Frank, The thingy with the clecos. It probably has a more official name, but I don't know what it is.;)
Attachment 7031
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Frank, The thingy with the clecos. It probably has a more official name, but I don't know what it is.;)
Attachment 7031
I think it's "gap seal." :)
I did something similar at first, but then found it wasn't necessary, and would have been a huge PITA to cover. Then again, you can remove the ailerons.
I'm still very concerned you haven't given enough room for the fabric and it's going to rub.
Frank, it is close, but there is sufficient room for a clean covering job. I will wrap the aileron around the leading edge, so that will keep the covering count low there, and be careful about build up on the wing side.
Thanks for keeping watch on me.
Dale
Well, your plane is a cousin to mine, so we're related by aircraft.
I'm really, really looking forward to seeing it when it's finished. Heck, I want to park mine next to yours and walk from plane to plane saying "oh, that's better!" and "Yep, he did the same thing."
We're just about one full tank of gas and a great story away from each other.
Yes, we'll bring them together one day. Hopefully in the not to distant future.
Another hurdle cleared. Today, Rose helped me complete the aileron cutout fairings - top and bottom.
Top
Attachment 7054 Attachment 7055
Bottom
Attachment 7056 Attachment 7057
Sometimes, it just takes the right size hammer.
Attachment 7058
Dale
Wonderful craftsmanship with a great eye for detail!
Rose and I had some time to work on this project yesterday. We mated the two top wings together for the first time with ribs. (still need false ribs on the left wing). The purpose for this was to match the root ribs wing to wing. We got the forward end of the left root rib positioned and a spacer between the upper and lower rib attached.
Attachment 7070 Attachment 7073
The left wing is back on the table for framing out the cockpit cut out, shrouds around the wishbone and final bracing of the root rib.
Attachment 7071 Attachment 7072
Rose and I moved the wing to the lean to (after moving my boat that has been neglected for the last couple of years). The purpose was to be able to match the left wing root area items with the right. Last week, all was going well until it was discovered the left upper pilot cutout bow interfered with the aileron control wishbone at full deflection. We measured and measured and found nothing different from the right side more that 1/4 - 3/8" different. However, due to the hard arc, it hits. After letting it sit a few days we went at getting the parts to fit. Job complete. We had to shift the bow a little and associated parts, but it isn't obvious. We made a lot of progress.
Attachment 7114
Attachment 7115
Attachment 7116
We now have to flip it to work on the bottom side.
Work in the last couple days produced two complete upper wings (except for covering)
Attachment 7133
Attachment 7134
Attachment 7135
Attachment 7136
Attachment 7137
Attachment 7138
Now, how do I get these monsters up on the struts???:rollseyes:
Wings on temporarily. However, I have decided the wing incidence needs to be reduced. The plan dimensions end up with 4 degrees at spar centerlines. That seems way too much. After discussing with Robert Basley, I plan to reduce the incidence measurement down to about 1 degree. Unfortunately, that requires. replacing some of the vertical fuselage members. However, better to fix now tha after it is giving problems flying.
Attachment 7186 Attachment 7187
Attachment 7188
Dale
Yesterday we bit the bullet and started the modifications to lower the wing incidence. The process was to lower the fuselage tail to bring the jigged angle from 4 degrees to 1.2 degrees that Robert says he uses on the new versions. The first shot shows how much we lowered the tail support.
Attachment 7197
Redrilling the forward vertical fuselage member for the carry through attachment.
Attachment 7198
New fuselage angle. The wing spars are horizontal.
Attachment 7199
Dale
Now that's ingenuity.
Instead of tilting the wings, you tilted the fuselage. Neat.
Work and family have kept me away from this build, but it has not gone untouched.
The vertical fuselage members that I removed have either been replaced or modified for the new lower wing position. The forward cabanes have been shortened and the angle at the top adjusted for the new incidence.
What remains refitting the wings is to drill the final holes in one of the vertical members that are now unable to be drilled by normal methods. I have had to make a drill guide for a smaller bit, then I can remove the members and open the holes to the required size. That will hopefully happen in the next few days.
In the mean time, Rose and I brought the left lower wing back to the house to replace the lead/lag cables. They just did not suit me with their tension. All better now. While it was at home, we made cable separators and installed them on all internal cables in the wings.
Attachment 7367
As is my normal practice, I changed the location of the inner attachment of the rear landing wires. The plan has them attaching to the rear of the rear cabane connecting plates. This puts the eyebolts just above and ahead of the pilot's forehead. I wasn't keen on that idea. The originals came from under the rear spar, so I did the best I could to locate them in that approx. location - the upper outer side of the rear cabanes. To take the stress from pulling the cabanes apart, I fabricated a tie strap between the cabanes. We had to be careful the cables were low enough to clear the aileron wishbones at full throw. They do.
Attachment 7368
Attachment 7369
Attachment 7370
Once I get the final attachments completed for the carry through tubes, we will square up the wings, shim where required and make final attachments.
Then the outer V struts!
One of my recent distractions:
Attachment 7373
My wife's Christmas present to me was a 1 hour Introduction to Float Plane lesson in Seattle, WA. We went there in June to visit my son and his wife to be, so I cashed in my lesson. Wow, that was great. I did 6 water takeoff/ landings including one glassy water landing. step taxiing, including turns and general float plane operations.
Getting my float plane certificate is on my bucket list. I really have no use for it, but it will just be great to work toward it.
No, I will not put floats on the Nieuport.:rollseyes:
Dale
The landing wire mounts are pretty sweet.
It's probably a bit of over-building, but one I fully understand and appreciate.
Now I am going to preach to you rigging, since you're nearing that stage. It's great the leading edges aren't on now; that will help a lot.
Rigging is EVERYTHING. As you know, I spent about two months (off and on) and rolls of wire on it before I got it right; it has made all the difference, I believe.
For all the quirks of my aircraft, she's rock solid in the air; the ability to fly hands free at cruise (in smooth air), easily coordinate turns, and straight-forward-no-surprises stall characteristics are all up to having the rigging as close to perfect as I can get it. Lord knows it's not my superior piloting abilities.
One the cabanes are where you want them and locked in, mount those wings, put her in flying posture,* get out the levels, and start the process. I used little spirit levels and two sided tape on two spots on the spars, and one on the compression tubes.
The goal is to get all the wires about the same tightness with the same cranking of the turnbuckles. Robert likes two threads showing on either end. I have mine to where the threads just disappear into the barrels. It doesn't matter, but if they're all in the same position things get a lot easier down the line if one has to take the wings off and put them back on!
Also, I learned that rigging the landing wires first, to where the upper wing is pulled up level (and the washout in the lower wings is established), and then bringing the flying wires tight to them saved a lot of time and got me the results I wanted. Chasing down one wire only to find it changed another is a real bummer. Don't be afraid to just throw your hands up, cut them, and start over. Most of my time wasted was doing just that....trying to make a bad set of wires work.
Oh, and those center wires over the fuselage (if you have any left) are dead last to be done. Those rascals can throw a wrench in the whole process if they're done first.
The key here is consistency. If the left wing spars have the bubbles just touching on the inside (towards the fuselage) line, that's actually fine, as long as the ones on the right are the same, with the bubble touching the inside (towards the fuselage) line as well. Symmetry is King. Don't chase perfection too far; as long as the wings are all in agreement with each other she'll fly true.
* Here's a funny thing - if you prop the tail up to where one is a bit nose low and rig level to it, guess how the plane will tend to fly? I picked a spot at the side of the fuselage right at the cockpit as my datum for level. ON ONE SIDE. Pick datum points and keep them. One on the side for long level and one spot (I used the center of the upper engine mount horizontal rail) for sideways level.
Thanks for the heads up on the rigging, Frank. I agree entirely.
As for the leading edges, the wing structures are completed. I will not be adding the aluminum sheet per the kit. That is why there are the false ribs.
The key to my next project is getting the wings all squared up so that I can fabricate the V struts as once they are attached, the relationship of the upper and lower wings is fixed. Then set the cables.
Dale
Yep.
The trick here is to get everything close - fuselage in the right position, top wing leveled, and bottom wing with that 2.5 degree up slope, and measure the rear vertical using a plumb bob on one side.
Cut, cope, and place it. Bear in mind Robert is very "gooder enough" on this, and it may not be perfectly vertical, though you've paid close enough attention to where it might be. Plus you've got those wickedly clever clampy mount thingies that go around the compression strut, so there's some wiggle room.
This is your datum piece.
Get a piece of 1x2 that is longer than you'll need. Round one end of it. Bolt it to the bottom of the strut mount (or, if you're skilled, clamp it), rotate it to where it hits the mark at the front of the compression strut (or, rather, fits into your clampy thing), mark, cut it, and check for fit. This is the template for the crushed tube or wood for the forward strut. Marking the angle is easy - just run a sharpie across the top of the strut mount across the wood. You can use this for the coping angle on the actual piece on both ends!
Make a jig to make the strut assembly. Execute the build. Check for fit.
Now, without measuring the other side on the aircraft, duplicate it. You want them to be identical, and if you monkey with measuring the other side or make them independent of one another they won't be.
It was really hard for me to do this! I wanted to double and triple check everything at this point.
If they don't both line up, check your wing supports. I was about to wish I had hair to pull out when they didn't in my build, only to figure out that the reason they weren't playing nice was my rope hanging system was great for the upper wing, but my plastic lawn chair back prop for the lower one on the other side wasn't - it was actually pulling the wing forward from being fully seated.
Yes, I was lucky in that the lower wing that wasn't fully seated was on the side I didn't measure (but was good on the side I did).
Now with both in place, bolted at the bottom and clamped at the top, check the rear strut and do a little dance when a tiny nudge on the second one makes it perfectly vertical and hitting the compression strut at the same point as on the other wing.
Sweet, sweet, sweet! Most fun flying you'll ever do. Hmmmm...floats, even amphibs on the Nieuport. Jennies had a mono float and outriggers under the bottom wing. If you go to Osh, check out the Micro Mong at the seaplane base.Quote:
Originally Posted by bookmaker
Yes, Floats it was a blast. Interesting having to add pump the water out of the floats on the walk around.
Glad you loved it. If you consider floats for the Nieuport(I see your eyes rolling) then choose composites like Clamar specifically for non-certifieds. No rivets, no leaks, no pump outs.Quote:
Originally Posted by bookmaker
Rose and I had a little time weekend before last to work on the Nieuport. I wanted to replace the drag/antidrag wires in the left lower wing as I was not satisfied with the tension. DONE. While I had it in the shop, I made and installed the leather cable separator. While I was at it, I made and installed them on all internal wing cable crossings.
Leather Separator:
Attachment 7384
The next project was to reinstall all the vertical fuselage members that I had removed to change the lower wing incidence. It turned out that I only had to remake one on each side. The remainder had the new holes far enough from the original, or in the same location, to reuse them. The only problem is the vertical member behind the front carry through tube could not be match drilled with the required 5/16" bit while in place. Lowering the carry through put it too close to the longeron the get a drill and bit in place. So, I determined I could use a 12" long 1/8" bit that is somewhat flexible to drill a pilot hole by letting the bit lay along side the longeron. The problem was there were already 5/16" holes in the front tube and carry through. I decided I could make a centering guide. I ordered a length of 5/16" OD 4130 tubing with just under 1/8"ID. I cut a piece to the length I needed and drilled it to 1/8".
Guide and bit:
Attachment 7385
Guide and bit in place. The goal is to drill the vertical member to the right of the carry through tube:
Attachment 7386
Drill position: (bad photo, sorry)
Attachment 7387
It worked great. I then removed the piece just drilled (held in with clecos) and opened the holes to 5/16". The pieces were all reinstalled and riveted in place and all that was required was a slight reaming to get the holes lined up for the bolts.
All back in place:
Attachment 7388
My other project was to fit the attachments for the rear landing cables to the rear cabane structure. As is usual, I varied from the plans to suit my tastes and mounted them to the upper outside of the struts. Since I did not want that kind of potential load puling out on the struts, I made a connector piece for the inside that connects the two sides transferring the load from side to side.
Rear landing cable attached:
Attachment 7389
Connector:
Attachment 7390
The front cabanes were also shortened and the top end angle modified. All cabanes and carry through tubes are now back in place.
The next step is to align the wings then insert shims, etc to fix them in that location.
Dale
Rose and I spent yesterday afternoon working on the Nieupy. We spent quite some time drawing reference lines on the rough floor of the hangar then lined up the upper wing. When we were satisfied with that we drilled the holes through the forward cabanes for the mounting bolts top and bottom. Since we lowered the wing leading edge, the cross cables are too long so we got measurements to make new ones.
Finally we moved to the lower wings, aligned them and inserted the spacer washers on the front carry through bolts.
Doesn't sound like much, but several hours work in really hot and humid conditions.
Hopefully a little more work on it (and photos) today.
Yesterday, Rose and I went to the hangar and squared the wings and reattached the cabane cross cables, rear carry through bolts and drilled the lower wing rear spars at the connector to insert D pins to hole the wings in place.
Tonight we worked on the rudder to get it ready to cover. I need something covered to kick up the motivation level.
I added trim over the control horns for fabric attachment.
Attachment 7401
I added a 3/8" tube from the top bow to the lower rib to prevent the top from bowing in when covered.
Attachment 7402
Rubber grommet where the tube penetrates the rib
Attachment 7403
Rib drilled for fabric rivets.
Attachment 7404
Ready for anti chafe tape.
Attachment 7405
Dale
Rubber grommet? That's pretty sexy. Mine doesn't have that vertical tube, though - I guess because it's small than yours. Or did you add that?
Covering the tail first is a good plan. Every single covering task, especially covering around tight curves and tapes, is on that tail. Heck, figuring out that one must evenly iron both sides and getting a feel for it is invaluable.
I added it Frank. I knew if I didn't put something there, the top bow would pull down when shrinking the fabric.
It wouldn't. :)
On covering the Nieuport - going for "final shrink" is usually a bad idea...or, rather, should be taken with extreme caution.
For the tail feathers, go to the second heat temp and stop. It'll still be tight as can be, and the odds of having them warp is small.
Some movement on the Nieupy since the last posting. As usual, life has been getting in the way.
Rose and I modified my previously made pattern for the interplane V strut. I plan to make the final ones out of spruce rather than the aluminum tubes supplies in the kit. Two newer sets of pattern boards were made from this. Unfortunately, they will need to be modified due to the change in the next paragraph.
Attachment 7423
It was decided to modify the upper wing support to eliminate the washout that was built in based on initial comments from Robert Baslee. He subsequently indicated this is not necessary and he does not use it. I decided to eliminate it also (it was not built into the wing structure, just twisted on the supports) The modification to the support required cutting a notch to clear the metal fairing at the wing/aileron intersection. I can just be seen in this photo.
Attachment 7424
Next was to drill the holes and install the remaining 6 bolts at the upper wing center intersection front and rear. Drilling through the internal stainless steel connector tubes used up several bits.
Attachment 7425 Attachment 7426
Then we mounted the flying wires, set the lengths and swaged a turnbuckle on the lower ends. The upper ends have factory forks installed on the cables. Man, squeezing 16 times on the 3/16” cable swags was a real workout. (The landing wire cables were just sent to Aircraft Spruce for factory forks on one end of each of them)
Attachment 7427 Attachment 7428
Finally, the other evening, I taped up the rudder frame for covering. I hope to get it covered by this weekend.
Dale
I take it you got one of the mythical instruction books that Robert said come with kits?
On my plans it was hand written that there is zero washout on the top wing and 2.5 degrees on the bottom wing, accomplished by rigging.
Now, then, maybe Robert with 30+ years of building material can measure out a 2.5 degree washout on a upslope wing via rigging with any sort of accuracy, but that was beyond me, and I just ignored it. I just rigged it all as true and symmetrically as I could.
Power off stall - she mushes, then stalls straight forward. Power on stall - gentle break to the right, nothing spectacular. As long as the rigging is correct and the same for both sides, just about everything else is gravy. Certainly one would be shocked if they ran a laser down the top of the ribs on my wings...relatively consistent is a fair term; perfect would not.
The lower wing has 2.5 degrees of dihedral in a wing, not washout. I think you mixed up the terms. The top wing is flat end to end.
By the way, I just shook one of the containers of fabric adhesive. It is plenty liquid so should be OK. I'll cut out fabric for the rudder tomorrow after work.
Yep, I meant washout....setting the dihedral was a cinch.
I really don't have washout on the lower wing, though the handwritten addition said to put it in there - no washout on the upper wing.
I'll have to scan that page.
The first attempt attempting to cover the rudder didn't go well. I think the adhesive I have is too old and gone bad. We were able to clean off the adhesive by rubbing it like rubber cement. I ordered new adhesive so will try again.
Rose and I reworked the V strut patterns and got both mounted temporarily.
Attachment 7431
Just had to try out the "pilot's" seat.:D
Attachment 7432
The zebra stripes on the knees are from a kneeling pad that has alternating yellow and black. Apparently the black is deteriorating. The sweat is all mine.
Now that the temporary V struts are in place we can fit the landing wires. They should be here Thursday with factory forks on one end.
Dale
That's the nice thing about practicing on the rudder - it's easy to strip, clean and try again on. :)
I did break down and buy actual Stewart's fabric glue, mostly because the 3M stuff Robert provided was pretty gummy by the time I cracked it open.
Your seat elevation is spot on, but I suspect you'll wind up making the same mod to the push rod I did to keep it that low.
I received the fresh 3M Fastbond today. Hopefully I can try it in the next few days. I hope to do it in an air conditioned area so it's not so darn hot and humid. May make a difference.
What, you don't like painting a six inch long strip of glue to see that when the brush reaches the end, the front is dry?
Landing wires installed today.
Attachment 7437 Attachment 7438
Attachment 7439 Attachment 7440
One half of the rudder is now covered.
Attachment 7441 Attachment 7442
Unfortunately, when I opened the adhesive jug, I found it was neutral color rather than green that I thought I ordered. Previously while watching Shirley Girard working on Russ Turner's Camel wings with neutral Stewarts adhesive, she noted she was adding a little chalk line blue to give a little color so she could see where she was working. I found it to be very difficult as well.
I am not sure if the SS adhesive is really different than the 3M (although several have posted that the advertised chemical make up is identical), I did have some issues:
I could not get the fabric to stick to the "dried" adhesive as is done in the SS videos. I may not have applied enough glue. However, it does react to heat and sticks when heated.
As noted above, the neutral is difficult to determine where you have glue and where you don't.
There is a definite learning curve to do it neat and tidy. I do feel pretty good about the end results however. I will not try the other side until I have sufficient time to work with it and not feel pressured.
Finally, I need to get a different iron. I tried two and the temps seem to be unstable. I did not shrink past the 250 degree setting. I think!
Rose is going off for a few days, so I will not have a helper. I think I will wait until she gets back.
I used the SS glue but didn't have much luck with sticking the fabric to the dried adhesive either.
Loved the SS System anyway.
...Paul
Paul, as I understand your comment you used the "official" SS adhesive and had the same non stick issue. If that is correct, that answers a question I had as to whether SS added something to the basic adhesive to allow it to remain tacky. I have read several comments relating the posted chemical makeup of the SS adhesive is identical to the 3M Fastbond which is what I used.
I also suspect temperature and humidity can play a big factor. I tried in a semi air conditioned room this time, but it was either raining or about to outside pretty much the whole time.
I sure don't like the neutral color. I really had a hard time determining coverage. I am thinking of adding a drop or two of water based food coloring to the next batch.
I hope to get the other side of the rudder covering started sometime this week, but my wife is gone for a few days so I have no helper. I may just wait till the weekend.
I bought the regular blue SS glue for a couple reasons:
1. The stuff in the 3M oil type jugs was a bit thick - I suspect they were pretty old before I got them, and I didn't store them very well. Getting a clean line with it was fairly trying.
2. I spilled a helluvalot of it. ;)
3. The jugs did NOT seal well, and it can't be reconstituted. For some reason, the SS containers sealed much better.
[edit]
A lot of guys will say they really enjoy covering. While I didn't hate it, I certainly did not put it under the "love" column of building, particularly since I never mastered tapes.