EAA Forum, Crazies and You

Having been a part of a number of aviation forums for a good number of years, I think that I've came to a conclusion about the EAA board. There are many good people on here, which do a great deal of good work. There are also quite a few crazies on here, that for some reason, simply cannot stick to the topic or venture off into cheap shots at anything and everything they can, simply because they think they are all knowing on a topic.

Why this happens, I have no idea. Perhaps from a lack of moderation, perhaps its just the way the membership of EAA sees it. Personally, the ones that are most concerning to me are the ones that encourage ignoring federal regulations, simply because they disagree with them or don't like them for some reason.

Its a shame that so many topics get locked here because of what these crazies do. Perhaps rather than locking these threads, there should be some actual moderation and removal of the offending posts. Because what good does simply locking a thread do, when the offenders know they still get their point in and it doesn't get deleted?

I, for one, certainly agree with your observations and recommendation. Other than being self-serving ego trips, sometimes the remarks don't seem to have any merit at all. I certainly feel the moderators ought to do just that- moderate! Also, it is my opinion that bashing the FAA on the basis of "I've been around for a long time and I know better than that" can hardly be useful in a members' or the EAAs' efforts to work together with the Agency. Instead of lathering on the forum about an FSDO or an examiner, if they really feel so strongly, how about simply filing a formal complaint ? More objective, solid forum input can only be to our associative benefit.


Dale

Cessnadriver, You are not alone; there are quite a number of people, sadly, that find one of the most frightening things is to read or listen to something that you do not already agree with.<br>
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Like most of us, you probably learned in school that our country was founded on the idea that if we did not agree with the King, and found no other remedy, then we had the right to dissent and even break away and form a new country and new form of government. What would you have been back then, a colonist or a loyalist?<br>
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In forming the new govt, they embraced some new and democratic policies like freedom of speech and freedom of the press, that have stood the test of time and make our country the envy and model for many others.<br>
You may have learned this in school and even honor this in the abstract, but have a hard time, just like many others do, or actually living by it. <br>
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I cherish, those freedoms, along with right to a jury trial, and they are precisely the ones that dictators abhor and abolish.<br>
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This forum is not a govt, or a country , but I hope it is and will remain open. If you don't like my opinion or others, just don't read them.<br>
In the meantime, I think you have a right to state your opinions, whether fine or foolish, and no one should try to take away that right. But the flip side is you should grant others the same freedom. <br>
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When we have a national election the vote is often about 53% to 47% , for either party. It's not 98% to 2%, so a large portion of the people disagree at any one time , AND HAVE A RIGHT TO.<br><br>Who was the greatest American of our time? A good case can be made for Dr. King, and he was all about the injustice of some laws and civil activism and disobedience to them. The key that made him great is that he could do this with non violence even against some very hateful people.<br>
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And saying that taxes are too high, or TSA is mis focused or something, is different than saying we ought to cheat on our taxes!

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Originally Posted by kscessnadriver

Having been a part of a number of aviation forums for a good number of years, I think that I've came to a conclusion about the EAA board. There are many good people on here, which do a great deal of good work. There are also quite a few crazies on here, that for some reason, simply cannot stick to the topic or venture off into cheap shots at anything and everything they can, simply because they think they are all knowing on a topic.

Why this happens, I have no idea. Perhaps from a lack of moderation, perhaps its just the way the membership of EAA sees it. Personally, the ones that are most concerning to me are the ones that encourage ignoring federal regulations, simply because they disagree with them or don't like them for some reason.

Its a shame that so many topics get locked here because of what these crazies do. Perhaps rather than locking these threads, there should be some actual moderation and removal of the offending posts. Because what good does simply locking a thread do, when the offenders know they still get their point in and it doesn't get deleted?

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Wanna go ride bikes??

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Originally Posted by kscessnadriver

Having been a part of a number of aviation forums for a good number of years, I think that I've came to a conclusion about the EAA board. There are many good people on here, which do a great deal of good work. There are also quite a few crazies on here, that for some reason, simply cannot stick to the topic or venture off into cheap shots at anything and everything they can, simply because they think they are all knowing on a topic.

Why this happens, I have no idea. Perhaps from a lack of moderation, perhaps its just the way the membership of EAA sees it. Personally, the ones that are most concerning to me are the ones that encourage ignoring federal regulations, simply because they disagree with them or don't like them for some reason.

Its a shame that so many topics get locked here because of what these crazies do. Perhaps rather than locking these threads, there should be some actual moderation and removal of the offending posts. Because what good does simply locking a thread do, when the offenders know they still get their point in and it doesn't get deleted?

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This whole board needs a overhaul and I plan on having a meeting with the powers that be about it. I would like to see a adaption of Doug Reeve's web site. http://www.vansairforce.net/ Alot of good info there even if your not building a RV.

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Originally Posted by kscessnadriver

Its a shame that so many topics get locked here because of what these crazies do.

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I hate locking threads and/or deleting posts, believe me. But, to be clear, as I'm writing this, there are a total of 2,478 threads on the board, 27 of which are locked. 12 of those are posts for the photo contest, and they're locked because the entry date has past. Of the remaining 15, there's at least 2 or 3 others that are closed for similar reasons, which leaves roughly a dozen, which amounts to just under one half of one percent. That doesn't strike me as "so many."

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Originally Posted by kscessnadriver

Perhaps rather than locking these threads, there should be some actual moderation and removal of the offending posts. Because what good does simply locking a thread do, when the offenders know they still get their point in and it doesn't get deleted?

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Offending posts *are* deleted, though I'm the first to admit that I use that as a last resort. I'd guess that 9 times out of 10, the offending post is deleted before most readers have actually seen it, and I almost always use the "permanent" delete option, which doesn't leave the "Post deleted" message - it's just gone. (The only time I don't choose that option is when I'm using the Tapatalk app on my phone, which doesn't offer it, as far as I've found.)

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Alot of good info there even if your not building a RV.

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There's also a lot of bad advice, probably just as much as the good, just like any internet forum. The problem is knowing which is which and certainly I would hope the attitudes prevalent on the VAF forums do not come with modeling a rework of this forum with it. As with any group built around a particular type, it becomes treated almost like a religious service and God forbid someone question that it's not perfect or as close to it as possible. People think we have a problem with crazy folks now...I'll take the crazy people (and I would assume that many would label me as one of them because of disagreements over one or more things) over zealots any day. You can reason with someone who is crazy. Trying to reason with a zealot is impossible.

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When we have a national election the vote is often about 53% to 47% , for either party. It's not 98% to 2%, so a large portion of the people disagree at any one time , AND HAVE A RIGHT TO.<br><br>Who was the greatest American of our time? A good case can be made for Dr. King, and he was all about the injustice of some laws and civil activism and disobedience to them. The key that made him great is that he could do this with non violence even against some very hateful people.<br>
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And saying that taxes are too high, or TSA is mis focused or something, is different than saying we ought to cheat on our taxes!

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I think the point in the earlier thread about politics was that it would be nice to not have the same petty bickering on every forum on the internet. What's that old adage about how to have a polite conversation? Something about not bringing up sex, politics or religion if memory serves. Not saying that we shouldn't discuss politics as it applies to aviation at all, but keeping things that are strictly meant to belittle either party or individuals is not germane to the subject matter of this forum off this forum will minimize the chances of provoking a nasty argument or getting threads locked.

Just my two cents...I could be wrong and probably am.

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Originally Posted by steveinindy

There's also a lot of bad advice.

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You are very correct Steve!!. You just have to use some common sense along with knowledge of FAA 4313 along with the ideas you get off the WEB Site. It is kind of like this site, after a while you know who is helpfull and who is selling flight line.

Oh look...a puppy...

Steve, re "politics". The first poster on this topic wrote about us "crazies" supposedly encouraging someone to ignore or violate "federal regulations" . I assume if he brought it up, then it is fair game for my comment.
Note that I am not advocating any political party or candidate here, but what if one side was clearly pro or anti gen and sport aviation?

Do you know what "politics" really are? That's what someone goes to as a last resort when they don't like something someone else says, and they really have no case of their own.

And if you use a broader defintition of "politics as not just elections and candidates; that of government, then aviation is all about "poitics" from regs that the FAA makes to congressional and defense dept decisions on Boeing or Lockheed , etc engine or F35 contracts. How about the Chicago mayor and city closing Meigs Field. Was that "politics"? Should we be able to talk about it here? Or NTSB findings on accidents?

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Originally Posted by kscessnadriver

Having been a part of a number of aviation forums for a good number of years, I think that I've came to a conclusion about the EAA board. There are many good people on here, which do a great deal of good work. There are also quite a few crazies on here, that for some reason, simply cannot stick to the topic or venture off into cheap shots at anything and everything they can, simply because they think they are all knowing on a topic.

Why this happens, I have no idea. Perhaps from a lack of moderation, perhaps its just the way the membership of EAA sees it. Personally, the ones that are most concerning to me are the ones that encourage ignoring federal regulations, simply because they disagree with them or don't like them for some reason.

Its a shame that so many topics get locked here because of what these crazies do. Perhaps rather than locking these threads, there should be some actual moderation and removal of the offending posts. Because what good does simply locking a thread do, when the offenders know they still get their point in and it doesn't get deleted?

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Email EAA Feed Back and tell them of any concerns you may have. <feedback@eaa.org> I Ain't going to Change untill you complain.

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Originally Posted by RV8505

This whole board needs a overhaul and I plan on having a meeting with the powers that be about it. I would like to see a adaption of Doug Reeve's web site. http://www.vansairforce.net/ Alot of good info there even if your not building a RV.

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For the love of God no thank you. We don't need the over-moderation and unexplained deleting of posts that is rampant there (unless you're the site owner's buddies of course). Having a post deleted because one disagrees with another, or thinks something is a bad idea and explains why, etc, that's not what's needed here.

It seems to me that the few posts that have been locked, are the topics which many people get involved in. And almost always politics get drug into the situation. It's a shame, but perhaps its just a reflection on the difference (good or bad) of EAA posters versus other places.

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Originally Posted by Flyfalcons

For the love of God no thank you. We don't need the over-moderation and unexplained deleting of posts that is rampant there (unless you're the site owner's buddies of course). Having a post deleted because one disagrees with another, or thinks something is a bad idea and explains why, etc, that's not what's needed here.

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Amen to that! Over moderation is going to be the death of VAF if they are not careful, and we don't need that to happen here. Over moderation has already spurred one start-up RV-centered unmoderated forum. I support this effort but it needn't have come to this.

Bill- you are a crazy, you post too much, you are wrong more often than not, and I love arguing with you. Frankly, people like you are what make this forum worth participating in. You too Steve ;)

The old saying applies here- "I strongly disagree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Moderate the crazies, and some of the sane types won't find much reason to stick around. Don't fall into this temptation.

Oh, and RV8505- until you decide to post your own name, understand that you have very little credibility here.

[QUOTE=Jeff Point;22131]Amen to that! Over moderation is going to be the death of VAF if they are not careful, and we don't need that to happen here. Over moderation has already spurred one start-up RV-centered unmoderated forum. I support this effort but it needn't have come to this.


I read it it is not much of anything I would want to participate in, The traiffc is real slow. As for Doug's web site, maybe it was better for the sake of the board to cut loose of that contrary 5% that creates 100% of the problems.

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Originally Posted by kscessnadriver

Having been a part of a number of aviation forums for a good number of years, I think that I've came to a conclusion about the EAA board. There are many good people on here, which do a great deal of good work. There are also quite a few crazies on here, that for some reason, simply cannot stick to the topic or venture off into cheap shots at anything and everything they can, simply because they think they are all knowing on a topic.

Why this happens, I have no idea. Perhaps from a lack of moderation, perhaps its just the way the membership of EAA sees it. Personally, the ones that are most concerning to me are the ones that encourage ignoring federal regulations, simply because they disagree with them or don't like them for some reason.

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I largely agree with your first point. I haven't noted instances of your second point, but I do observe them in other forums, so I'm sure it happens here.

I think the civility would improve tremendously if people posted under their real names. It is much easier to be a jerk or a troll if you remain anonymous. I participate in several forums where people are required to post under their real names. For whatever reason, the tone of those forums is more conducive to constructive discussion and debate.

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Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright

I think the civility would improve tremendously if people posted under their real names. It is much easier to be a jerk or a troll if you remain anonymous. I participate in several forums where people are required to post under their real names. For whatever reason, the tone of those forums is more conducive to constructive discussion and debate.

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I agree...I have noticed exactly the same thing.

Jeff, if that was a compliment of sorts, thanks.

I'm not really crazy. Sometimes I post just straight aviation stuff, and seriously , like the post under warbirds about the Reno report.
Sometimes I am writing with what I hope is humor, trying to bring a laugh into the world that needs it badly, especially this website which can be pretty flat and dry.
Sometimes I am using sarcasm to reply to someone, I am trying to make a point but adding some humor also or trying to. This was the case on the topic about cell phones and ipads on planes where the other side just seems so silly to me.

I guess I flatter myself as having some writing ability. Have you ever heard of TEXAS MONTHLY? It is a large successful magazine. In college I wrote a little in the paper and the man who was starting T M called me about writing for his new start up magazine. I foolishly was too busy playing to take it seriously, probably was a bit too young then.

As for using my real name, I agree that someone who hides behind an alias should be taken with a large dose of Epson Salt. I was naive about websites when I started and it never occurred to me not to use my name. If you write for a mag or a letter to the editor in a paper, you must use your name.

RV8505,Please let us know how your interface with the"powers that be" goes.

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Bill- you are a crazy, you post too much, you are wrong more often than not, and I love arguing with you. Frankly, people like you are what make this forum worth participating in. You too Steve

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Thank you Jeff. There are a lot of folks here whom I disagree with vehemently on many issues but their presence is what makes having discussions here worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright

I think the civility would improve tremendously if people posted under their real names.

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Sounds dangerous....there's no way I'd use my real name on the internet. :D

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Originally Posted by martymayes

Sounds dangerous....there's no way I'd use my real name on the internet. :D

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Personally, I prefer to use the same name everywhere I post. Thus, I don't use my real name. Additionally, due to the nature of my job, its already very easy to figure out who I am, if someone really wants to. Occasionally I'll post things about where I work and what I do, and I don't really need to have my name attached to all of it, so as not to be watched from "corporate above".

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Originally Posted by martymayes

Sounds dangerous....there's no way I'd use my real name on the internet. :D

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<----I hope no one clicks on my webpage link and discovers my true identity!!

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Additionally, due to the nature of my job, its already very easy to figure out who I am, if someone really wants to. Occasionally I'll post things about where I work and what I do, and I don't really need to have my name attached to all of it, so as not to be watched from "corporate above"

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Same here.

[QUOTE=RV8505;22138]

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Originally Posted by Jeff Point

Amen to that! Over moderation is going to be the death of VAF if they are not careful, and we don't need that to happen here. Over moderation has already spurred one start-up RV-centered unmoderated forum. I support this effort but it needn't have come to this.


I read it it is not much of anything I would want to participate in, The traiffc is real slow. As for Doug's web site, maybe it was better for the sake of the board to cut loose of that contrary 5% that creates 100% of the problems.

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If the other site had gone live first then it would have all the traffic. That's really the only difference. Many forums out there where disagreements and discussion are encouraged without draconian moderation tactics, double standards, or the owner throwing temper tantrums, that have many more members than VAF. Oh and I was never banned from VAF, just tired of the Orwellian nature there.

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Oh and I was never banned from VAF, just tired of the Orwellian nature there.

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That's one reason why I quit posting over there. I simply got tired of the "toe the party line or get out" attitude. This place is far from perfect but at least I've never been threatened with physical violence for simply expressing a differing opinion from the majority.

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Originally Posted by steveinindy

This place is far from perfect but at least I've never been threatened with physical violence for simply expressing a differing opinion from the majority.

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Get with the program or I will come down to Indy an kick your ass. There, got that one checked off.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Point

Get with the program or I will come down to Indy an kick your ass. There, got that one checked off.

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Do I at least get a RV-6 ride along with the ass kicking? LOL

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Originally Posted by steveinindy

Do I at least get a RV-6 ride along with the ass kicking? LOL

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You bet! Give me a couple of years and I'll throw in a Breezy ride too.

Come over and we'll play Dungeons & Dragons; my mom will make grilled cheese sandwiches.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Point

You bet! Give me a couple of years and I'll throw in a Breezy ride too.

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Sounds like a plan! LOL

This thread has now become a near perfect example of Kcessna's original point. And, once again, the discussion has distilled down to the third grade level and will disappear into the dust without any meaningful result. Therefore, many users will accept the result as inevitable and forget the reasons for its' start. Hopefully, this won't discourage them from participating in future discussions.