Intersex people are quite common and are flyers as well. Most certainly a number of them are members of the EAA and are likely posting in this forum.

So when you refer to Caitlyn as "Bruce" and make mocking comments like "kickstands", you are silently stabbing them in heart and twisting the blade.

If one wants to make a point about women and free education, it can be done without mocking trans people (or any other marginalized population).

Good day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VFR-on-top

You said: "You would need to remove the kick stand first."

Also, her name is Caitlyn.

I'm not the forum police, but I am a paying member of the EAA just as you are. If you're going to mock trans people (or any marginalized populations), you don't get to do it here. (EAA forum rules re: what you cannot do: Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information;)

The "kickstand" comment contributes to further marginalizing of trans people who are already physically assaulted and murdered because an ugly element of society has "normalized" joking about trans people.

Secondly, the "kickstand" comment is factually incorrect. Not all trans people have their genitals changes. Some cannot afford the surgery, others are medically unable to have the surgery. Other trans people are intersexed -- born with vague genitals or both, There are about 23 types (variations of XY and extra chromosomes) of intersex people. Many of whom, the doctor attending their birth, choose a gender for them based wholly on a guess that leads to tragic consequences later in life. Intersex people are quite common and are flyers as well. Most certainly a number of them are members of the EAA and are likely posting in this forum.

So when you refer to Caitlyn as "Bruce" and make mocking comments like "kickstands", you are silently stabbing them in heart and twisting the blade.

If one wants to make a point about women and free education, it can be done without mocking trans people (or any other marginalized population).

Good day.

---

Say what you want. It does not give you the right to attack me and call me names. I gave an opinion. You turned that comment into hate. We have a thing called freedom of speech. If you do not like what someone says, it does not give you the right to attack said someone.

Tony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1600vw

Say what you want.

---

You asked me to show you where you made the joke, and now you're dodging your own question.

Quote:

---

It does not give you the right to attack me and call me names. I gave an opinion. You turned that comment into hate. We have a thing called freedom of speech. If you do not like what someone says, it does not give you the right to attack said someone.

Tony

---

"Opinion" or not, you have no freedom of speech here. You have to comply with the EAA's TOS re: forum use. Hate "opinions" on matters such as race, religion, gender, sexual orientation and so on, don't belong in public forums such as this one. To continue to argue that deliberate misgendering and "kickstand" joking is "free speech" and/or "opinions" is an insult to those who have to enforce the EAA's TOS. This is an airplane forum. Please move on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VFR-on-top

You asked me to show you where you made the joke, and now you're dodging your own question.






"Opinion" or not, you have no freedom of speech here. You have to comply with the EAA's TOS re: forum use. Hate "opinions" on matters such as race, religion, gender, sexual orientation and so on, don't belong in public forums such as this one. To continue to argue that deliberate misgendering and "kickstand" joking is "free speech" and/or "opinions" is an insult to those who have to enforce the EAA's TOS. This is an airplane forum. Please move on.

---

So do you. Like I said you have more hate in your post then in any post I made. Stop the hating. You have a problem and it's not me. I do not agree with your opinion. Nor do I agree with your level of hate. You could have made your point without resorting to name calling and attacking. But as the world can see from your post you like to attack and call names. You are full of hate.

Tony

P.S. My post was aviation related thank you very much..Good Day

You want free aviation or reduced aviation, women seem to have done it. But it's only a club for women. I don't believe they except anyone with male parts no matter what you call yourself.

Tony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1600vw

You want free aviation or reduced aviation, women seem to have done it. But it's only a club for women. I don't believe they except anyone with male parts no matter what you call yourself.

Tony

---

An aircraft is a machine that doesn't care about the gender, race, or even humanity (think autonomous flight) of the control manipulator. I deeply believe it's way past time for removing most special programs from the airfield. We've done more than most. One aerobatics champion. One fastest. Keep going. No "first all-fill-in-the-blank" crew. No scholarships for green hair or no genitals, etc. Scholarship, effort, accomplishments. Treat all people as people. (No, don't allow computer controlled vehicles to compete against humans. I know the legend of John Henry. But do allow their human owners to compete with each other.) Aviation is a pass/fail course. Injecting political correctness may cause uncontrolled bleeding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike M

An aircraft is a machine that doesn't care about the gender, race, or even humanity (think autonomous flight) of the control manipulator. I deeply believe it's way past time for removing most special programs from the airfield. We've done more than most. One aerobatics champion. One fastest. Keep going. No "first all-fill-in-the-blank" crew. No scholarships for green hair or no genitals, etc. Scholarship, effort, accomplishments. Treat all people as people. (No, don't allow computer controlled vehicles to compete against humans. I know the legend of John Henry. But do allow their human owners to compete with each other.) Aviation is a pass/fail course. Injecting political correctness may cause uncontrolled bleeding.

---

I believe a lot of true blue American's feel this way. Political correctness is killing this country. Watch what you say or someone may get their panties in a bunch. Then call you all sorts of hateful names all in the name of political correctness. They can even attack you and no one will say a word. Why..Political correctness.

If we let this into aviation it will kill aviation as it's killing this country.

Tony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1600vw

. . .

---

A lot of projection and no response to the answer to your own question. OK. Carry on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VFR-on-top

A lot of projection and no response to the answer to your own question. OK. Carry on.

---

I never asked a question. I made a comment and you started hating and never stopped.

Good day

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1600vw

I never asked a question. I made a comment and you started hating and never stopped.

Good day

---

We now return you to your previous forum discussion on Free Flying Lessons.


BJC

This is really pretty silly. >>Truth is the FAA is responsible for issuing pilot certificates and can not, by law, charge for their services. << Yes the FAA issues pilot licences, it does not do pilot training, never was intended to do that, nor was it ever promised.

Bill H.

All - Please stay on topic with this thread.

See attached for a refresher of the EAA Forum Rules: http://eaaforums.org/misc.php?do=showrules

Thank you,
Glory

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byron J. Covey

We now return you to your previous forum discussion on Free Flying Lessons.


BJC

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glory Aulik

All - Please stay on topic with this thread.

See attached for a refresher of the EAA Forum Rules: http://eaaforums.org/misc.php?do=showrules

Thank you,
Glory

---

I am not the one who took this off topic. Please do not point to me as doing this. I tried a couple times to go back on topic. But I am done with this nonsense anyway. We had a hateful person come along and call names and accuse another member of some nasty things. For what reason? If this person had something to say they did not need to call names. They broke all sorts of member rules here. My comment was neither negative or positive towards any group. Because this person got their panties in a bunch look what it has caused. Just like what this kind of actions causes in this country. While we do have freedom of speech. that freedom does not give you the right to attack someone like that happened to me.

As to reduced anything. Its time we all pay our share unless you are not an able body person. Then others can step up and help, and should.

Tony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1600vw

I am not the one who took this off topic. Please do not point to me as doing this. I tried a couple times to go back on topic. But I am done with this nonsense anyway. We had a hateful person come along and call names and accuse another member of some nasty things. For what reason? If this person had something to say they did not need to call names. They broke all sorts of member rules here. My comment was neither negative or positive towards any group. Because this person got their panties in a bunch look what it has caused. Just like what this kind of actions causes in this country. While we do have freedom of speech. that freedom does not give you the right to attack someone like that happened to me.

As to reduced anything. Its time we all pay our share unless you are not an able body person. Then others can step up and help, and should.

Tony

---

My message was directed to everyone on this thread.

Thank you.

This thread shows the problem in aviation today. But it's not just aviation that this type of thing is taking place. If things keep going the way they are in aviation and most everything else, the only way a CFi will do any training is if said lessons are free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike M

This comment was written by a person who has tried to book a sport pilot practical exam with an FAA examiner, perhaps?

---

I have most all of my ratings and cringe when I see what todays students must pay. I encourage my students to bug the FAA about check rides but they give up too easily.

Did you pay $2.00 for your plastic certificate? I got mine with no charge. Thanks FAA. Did your "good forever" aircraft registration expire? Too bad. Can you guess why the aviation industry is in decline?

Last month I visited the FAA Regional Office and picked up a 2014 calendar "at no cost to me". There was a more than adequate supply on the shelf. Also, I got a few copies of the FAA Safety rag. Plenty of money for crap like that but try and get somebody to do their mandated function and good luck with that. Any wonder there are so many planes and pilots with outdated paperwork? Nobody answers the phone. They do 20 minutes of work (renew a CFI certificate) twice a day at most. And yes, the CFI I was issued in 1968 never expired when issued. Now it costs $500 every two years.


My pilot "Yoda" friend walked into the Region Office many years ago to renew his long expired CFI cause he "started getting to many students for spin training" and was ridiculed for how long the "New Renewable Certificate" had been mandated. He walked out of the office with his old certificate after remarking that he "did not have a certificate when he started flying and he would not have a certificate when he quit flying and he didn't see any reason to get one now". He had built and flown some unique aircraft before there was such a thing as an ultralight. Most were well ahead of their time.

Hope 103 lasts a few more years. More info available on request.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1600vw

This thread shows the problem in aviation today. But it's not just aviation that this type of thing is taking place. If things keep going the way they are in aviation and most everything else, the only way a CFi will do any training is if said lessons are free.

---

Can a CFI with a commercial certificate provide free flight training but charge for expenses. I know the FAA lets a private pilot "share expenses" as would be required without the commercial certificate? I would like to charge for travel expenses. I do not see how that would require a commercial certificate and second class (current) FAA physical. Opinions? Comments? Complaints?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jedi

Now it costs $500 every two years.

---

Who am I supposed to be paying the $500 to every two years? I just renewed my CFI in January and didn't pay anything. I need to find out where to mail the check.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by martymayes

Who am I supposed to be paying the $500 to every two years? I just renewed my CFI in January and didn't pay anything. I need to find out where to mail the check.

---

Please mail the check to:
wyoranch
state of Wyoming
U.S.A
trust me the mailman will find me!
Rick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wyoranch

Please mail the check to:
wyoranch
state of Wyoming
U.S.A
trust me the mailman will find me!
Rick

---

Check's in the mail Rick ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by martymayes

Who am I supposed to be paying the $500 to every two years? I just renewed my CFI in January and didn't pay anything. I need to find out where to mail the check.

---

To me. I will PM the address!!

When will you go away?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VP1

When will you go away?

---

As soon as you place her on your "ignore list" in settings like many of us have already done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floatsflyer

As soon as you place her on your "ignore list" in settings like many of us have already done.

---

There's a solution for every problem! Thanks :)