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Hi guys, I've noticed over many years of instructing that many people are totally nervous about flying to a towered airport because they are unsure of what to say or how to say it to I made a video to help people out who need to brush up on their tower skills. It's 30 minutes long, so make sure you have time to watch it before you start! I hope you enjoy it. Control tower operations video.
Just viewed your video. Excellent , very well done. Everyone who does not fly into towered airports frequently should take the time to view it. I really liked the explainations of airport signage, since it tends to be confusing. I now understand it better. Many thanks for creating and posting it.
Randy
Thank you for that!
Just viewed it. Very nice refresher. I like that you chose an airport with complicated layout (Dupage has several runways and taxiways) and in fairly complicated airspace. This background "noise" highlights your simple message that "you're just having a conversation with the tower." I've sent the URL to friends who I think will benefit from it, too. Thanks!
Terrific! Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:
David
Glad you all liked it!
Yep! It's JUST a conversation. Most people think it's much more than that but it really isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Boatright
Thanks for sharing. If you have any other ideas for a video you think someone may benefit from, send me a message!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Boatright
Great to hear!Quote:
Originally Posted by vaflier
Thanks for the thumbs up!Quote:
Originally Posted by David Pavlich
Good subject.
When replacing the spark plug wires on my VW powered experimental I had to go see a local man whom makes wires for the racing community. I told him I needed these wires for my airplane. He spoke right up and said he went out and purchased a nice low wing 4 seat airplane and started taking flight training and did indeed get his PPL.
He then said you want too buy a nice low wing on the cheap. He said he is done with ATC and flying. I told him to move his airplane to a non towered airport and train train train then move on to a towered airport. He said nope he was done.
I could tell you what happened to him twice, but lets just say him and the tower or ATC are not friends. This is a man with real deep pockets and he walked away from aviation without a second thought. This all happened within the last couple years.
Tony
New pilots should not make such a mountain out of just a hill when flying into a control zone or tower. It's not that big a deal. First, 25 miles away, tune in an listen to the ATIS. Get the name, ie Bravo, set the barometer into your altimeter, and get the winds and visualize them in relation to runways. Then tune in tower and Listen before you talk, so as to get an idea of what route most people are given. These radio frequencies are right there on your sectional, both next to the airport name and in the index. You do have a sectional, don't you, or if not you are likely and ipad genius and don't need any advice anyway. So get down to pattern alt and reasonable speed and call tower either about 15 miles out or over a known approach point, so know where you are.
If it is class B( TCA) airspace, there may be an approach control frequency to call before tower,and they may give you a transponder code.
So, " Metro tower, Bonanza 3100 Fox 15 west with Bravo." They will come back with something like "3100 Fox report Sloans Lake" or "report a 2 mile left base for rwy 29." Say "3100 Fox" and fly as told, then they will clear you to land usually. No big deal. MAKE A NORMAL LANDING WITH GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED. And when leaving the runway call ground which is usually 121.9. 121,8, or 121.7.
One small point re the video at the start of this topic, the CFI must fly jets a lot because he keeps talking about "tail numbers". I am sure he means N numbers as most U S light piston airplanes don't have the N number on the tail, they have it on the side. I never heard the phrase Tail number until a few years ago.
Tower controllers are like dogs, there are some Golden Retrievers and there are a few that are like a Chiwawas and barking at everyone near them.
When you were a teenager, you might meet a girl's Parents who were friendly and you might meet some who regarded you like an opponent. Either way , you didn't give up on girls, did you?
Bill this has to do with COMMUNICATION or lack of between this man and ATC. This is his home field he is having problems with. I am sure by now the plane is sold and he is gone. He was moving out of state to AZ I believe. But flying was over for him.
Here is what he told me.
The Tower at our field is a training tower. I have had enough dealing with students whom tell you one thing then mean another. I have only solo'ed my airplane 3 times and each time I have been called to the tower for landing on the wrong runway. I write down what ATC tells me then read it back, then after I land I get called into the tower, I am done.
I told him to move his airplane to a small county airfield close by outside class C airspace and get some practice in. Its a non towered field and he could work on his radio skills and communication outside the class C airspace.
He said the plane is for sale he was done flying for ever. I got my wires and left.
Tony
One small point re the video at the start of this topic, the CFI must fly jets a lot because he keeps talking about "tail numbers". I am sure he means N numbers as most light piston airplanes don't have a number on the tail, they have an N number on the side. I never heard the phrase Tail number until a few years ago.
Must fly jets????? Well, he may fly jets but the inference to "tail numbers" comes from the fact that ALL registration numbers from the 1920's until the early 1950's were located on the rudder and sometimes on the wings of all civilian airplanes. Must be an old guy thing.......at least it is for me. :)
First of all, it is hard to believe that anyone who really cares about flying would quit flying and sell their plane just because of some nasty dispute with the controllers. I think something else was at work here, likely he ran short of money since many people don't fly for that reason or maybe he didn't have confidence in his flying or his plane, especially if it was something he built. Hard to believe he may have landed on the wrong runway more than once, unless he has a language or hearing problem. What airport is that?
Now, if one does have a problem with the tower, here is what I would do. First of all, I would sit down after the flight and analyze truthfully what went wrong. If the problem is with you as a pilot, then change what you do/say next time, and if you are not sure, ask a local instructor or experienced pilot for advice. If the problem is with the controller there are really two approaches. Next, if you trust the tower controller is trying to do the right thing, then when you have some time and the tower is not too busy, you could phone the them, not on the radio, and to discuss what happened and come to an understanding as to how to resolve it for next time. One caution, the tower is going to be covering their butts, first and foremost. One thing you will virtually never hear the tower controller especially the supervisor say is that they were wrong and made a mistake. They have an O J complex and it is always going to be portrayed as the pilots fault. However, if you word it very carefully, maybe you can approach it on the basis of how can the communication be more clear for next time? ,and less about who was at fault this time. Do know that both the radio transmissions and your phone call are recorded and can be used against you. Now if you are pretty sure that you are in the right and the tower used the wrong call sign or gave you the wrong runway or some such, you can ask to have a copy of these recordings. They are required to give them to you, and if they are in the right, they won't object. You can tell pretty redily if they are in the wrong as they will not be eager to give you the recording and may suggest instead just talking to you. DON'T LET THEM DESTROY THE TAPE IF IT IS A MAJOR OFFENSE, AND MIGHT BECOME A LEGAL MATTER.
Years ago I took off in my T-34 and found that a wing tank fuel cap was leaking. No big deal, not a fire or even a fire hazzard so I told the tower I was returning for landing. The controller got very excited,and asked if I had an emergency. I very clearly said no, not emergency, just returning to land. The controller can and did declare an emergency anyway and I landed to find fire truck, etc. coming out. In discussion the tower seemed to hold a grudge that I had not gone along with their call of an emergency and there were some implied threats until I asked for the tower tapes. They were not happy, but gave me the tapes and then backed off. They did code the tapes in such a way so that they would not play on a regular cassete, but I did have them for my lawyer if it got to that point. I have had a sometimes adversarial dealing with our tower every since as they do seem to hold a grudge and definitely don't like anyone who sees something other than their view.
Bill, good advice overall but the above statement tagged you as being a crusty ol' pilot out of touch with present reality. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood
It is very common nowadays to have a full set of sectionals, IFR charts, terminal area charts, facility directory, and a full set of approach plates on a single iPad. Just because a pilot decides to equip himself with every available chart instead of a single piece of paper doesn't mean they are a "ipad genius and don't need any advice anyway". Or maybe you meant that as a compliment!
The important point is to know how to use a sectional regardless of whether it is made of trees or pixels. :)
Bill I agree with every word you wrote. I even tried to explain a little of what you said in my own words but failed. This man purchased a real nice low wing GA airplane. He told me what it was I just kinda blew it off and forgot. I believe he spent close to 65K on it and was selling it for 41K. He said he was tired of paying hangar rent.
This man has DEEP pockets. Money was not an issue. He sells Boss Hog 502 Motorcycles and owns a few of them him self. He also owns this Spark plug wire company. You go into any hotrod shop around these parts and his wires are on the shelf. I just can not remember his name.
He did not have his PP yet, now that I remember this, he solo'ed and was signed off to solo his airplane. Every time he flew or these three times he was called from the tower about landing on the wrong runway, and he did say it happened 3 times. The last three times he flew.
I just wanted to mention this if anyone else is going through anything like this get some help. This man was done, he had not even went out to see his airplane in months when I saw him. He said he would never go back but to sell it to someone else.
I kept telling him, move your airplane outside class c and do your training, then after you are comfortable flying move into class c. It was just to late, he walked. He told me he was going to AZ. That bummed me for I have never seen spark plug wires anything like he makes and in any color and up to a huge, I mean huge size.
Tony
P.S. Its hard to find solid core wires.
I can not be the only one he told this story to. He knows a lot of people so just maybe someone else on this forum or on this board has heard this. We have a few members here from the Central IL. area.
I met the Head controller, sorry if this is not his title, at a safety seminar, and he seemed to me very open and welcoming. I believe if I had a problem like this I would go to him for help but not to bitch. But I have never delt with ATC. But I would have looked for help not gave up. but then again I have never been called into a tower or by the tower.
Tony
Sam, believe it or not there are some of us old guys who don't own an I pad and can make it through a whole day without massaging my ear with a cell phone.
And if I had an I pad, the only thing likely to be on it would be dust since I don't know how to operate one. In my defense, I have never had the batteries run down in my sectional or wac chart and I have flown all over the U S, and parts of Canada, Bahamas with real paper maps over 34 years and about dozen airplanes.
Now, I know you are the tech guy and if there wasn't some new tech you might not have a job. But I am a bit old fashioned for some good reasons. Who ever made a better wing than R J Mitchell back in 1936, who ever made a better engine than Mr. Rolls and Mr.Royce? Whoever made a better movie star the Grace Kelley or Liz Taylor? A lot of new stuff is big on hat size and low on cattle as they say in Texas.
Maybe this year at Oshkosh you can teach me how to use an I pad, just before they come out with something to make them obsolete.
Bill I am like you. I do not own an Ipad. I have given more then a few of them away as gifts as I have the smart phones but I do not own either. I did see a video of a man using a smart phone as a gps and other things or just like a mini i-pad. I thought that was kinda cool for my cockpit is to small for an I-pad or tablet. I told the wife, maybe its time for me to get a smart phone. I doubt I do though, if I do it will be used as a tablet in my airplane and not as a phone.
I just do not like talking on the phone..and no I do not text, or what ever they call it.
Tony
Bill/Sam, what's an "I pad"? Ain't that one of those things pirates wear? I think that would mess up your depth perception- that's critical when landing! Just kidding guys, I'm with you though Bill. I too started flying in the last century; sometime around when electronic slide rules came out (that's a "calculator" to all you kids). I too have yet to encounter a dead chart battery. Although, I did borrow one of those GPS gadgets when I brought my latest plane home. I found the "moving map" and airspace display extremely useful. It did help with comm between approach etc. since I knew exactly where I was and where I was supposed to go. Despite the congested, fast traffic I encountered in the Pensacola area I found comm with ATC very easy with the tech help. So, despite being a minimalist I do like the tech stuff too. But with regard to ATC communication, stick to the basics and just talk. They'll just talk back. It isn't anything more than that. I was taught and remember the old "who you are, where you are, what do you want to do" format. Works every time!
I don't need an I-Pad, I don't need Foreflight, I don't even need Google...................My wife knows everything!
My problem is she doesn't like flying in single engine airplanes so I can't defer to her. So I'm back to needing the above things.
Bill, you have me confused with someone else, I'm not "the tech guy" (not sure who that is...I'm a retired photographer who now teaches high school Chemistry...). I have absolutely no problems with someone using a sectional, I've got one in my RV-6 but <gasp> I don't own an iPad. I too learned to fly in the previous century (my students insist it was the previous millennium...), even got my instrument rating with paper approach plates, but we did have a leading edge.....Loran! (I've been flying nearly as long as you have.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood
But.....there is no reason to denigrate pilots who do use technology....even if you don't personally understand it. :)
When a good pilot decides to use tech, his stick and rudder skills don't automatically disappear, and he doesn't forget how to use a radio. The pros have figured out that tablets are now the way it is done because many carriers no longer use paper products. And don't be surprised when paper charts disappear from the market in a few years....possibly even sooner than many of us expect.
By the way, I don't even use a sectional in my Legal Eagle...don't even have much in the way of instruments! I hold my thumb and forefinger about 1/2" apart and when the cows are that big I'm at cruising altitude. So I can out old-tech you. :) But the RV-6 has some really neat toys in it that add great functionality to the plane....and this old pilot.
Sam, first of all my post was aimed at the guy who is nervous about flying into a tower airport, so probably a beginner, and who should have a chart, not the high tech average R V owner, who may need every vfr and ifr chart all over the country. Or maybe he doesn't really need all those, any more than every housewife needs a granite countertop, but he sure wants them, especially if the guy in the next hangar has them.
Next my line about ipad genius was meant to have some humor in it. BUT you apparently took it very seriously. Have you met Ron, you guys both have something in common, the ability to pick out one line of a topic that I write and focus your attention on that rather than the overall point of what I was writing.
You write "I'm not the tech guy". Now how did I get that mistaken idea? Well down at the bottom of your post, right under your name it says, "EAA technical counselor", so I took you at your word. I also looked at the photos of your RV, beautiful but with a cockpit that only a space alien could likely fly , no gages at all. One good thing is it keeps old guys like me from asking if I can fly your plane.
Why don't you start a topic, ie Charts or iPads ? and let's discuss the pros and cons.
P S, I can tell you probably are an old guy since you, like me put your real name on your post and don't hide behind an alias.
Fair enough, Bill, sorry I misunderstood your intent. And I didn't take anything personally, just responding so others who also might have misunderstood your post would have something to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood
We have to keep in mind that whenever we post anything in a forum....we are fair game. Forums are sometimes a full-contact sport. ;)
Best wishes for a safe and enjoyable 2014!
In regards to talking to ATC, as has been said, who are you, where are you, what do you want, it is that simple. If ATC is too fast for you or you need clearer instruction and they don't seem to be slowing down for you, just say "student pilot" regardless whether you are or not. That phrase is clear and they will slow down, be clear, and not expect you to be precise or even correct with everything, it gives you time. As to electronics I use this desk-top PC, but do have a short story about the airplane. The return trip from the Blakesburg fly-in two years ago my passengers I-pad went black, then the I-phone, both with fore flight. My battery died in the portable intercom. Since I am writing this we did survive, the Bendix compass pointed the way, the paper charts kept working,the E-6B kept computing,and the Eisman magnetos kept sparking. My Champ nor the air over the north woods of Wisconsin and Michigan did not know that it was not 1946 and we got home without a problem. Are the electronics nice? definitely, necessary? no. Have a great 2014 every one and remember fly the plane, first last and always!