Young Eagles and Background Security Checks

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Originally Posted by Mark van Wyk

I believe they do check medical and possibly airplane registration and airworthiness.

DON'T THEY?

No wonder I feel so strongly that EAA Young Eagles definitely SHOULD tighten up it's eligibility requirements. That is why I believe all pilots should be willing to comply with the background check, and yes, maybe EAA needs to do more to ensure the safety of the kids.

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Ya know the only 2 guarantees in life? Death and taxes. There's now a third! When Mark puts fingers to keyboard, his remarks will spark a firestorm of outcry, controversy and criticism.

So now you also believe that completing the YE background check is the cure-all for pilot proficiency and aircraft airworthiness. You are fast becoming the 21st century equivalent of a snake oil salesmen/shill.

Wanna cure your cancer? Complete the YE background check.
Wanna solve your debt problems? Complete the YE background check.
Wanna do well on LSAT? Complete the YE background check
Looking to resolve the 5776 years old Middle East conflict? Complete the YE background check.
World peace? Yup, complete the.............


"By all means be controversial. If you get a good response, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a crazed philosopher"
--Socrates

To Mark van Wyk,

For the edification of the forum, please educate us as to why you are acting as a de-facto spokesperson for this Youth Protection Policy initiative. Serious. Inquiring minds want to know.

Your friend,
Tom Bush

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Originally Posted by rwanttaja

Make that "the unthinkable happened a second time." Our chapter had YE fatalities about ten years ago.

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So that means two fatalities (that we know of) from flying accidents over the last 10 years, compared with, as far as we've heard in this thread, zero cases of sexually inappropriate behavior against kids. Note that I'm not saying that as an argument for adding more checks of pilot proficiency, only to note that the possibility of an accident is currently judged as an "acceptable risk" by the organizers and participants in the YE program, without requirements on pilot proficiency, etc.

My personal opinion is that the accident risk is large enough that it might be reasonable to me to institute some type of additional check, maybe having a "buddy system" where another chapter member has to sign off that they are comfortable with someone flying the kids around. I have not seen any evidence that a corresponding risk exists for the things the new "protection program" attempts to protect against, so I can't but think that it seems like hysteria.

I also have a personal opinion about background checks: That when someone who has committed a crime has received their punishment, they should from then on be assumed innocent until proven guilty like the rest of us. I also don't think that it's right that people are put on public sexual offender lists for the rest of their lives, when you get put on these lists for bs like teenagers sending explicit text messages and pictures to each other if one of them happens to be underage. If it was only hardened, repeat pedophiles that were put on them, maybe, but the current system has lost all semblance of common sense.

/Patrik J.

Well...

I've been mostly lurking around this discussion, reading the opinions of others and waiting for logic to catch up to my emotional response.

My initial reaction was that the EAA could wrap their new policy around a broken beer bottle and stuff it, broken end last, where the sun doesn't shine.

After 10 days of careful consideration, I have calmed down, studied the policy carefully, and made the difficult decision to stop doing any YE flights after 01 May 2016. (FYI, I am just shy of having personally flown 500 flights. Maybe I can break 500 before May 1st.)

I am glad that the EAA has seen fit to make providing the SSN optional, because that would have been the end of my YE flights, in and of itself.

However, I find that it is impossible for me to reconcile my personal liability and flight safety policies with that of the new Youth Protection Policy, and I will not forego personal protection or flight safety to comply with arbitrary "kid safety" rules.

1) Per Policy Statement 8.a.: " In some situations, a staff member or volunteer may need to assist the Youth participant. If possible, the staff member or volunteer should encourage the parent to be present and acknowledge that the touching might occur. These situations might include: helping a Youth climb into an airplane, assisting a Youth with buckling his or her seatbelt in an airplane, ..." My airplane uses a 4-point restraint system with integral airbags at each seat. It is nearly impossible for someone unfamiliar to get the buckle's latches secured and the belts snug, so I HAVE to do it myself, to insure proper security. It's not something I can entrust to another volunteer either, as I am the PIC. (See 14 CFR 91.3). In addition, I have a low-wing airplane. Small people who can't reach the step and hand-hold have to be assisted up onto the wing in order to get into the door. However, after two incidents where over-enthusiastic parents did thousands of dollars of damage to the plane, my policy is that no parent is allowed within 20 feet of my aircraft during loading and unloading. I am too busy paying attention to the safety of the kids and pre-flight ops to keep an eye on stupid, inconsiderate "helicopter parents". (One gouged a window with an SLR camera lens so deeply that the window cracked, requiring it to be replaced; another literally JUMPED up onto the wing to take a close-up picture after I closed the door and landed squarely on the flap, bending it and the actuator arm so severely that they had to be replaced. BTW, both walked off without so much as an "I'm sorry", much less an offer to pay for the damage). I'll certainly tell parents that I will be buckling their child's seatbelt, but I'm not going to invite them to be present, to the contrary I'm going to insist that they stay well AWAY from the plane. No exceptions.

In addition, if I had my way, parents would not even be allowed outside on the ramp area during a rally. I have seen MANY close calls between parents inattentive of their surroundings that run around like squirrels vs spinning props / planes in motion.

2) Per Policy Statement 8.b.: I can no longer take video or still photography of YE participants. I ALWAYS record both audio and video using time-keyed in-cockpit video cameras and voice recorders, from engine start to engine shut-down, for my own PERSONAL liability protection. I do not tell parents I am doing this, it's none of their business (my state has one-party wiretap laws, it's being recorded inside my personal conveyance, and it's not for commercial use, so it's legal). If parents were to complain about it, their kid would be out of my plane so fast they'd probably leave a smoke trail. I will not stop protecting myself just to suit the EAA's need for protection.

3) Per Policy Statement 7.a.: No physical force or violence: Luckily it has only happened once in a decade, but I have had to use "violence" to physically shove a kid into his seat and HOLD HIM DOWN while I turned the plane around and taxied back to the ramp after he took off his seatbelt, climbed over the seat, and started wrestling with another kid over some (racial) insult they exchanged via headset during my run-up. ( I couldn't just shut down the plane and sit at the hold-short line of a towered airport, nor could I make the kid get out of the plane right there, we were in the secure area. My only options were to declare an emergency and call for the airport police or taxi back to the ramp. I chose the latter. ) THEN, His parent had the audacity to yell at me about aborting the flight. She didn't stop verbally abusing me until I threatened to call the Federal Marshall's Office and officially charge the kid with violating 14 CFR 91.11, 18 USC 32, and 49 USC 46504 ... AND THAT I HAD THE VIDEO EVIDENCE TO PROVE IT. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, yet it's against the new rules.....(but then, it might be covered under Policy Statement 9: "Discipline" -- but who makes that decision and do I get "blackballed" if some legal eagle who wasn't there decides I wasn't justified in my actions as PIC? - after all, no video allowed now (can you say Catch-22?).

Lastly, I am a flight instructor. I occasionally violate Policy Statement 6: "...extend their relationship with any Youth to other activities" and "...communicate directly with Youth via telephone, email, social media or other means outside of EAA-related programs and events" because those young people and / or their parents call me to start formal flight training as a DIRECT RESULT of having participated in a Young Eagles flight with me. I see no logic in having to turn down an opportunity to instruct or having to route appointment times, weather discussions, ground school and pre-flight assignments, etc. through the parents of a 17-year-old just because I once gave him or her a Young Eagles ride. ( BTW, I now have received a legal opinion that I could sue the EAA for restraint of trade over this particular policy if they ever tried to enforce it against me, but it just isn't worth the time and hassle to worry about "ifs and buts".)

So, in summary, I really like doing YE flights. I really enjoy seeing the joy on a kid's face and hearing it in their voice when he / she gets to actually fly my plane and then when they report that to mom or dad afterward. I think it's a great way to "give back" for my privilege to fly. I think it's a great way to encourage aviation as a career and to build bridges between aviators and the general public. But, as others have said before:

It's MY plane,
It's MY time,
It's MY money,
It's MY liability,
It's MY responsibility.

Therefore YE flights are on MY terms or NOT AT ALL. If my terms and the EAA's terms match then good, but if not then too bad. Life is too short to whine. The EAA loses. Period. I'm letting my wallet and my Wa [ 和 ] speak. I won't let the door hit my ass on the way out. I'll find other avenues by which to encourage aviation in the community and young people population. Thank you for reading this.

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EAA has been a holdout to a simpler, more rational America than the place we live in today. At Oshkosh we enjoy being among like minded individuals whose major addiction is Aviation. We live in a decent world in which our dedication is to a wholesome endeavor, figuratively and literally aspiring to a higher plane of human existence. Now we find that the sludge of modern life will reach out and drag even us down into the mire as well.

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This is the best post so far.....

I heard Paul P. speak about 1997. He said that EAA was about much more than aviation. It was about a better way of life, and that his goal was to spread that way of life, through the membership, to the community at large.

This policy is the opposite.... the intrusion of the world into the EAA culture. The camel's nose under the tent. Imagine all the other risks that the EAA takes - at Airventure, for instance - that the outside world would never tolerate.

We had yet another meeting of our chapter officers yesterday. Out chapter after March will no longer support or conduct YE flights under EAA.
A question I have asked but not received an answer to is this; If a pilot completes the background check, and the online course, takes a youth flying and later a complaint is filed against him or her, what steps will the EAA or their insurer do to defend the pilot?
My understanding from reading the insurance and the waiver is the EAA will not get involved unless the EAA directly is sued and the EAA will only defend itself. Correct? So what good is any of this to the pilot?

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Originally Posted by dusterpilot

...snip...The Youth Protection Policy has NOT been rolled out smoothly...snip...I’m going to try to figure out how to work with it...snip...The background check is free to the individual and does NOT require a SSN or other sensitive information....Bottom line…for me, I see nothing that is significantly unacceptable to prevent me from continuing to support EAA and the YE program. I’m not offended that I’m being asked to do all this...snip...I don’t mind a little extra effort to protect them from that not-so-good person...snip...I will definitely continue to fly as many Young Eagles as I can.

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BRAVO! You, sir, are my hero. Good on you and your group.

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Originally Posted by combahee

We had yet another meeting of our chapter officers yesterday. Out chapter after March will no longer support or conduct YE flights under EAA.
A question I have asked but not received an answer to is this; If a pilot completes the background check, and the online course, takes a youth flying and later a complaint is filed against him or her, what steps will the EAA or their insurer do to defend the pilot?
My understanding from reading the insurance and the waiver is the EAA will not get involved unless the EAA directly is sued and the EAA will only defend itself. Correct? So what good is any of this to the pilot?

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I'd like to see an answer to that myself ...

Personally, after may 1, I will no longer participate in the young eagles program if the current 'policy" is in force. It saddens me that after 21 years and over 12k kids flown and sponsored over 150 kids to camp @osh (as a group) that this wonderful program has become ridiculously intrusive to our privacy with no consideration on their part FORCING me to no longer be part of it. That said, I intend to continue to introduce the youth to aviation and fly as many as possible. In lieu of the Young Eagle certificate, I'll simply provide a AOPA First Flight Certificate.
https://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/A...ertificate.pdf
Attachment 5328

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Originally Posted by Skipp Burns

Personally, after may 1, I will no longer participate in the young eagles program if the current 'policy" is in force. It saddens me that after 21 years and over 12k kids flown and sponsored over 150 kids to camp @osh (as a group) that this wonderful program has become ridiculously intrusive to our privacy with no consideration on their part FORCING me to no longer be part of it. That said, I intend to continue to introduce the youth to aviation and fly as many as possible. In lieu of the Young Eagle certificate, I'll simply provide a AOPA First Flight Certificate.
https://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/A...ertificate.pdf
Attachment 5328

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This is the only way to stop all this BS from EAA, simply stone wall them and refuse to cooperate.