Pay FAA or cancel Airventure?

I am not cancelling my membership... yet. I believe Mr Pelton picked the worse possible decision by caving in to the FAA. But, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. There may be other factors, like maybe the EAA can't survive as an organization without a week long fund raiser carnival.

The EAA will either file suit and go after the FAA for a full refund and vigorously pursue remedies both in Congress and the courts, or I simply can not be a member of an organization that sold out my way of life in return for a buck. Yeah, time was against Jack. He caved when he shouldn't have. It's going to be incredibly expensive and difficult to uncross that line. If the EAA is willing to pursue it, I'll wave the flag and back it up with my checkbook. If they simply caved, I can't be a part of it. OK EAA HQ. The clock is ticking and the membership is watching....

CubBuilder

Guys,

I think Mayhem has it right, checkout the AirVenture blog on this subject and read D. Knapinski's blog on page 10. As for EAA and AirVenture, if you are one of those who want to cancel and not pay then consider the impact on revenues and what gets funded. You need to understand what will have to be cut in EAA's budget this year. A cancellation at this late date would hurt a lot of sponsors and all the businesses that get a major piece of their annual sales at the convention. The timing on this is what is so bad, if we cancel at this late date it will have a negative impact for years, even if we "win" this fight. As I noted in one of my previous posts,
EAA is only one small voice in a much bigger debate over "who pays and who benefits". As for "privatizing" the FAA, that just reduces your voice in the long run, and will open the door for all kinds of "fees" just like our current banking system.

Joe
:eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe LaMantia

Guys,

I think Mayhem has it right, checkout the AirVenture blog on this subject and read D. Knapinski's blog on page 10. As for EAA and AirVenture, if you are one of those who want to cancel and not pay then consider the impact on revenues and what gets funded. You need to understand what will have to be cut in EAA's budget this year. A cancellation at this late date would hurt a lot of sponsors and all the businesses that get a major piece of their annual sales at the convention. The timing on this is what is so bad, if we cancel at this late date it will have a negative impact for years, even if we "win" this fight. As I noted in one of my previous posts,
EAA is only one small voice in a much bigger debate over "who pays and who benefits". As for "privatizing" the FAA, that just reduces your voice in the long run, and will open the door for all kinds of "fees" just like our current banking system.

Joe
:eek:

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I have an ancestor who signed both the Declaration and the Costitution. He died in debtors prison and I believe he had his priorities straight.

We've got the Feds tracking, stopping and searching our aircraft without warrant. We're the only form of travel that has to get permission to leave the country. We've got the FAA making us an offer we can't refuse. It has to stop somewhere! There needs to be a line in the sand where we say this far and no farther.

Unlike some of the folks who say they're quitting EAA, I didn't, when the guy at Membership asked, ask for a refund on the remainder of this years dues. I'll see how this plays out, but auto-renew is off and EAA will have earn my dues every year. Right now it ain't looking good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe LaMantia

Guys,

The timing on this is what is so bad, if we cancel at this late date it will have a negative impact for years, even if we "win" this fight. As I noted in one of my previous posts,


Joe
:eek:

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The timing? Negative impact for years? This is just the first payment. Do you honestly think next year's bill will be smaller? And each successive year? With all due respect to a fellow concerned aviator, I feel that comment is like saying "it's okay, it's just a little cancer". The bureacracy has run amok, and we've been handed the bill. If someone, if WE don't put an end to this tumor quickly, it will put and end to us. Especially when it metastisizes to across the board user fees. I don't say these things lightly, and I have a long history of attending via car and plane as well as volunteering at the local level, and even a few years in grounds prep prior to the convention. I am a homebuilder, grass roots guy, and I detect a serious grub infestation. Pretending and looking the other way won't help. I truly feel this needs to be stamped out NOW.

"EAA" is not picking up the tab for this, we the members are. We will probably see an increase in membership cost and I'll bet they will be asking for donations at the show this year. Of course the cities around the area should contribute, since the show brings millions for the business in the area. I think it would be a disaster to cancel the show, so I understand paying the ransom. I will certainly donate if asked. I hope this doesn't cost us in lost memberships.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cub builder

You might note that the FAA Mission statement below does not mention promotion of aviation in any way, shape or form. Expecting that from the FAA is wishful thinking, but certainly not their mission.

-CubBuilder
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Hi There, Cub builder- To use your turn of phrase, you might note I did not say anything about their current mission statement, I quoted their charter, the document that created the FAA and defined it's mission. Let me quote the first sentence: "CHAP. 344.-An Act To encourage and regulate the use of aircraft in commerce, and for other purposes." This is from the Air Commerce Act of 1926, and can be found on line. So, it certainly is their mission, and it's about time someone reminded them of that. If many folks feel as you seem to, that it's wishfull thinking that the folks that work for us do what we stipulate, then the war is already lost.

Gmate,

The EAA is not big enough to "Stamp Out" much of anything, we don't have the clout of the NRA. In the world of Washington this "outrage" is the mouse that squeaked! While we were able to get 28 Senators to listen it takes a "super majority" to do anything in the Senate. It is very early in this whole "sequester" fight and AirVenture is only about 30 seconds into round one. Go get a cold drink, and check out the 19 pages of comments on the AirVenture blog and you'll get some insight into what has happened and what may be coming. We were faced with only 2 choices, pay or cancel AirVenture, both really bad choices. I hate the under handed methods being used to make a political point, but at least we will remain financially in the game by keeping the convention over having to cut EAA's budget. How much revenue do we take in from AirVenture and what does it cost to run EAA for a year? How much do we spend to get our point across in D.C.? Do you think we're going to "Win" a war there with less money?

Joe
:confused:

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Originally Posted by Joe LaMantia

check out the 19 pages of comments on the AirVenture blog

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Do you have a link to this blog? I have been unable to find it from the EAA website.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe LaMantia

Gmate,

The EAA is not big enough to "Stamp Out" much of anything, we don't have the clout of the NRA. In the world of Washington this "outrage" is the mouse that squeaked! While we were able to get 28 Senators to listen it takes a "super majority" to do anything in the Senate. It is very early in the whole "sequester" fight and AirVenture is only about 30 seconds into round one. Go get a cold drink, and check out the 19 pages of comments on the AirVenture blog and you'll get some insight into what has happened and what may be coming. We were faced with only 2 choices, pay or cancel AirVenture, both really bad choices. I hate the under handed methods being used to make a political point, but at least we will remain financially in the game by keeping the convention over having to cut EAA's budget. How much revenue do we take in from AirVenture and what does it cost to run EAA for a year? How much do we spend to get our point across in D.C.? Do you think we're going to "Win" a war there with less money?

Joe
:confused:

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Joe, you underestimate your own power. Many regs been affected by EAA, and EAA people are moving into FAA management positions due to their acknowledged expertise and talent. We may be 30 seconds into round one, but our openning shot was to bend over, drop trou, and wimper "I resent this..." That makes for a short fight. As to your other points: What does it cost to run EAA for a year? Well, what would it cost to run for a year without the convention? Further, what will it cost to run for a year when we get a bill every time the FAA answers their phone? You ask how much do we spend to get our point across? Zero, if the state of Wisconsin and the rest of the domestic and international aviation industry does the shouting when we cancel. Do I think we'll win with less money? You mean, like 500k less??

There comes a time to stand up and be heard. EAA didn't gain it's stature from rolling over, but from doing the right thing. Not every challenge or threat requires nuclear response, but I personally feel this event does.

My feeling is we have lost this battle but we are still in the war. If we "win" this battle by canceling AirVenture we may very well lose the war because of a loss of corporate support from both in- and out-side of the aviation industry. Y'all can complain about the commercial support but we need it whether it is trucks to move stuff (Ford) or discounted lawnmowers (JD) an operation like EAA or AirVenture can't operate solely on your dues.

Sport Aviation can live to fight another day we shouldn't fall on our sword just because we were blindsided. Did we give up after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!?!?!!! (Please forgive the Animal House reference!)

Good bye quitters, enjoy chess or shuffleboard in the park. I'll be at the airport and supporting those that are battling to keep general aviation affordable and accessible in the most aviation friendly country I know of!

Jim