Lycoming Camshaft Inspection

Is there any way short of complete engine disassembly to inspect a Lycoming camshaft and lifters for corrosion........I have an HI0-360-A1A converted to an Experimental I0-360-A1A
several years ago after a complete overhaul..........It was flown less than 20 hours and has not ran or had any long term storage methods done to it.........After hearing the fact that
Lycoming camshafts tend to rust during long periods of nonuse I would like to inspect the cam lobes and the lifters without a complete disassembly if possible...........Help !!

Remove. A front cylinder and you can take a look.

Actually, you need to remove both a front and a rear cylinder to see the entire cam. No other way to get to it.

There is a Lyco SB that describes removing the valve covers, pulling the pushrods out, collapsing the hydraulic valve lifters and measuring the cam lift with a dial gauge.

No easy answers.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

Thanks Guys...........That is better than a complete disassembly..........I presume that a cylinder can be pulled without pulling the piston all the way out........Just enough to remove the piston pin ??

keltro

What you are going to do is turn the engine until your piston is at top dead center, then remove the cylinder so as to slide it right off the piston and gently lower the piston and connection rod until it rests on the case. You can then set the cylinder aside and take a good look at the camshaft lobes. You will need a ring compressor tool on the piston to slide the cylinder back onto it. While you have the cylinder off, you should install a new cylinder base O-ring, unless you know that the one that is there is almost new.

If you yourself are going to do this, just in case you have not done this much, I should mention that when you take the valve rockers out and want to remove the push rods, you want to be carefull not to pull the hydraulic lifters out and/or lose track of them.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

You do not need to remove the piston from the cylinder. Simply pull it out far enough to remove the buttons and the pin. A helper makes this easy to do. A new o ring is definitely a good idea. Done this way you will not need a ring compressor.

I will offer the caution that on some engines, you will find that using the remove the wrist pin method, the wrist pin will not just slide out. Do not hammer it out. You have some leverage from the wrist pin end of the connecting rod into the big end of the connecting rod and you do not want to damage the bearing at the big end. If you run into this, and you are willing to remove more baffling to get space to work, you can rig up a two jaw bearing puller to gently push the wrist pin to get it moving.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keltro

Is there any way short of complete engine disassembly to inspect a Lycoming camshaft and lifters for corrosion........I have an HI0-360-A1A converted to an Experimental I0-360-A1A
several years ago after a complete overhaul..........It was flown less than 20 hours and has not ran or had any long term storage methods done to it.........After hearing the fact that
Lycoming camshafts tend to rust during long periods of nonuse I would like to inspect the cam lobes and the lifters without a complete disassembly if possible...........Help !!

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If it was me I would pull the cylinders off the pistons and inspect the cylinder bores. If they are steel cylinders they may have rust pitting. I have done this several times and reused the same rings with no problems.

When pulling the cylinder be sure to place a clean rag for padding in the crankcase cylinder bore (under the rod) as soon as the cylinder is loose. This will help prevent damage to the crankcase bore if the rod/piston assembly is allowed to drop as the cylinder is pulled free.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WLIU

There is a Lyco SB that describes removing the valve covers, pulling the pushrods out, collapsing the hydraulic valve lifters and measuring the cam lift with a dial gauge.

Wes
N78PS

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Do you happen to have the Lycoming Service Bulletin number, that describes process for checking cam using cam lift measurements? How about a web link to the service bulletin?

Also, about how long does this procedure take if being done for the first time?

About how long should the procedure take, assuming one has done it a few times already?

Thanks, Wayne

First, some of how Lyco suggests that the valve tappet assemblies should be handled is described here - http://www.lycoming.com/Portals/0/te...0Lifter....pdf

The procedure that you are interested in is mostly described here - http://11hc.44rf.com/manuals/engine-prop/lycoming/aerosportspower-library/360_series_ops_manual/sec_5-maintenance.pdf

How long will it take? If you budget a half hour per cylinder you are unlikely to be disappointed. Someone who has done it a few times can likely do it much faster, but I think that a half hour is a safe guess.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

Thanks. I probably should have mentioned that I have a Lycoming 0-235. I am not sure if it has hydraulic lifters. I think it has solid lifters. If solid lifters, then using a dial gauge to "map" the lift on each cam lobe should be fairly easy, unless I am missing something. Is anyone aware of Lycoming data sheets that specify the allowable limits on the cam lobe lift profiles? Is there more to this than I am thinking?

if the 0-235 has hydraulic lifters, then I need the procedure on how to deal with the lifters, so the hydraulics don't impact the dial gauge when mapping each cam lobe. I can't find this procedure in the referenced materials. Any additional ideas, references?

thanks, Wayne

The docs that I linked to speak to hooking hydraulic lifters out with some safety wire (never a magnet), collapsing them, and putting them back. You then reassemble the valve train on the cylinder and put a dial gauge on the rocker arm. Rotate the prop and measure the lift. There is an SB tha has the limits. Google should find it for you.

For an O-235, even if you do not know the exact tolerances, what you can do is check all of the valve lifts, then compare all of the exhaust and all of the intake valve numbers. Typically one lobe fails but the others are OK. It is unusual for them all to wear down at the same time. So by checking them all and doing the comparison you can get a good idea whether you have a problem.

It sounds like you do not yet own a parts book and overhaul manual for your engine. Both books have lots of useful information in them. Highly recommended that you have them on your shelf.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

One thing that I do when trying to leave the piston in the cylinder by removing the wrist pin, and it usually works, is once you get the pin exposed to the point where it can be pushed out is to heat the pin bosses of the piston and the end of the rod with a hot air gun. By doing this I have seldom ever had to resort to applying force to the wrist pin. It does get hot so you will need some gloves. Even if you plan to leave the pistons in the cylinders it is a good idea to have the ring compressor handy. Things don't always go according to plan.

Not checking dry tappet clearance with a hydraulic tappet engine is the most common error in field cylinder replacement. Do not mix pushrods because the dry tappet clearance is adjusted by installing push rods of different lengths.

As Wes mentioned, you should not attempt any of these procedures without the appropriate manuals/parts list.

If the engine is not making metal particles in the oil filter, do you really need to tear it that far apart?
Of course if there are particles that might mean a problem.
I think it would be an easier first step to run it for 10-15 hours and check the filter.

Thought just crossed my scrambled mind.
If a home-builder buys a Lycoming for future install on beloved fruit of his labors, why not put some fresh oil in it, plug the breather, and store the engine UP-SIDE-Down, keeping the cam immersed in OIL?
Hard to do if it is mounted but not before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood

If the engine is not making metal particles in the oil filter, do you really need to tear it that far apart?
Of course if there are particles that might mean a problem.
I think it would be an easier first step to run it for 10-15 hours and check the filter.

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As an A&P and first hand knowledge, best take a look.
Last annual on my O-360 A4M, I discovered a cracked head.
I pulled #4 cly. Piston skirt was impregnated w/sparkly stuff.
Took a peek at the cam.....SHOT!!!!!
I change oil at 50hr intervals, have a oil filter that is opened and inspected at every oil change and the screen is also always removed and checked for fodder.
NO SIGNS OF IMMINENT DANGER!
When I dismantled the engine, in the bottom of the oil sump (left rear) were the remains (Grindings) of the cam and lifters!
The way the oil sump is designed with the bottom mounted Carburetor, there are webs that are just high enough to prevent the last 1/8 inch oil in that corner of the sump from making it to the oil pump intake port. HMMMMMM.
Lots of stuff sitting in the 1/8" of oil!
Again, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW, Pull#4 and either #1 or #2 and visually inspect the cam.
If you don't find anything amiss, Great!! You will now feel safe flying behind that engine.
If the cam shows wear and / or the pistons have a little sparkle on the skirts, IT IS TIME TO TAKE THINGS APART.
The parts requiring replacement from pulling the Clys. is a small price to pay for the knowledge gained.
Good luck.
Hope your cam is fine.

"why not put some fresh oil in it, plug the breather, and store the engine"

Lycoming now ships engines after filling them with oil. They are shipped right side up. This prevents corrosion before installation and run. The negative is that when the engine is unpacked, you must drain the oil and remove the intake manifold pipes to flush the oil out of them. If you do not do this step, you first few running hours will see LOTS of fouled plugs as the residual oil on the walls of the intake tubes slowly makes its way into the cylinders and is burned away.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

Hi. Folks

looking to check the cam lift on my engine which is an O-360-A1AD and am trying to find the Lycoming instructions for this procedure. It seems there is a method of using a dial gauge to measure this does anyone have the document number or a link. I’ve googled like mad but can’t dig it up. Thanks

You want the overhaul manual for your engine. The short version is that with the crank turned so that both valves of a cylinder are fully closed, you remove the pushrods and pushrod tubes so that you can fish the hydraulic lifters out, wash the oil out of them, and collapse them. Then you put that back together and measure the dry tappet clearance. The clearance range is in the overhaul manual.

Best of luck,

Wes

Hi. Wes
Thanks for replying, I’ve got the procedure for measuring valve clearance looks to be between .028 and .080 but that is measured with valves closed so the tappet is on the back of the cam lobe. What I would like measure is cam lift with the tappet on the lobe of the cam. That way I can measure at each pushrod to get an idea if the cam is worn. Think there is a procedure using a dial gauge.

The first link link you posted way back in this thread is now not found do you have the details of that document.

Thanks. Ian