Overhauling and updating a Cherokee or similar modest project

Much as I love homebuilts and vintage aircraft, a reality check of my budget suggest that I might want to tackle restoring and updating a modest 1960s-1970s GA aircraft, especially if I want to take more than one family member at a time or much baggage up in the air with me. Not that I will stop dreaming and perhaps buidling a single- or two-seater on the side, but that's another thread. ;-)


I would think that you could start with a time-worn but airworthy Piper Cherokee and then overhaul and update it so it's actually lighter and better performing than it came from the factory. I don't mean putting in glass panels or anything radical, just complete inspections and overhaul, a thorough tear-down and cleaning, new interior and exterior, new lightweight electronics to replace the boat-anchor period ones, removing unwanted IFR equipment for a basic modern VFR panel, lightweight starter and battery, etc. Of course, the mechanical bits would all need to be done and the whole project overseen by an A&P, but there is a lot of elbow grease work that I could do myself.


Does anyone have any links to sites or articles documenting this kind of restoration and update on a modest budget?

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Originally Posted by cluttonfred

Does anyone have any links to sites or articles documenting this kind of restoration and update on a modest budget?

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Define "modest budget."
Restoring a 40 y/o factory airplane isn't cheap but in the end you get a known quantity. I haven't seen many end up "lighter" than before either, usually it's the opposite. But I agree with your overall assessment.

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Originally Posted by martymayes

Define "modest budget."
Restoring a 40 y/o factory airplane isn't cheap but in the end you get a known quantity. I haven't seen many end up "lighter" than before either, usually it's the opposite. But I agree with your overall assessment.

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Here is what I did as the latest project, It's a 1948 Cessna rag wing 170. we bought it for $5k, and we are in it now at $27K, every thing is new, the aircraft was completely disassembled stripped repainted, new windows, new interior, new wiring, new wheels tires and brakes, PeePonk gear mod, tail pull handles, 1 piece windscreen, shoulder harness, new instrument panel, new radios, Engine up grade to a 0-300-D, with a vac pump, 60 Amp Alternator, 6 new cylinders, engine rebuilt to factory new spec. new carb, mounts, oil filter kit, new prop, Whelen 3 light strobe kit, landing light mod to leading edge and the light blinker mo
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we started with a derelict barn find.
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new prop spinner
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Looks fantastic, Tom. Sell it to me? Seriously!

On the restoration, are you (or one of the "we") an A&P or did you have to pay someone to do those parts of the restoration that require sign-off?

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Originally Posted by cluttonfred

Looks fantastic, Tom. Sell it to me? Seriously!

On the restoration, are you (or one of the "we") an A&P or did you have to pay someone to do those parts of the restoration that require sign-off?

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I am the A&P-IA, this is a "we" effort, the wife and I.
We have decided to keep it for a while, gotta get a little flying out of all that work. It took 15 months Nov. 12 to Feb 14,

Ah, there's the rub, you clearly know how to do the things that 1) I can't do on a certified plane and 2) I don't know how to do, anyway. If you do decide to sell, please shoot me a PM--I really was not kidding. Cheers, Matthew

Find a good A&P, that will supervise your work and learn, I had to.

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Originally Posted by cluttonfred

If you do decide to sell, please shoot me a PM--I really was not kidding. Cheers, Matthew

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Make me an offer. ?

Believe me, I would love to be doing just that. Unfortunately, I have a wife and three kids and a job that takes me from country to country around the world--neat in many ways but tough on aviation as a hobby. I'll have to do the crash course (not literally, I hope) once I retire. ;-)

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Originally Posted by Tom Downey

Make me an offer. ?

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I am not going to waste your time, so let me chat with some friends first and get back to you if I get a good reaction. We were considering going in on a plane together to have it shipped out hear to Kenya and a 170 like yours would be perfect for the hot and high conditions here, though I might remove the spinner for easier inspection. If you wouldn't mind PMing me some details (TTAF&E, TSMOH, etc.) I'll see what they say.

Save your time I will not export, it is a real PITA

Really, that's too bad, I have not heard that from the seller's point of view before, I assumed that the paperwork burden would fall on me.

Tom & Matthew,

Tom, exporting an aircraft from and within North America is a relatively simple procedure. You can do it yourself, or better still, you can give the work to a company that specializes in exporting aircraft(there are many) and with your direction, have them charge those costs to the buyer.

Matthew, you are right about the importing paperwork, which for Kenya may be more complex? than for Canada and the US.

I have thought about restoring something like this, I have most of the necessary skills but finding an A&P/IA willing to supervise is not easy.

Matthew, Tom Downey does show quality work and has a long line of restored airplanes to his credit.

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Originally Posted by martymayes

Matthew, Tom Downey does show quality work and has a long line of restored airplanes to his credit.

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It sure looks like it from the pics!

Thanks Marty, this is the end of the line.

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Originally Posted by cluttonfred

I would think that you could start with a time-worn but airworthy Piper Cherokee and then overhaul and update it so it's actually lighter and better performing than it came from the factory. I don't mean putting in glass panels or anything radical, just complete inspections and overhaul, a thorough tear-down and cleaning, new interior and exterior, new lightweight electronics to replace the boat-anchor period ones, removing unwanted IFR equipment for a basic modern VFR panel, lightweight starter and battery, etc. Of course, the mechanical bits would all need to be done and the whole project overseen by an A&P, but there is a lot of elbow grease work that I could do myself.

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You are describing pretty much what I have been doing. Some people enjoy restoring an old car but I prefered that it be an airplane. I purchased a low hour Piper Cherokee that was in reasonable flying condition but not a real 'looker'. The first two annual inspections we concentrated on getting the plane in first class shape mechanically. Last fall I gutted the radio stack and put in a PS Engineering 8000BT audio panel, Garmin com radio and Garmin transponder. This annual we will be doing the control cable inspection AD. This inspection will require a good portion of the interior be removed so I figured this was the perfect time to fully gut the interior and replace it with new leather seating, headliner, carpet and wall panels. I am still waiting for portions of the interior to arrive before we start. My mechanic wanted to wait until all of the parts and materials were on hand before gutting the plane. After I save up and recover from the interior, the final step will be to chemically strip and paint the plane. When that is complete my airplane should be in great shape.

For me it is fun going through the refurbishment process. I know in the long run it will probably cost a little more than buying a plane that has already been upgraded. The big difference for me is that I was able to pay cash for the plane and will be able to save up and pay cash for everything else I have done to it. When I get through I will have THE radio stack that I want, THE interior I want and THE paint scheme and colors I want and not have to live with something marginally close. The best part of all is that I will have done it without going into debt.

Keep in mind that in the long run you may have more money in the plane than you would if you bought someone elses already refurbished plane, but you can spread the cost out over as long a period of time as you need to refurbish it (other than required maintenance).

Thanks, Mick, how about some pics of your project and, if you don't mind, some numbers on initial cost, what you've put in and what you expect to put in to get the plane where you want it to be? Cheers, Matthew

Matthew, I have less than 20K in the initial invenstment for the airplane. The radio stack upgrade cost me $6500. I have attached before and after pictures of the radio stack. The interior parts I have ordered from AirTex, Plane Plastics and Knots2U is around $3500. I'm not sure what the total labor will be for all of the interior work. I can update that after this annual is complete.
Here is a link to the interior I ordered:
http://www.airtexinteriors.com/portf...per PA28 R200#
Attachment 3732Attachment 3733
Down the line, after I get most of my other checklist items done, I want to go back and take out the old com radio I kept for a backup and replace it with something like a Garmin 430W or whatever is current at that time.

After the interior is done I will come back and update this with before and after pictures.

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Originally Posted by MickYoumans

The interior parts I have ordered from AirTex, Plane Plastics and Knots2U is around $3500. I'm not sure what the total labor will be for all of the interior work.

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Well, it could be $0.00, since you can do all that yourself legally.

That is true, but since the mechanic will be removing and installing new windows along with removing a lot of the old interior to do the control cable inspection, I figured it would be easier to just let him reinstall the new stuff. The mechanics brother does interior work and from the reports I have gotten on the quality of his work, it will be better than what I could do. I will probably work with them some on the interior installation but it would be difficult for me to do it all, especially since we are changing out all of the windows too. The window cost was around $800. I forgot to add that in my previous post. I enjoy helping but my work schedule limits my spare time for doing this sort of thing.

You can replace the (side) windows yourself and you can remove all of the interior stuff to let him look at the control cables and then put it in afterwards. Says so right in Part 43. You may want to buy some of your mechanic's time to show you how to start and/or do the first one, but you can legally do the rest yourself and make a logbook entry.

I find that most mechanics are very happy to have the owner do the "monkey work" of taking stuff like interiors apart and put them back. Mechanics have valuable skills, but the stuff you are talking about is not high on their list of stuff that gives them job satisfaction.

And most mechanics are also happy to see an owner want to learn the basic skills from them. They feel better when they know that you want to take care of the machine.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

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Originally Posted by WLIU

You can replace the (side) windows yourself

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I seem to remember something about at least some of the Cherokees that makes removing the windows a "complex" (legally) operation. I can't remember exactly what right now.

It has begun. They gutted my interior today.