Private Pilot SEL and Amphibians

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Originally Posted by martymayes

Well, the TCDS says: 4PCAmM(Normal Category). Deciphered, that means 4 place, Cabin, Amphibian, Monoplane (Normal Category is self explanatory).

I think you are saying if a plane is certified as a seaplane, the pilot would be required to have a seaplane rating, since it would be precluded from land operations, which would be correct.

A C-182 is certified as a 4PCLM, 4 place cabin, land, monoplane but If you added straight floats it would become a 4PCSM and would require a seaplane rating to fly, since it would no longer be possible to operate from land.

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Perhaps the original poster would be able to register his amphibian (Taylor Coot, Pereira Osprey, etc) as a 2PCLM and then after getting his SEL rating switch it over to a 2PCSM in much the same way that a C-182 would go though the same process (though since it's experimental that may change things)? If required maybe the OP could even fix the landing gear to prevent water operations initially?

The FAA's official position is that the TCDS is NOT regulatory. And the AFM does not specify that any particular rating is required, it just covers operating limitations. I just looked at my Husky seaplane AFM. To put it another way, the aircraft certification branch is a different FAA than the airman certification branch and one branch does not issue requirements that involve the other. The FAA is a funny organization in many ways.

So I stand by the position that your pilot certificate generally sets forth privileges for the types of operations that you may execute, not the specific airplanes that you may fly. So if, when I was not certificated to fly a seaplane, I flew an amphib from one airport to another, I was merely flying an airplane with retractable landing gear and the shape of the airplane has no bearing on whether I was using my certificate properly. Note: A complex signoff applies here.

Now we are talking about amphib's, not straight seaplanes here. But you have to see a seaplane land on grass and launch off a wheeled dolly to believe it.

And we are not talking about type ratings although now I wish that I had asked Max Folsom to see what his certificate said about his C-47 on amphib floats.

So I suggest the original poster can go ahead, build the airplane, have the operating limitations issued for what it is, and operate it according to the privileges stated on the pilot certificate that he holds at that time.

A lot of the speculation above is based on real world logic, not lawyer or government employee logic. Do not confuse those things.

Best of luck,

Wes

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Originally Posted by WLIU

Now we are talking about amphib's, not straight seaplanes here. But you have to see a seaplane land on grass and launch off a wheeled dolly to believe it.

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http://youtu.be/nECnrm0DWt4

http://youtu.be/Z3bY3-o1fmk

smj8501
As to your original goal of owning an amphibious aircraft. Before you commit to buying an amphib I suggest you get some time flying one first. Amphibs are a different animal and it takes some getting used to. Amphibs taxi very strangely, steering is accomplished by asymmetrical braking. Imagine sitting in the front of a shopping cart and braking the rear tires while the front tires free caster. Taking off in an Amphib is also pretty weird. You have to pull the nose off the runway to get it to pitch up, then it wants to continue pitching up and you have to force the nose down to a normal climb pitch attitude. You need to be very proficient to land an amphib safely. There is little or no shock absorption on the main wheels. If you are sloppy you run the risk of damaging the airframe. Amphibs are also heavy. A four or even 6 passenger plane on amphibs is a 2 passenger airplane. Also keep in mind that amphibs carry the inherent risk of landing with the gear in the wrong position. It carries more risk because unlike a normal retractable gear airplane, you have to make a decision on what position the gear must be in for each landing. I know pilots with a lot of time in amphibs that have been bitten by the gear problem. Not a big deal if you land with the gear up on the ground but a really big deal if you land with the gear down on the water. My amphib time is in C185's and C206's and I'd much rather fly straight floats. Make sure you check to see how much insurance will cost before you buy.
Good luck.

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Originally Posted by smj58501

Folks... just a quick and possibly dumb question but I have to ask anyways.

I am a Private Pilot SEL. I eventually want to get an SES add on. I am also looking at which homebuilt design I want to go in on - and amphibians are at the top of the list.

So the question is this. Can I fly an amphibian with an SEL rating so long as I always operate it on land? I ask in case I get the aircraft done an with don't complete the SES add on or otherwise decide not to want to operate the aircraft on water. Thx in advance.

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Just went through this with the FAA. Yes Note: Endorsement for a complex airplane is not required unless it has retractable gear, flaps, and a controlable pitch prop. All three are required or the endorsement is not required.

61.31(i) solo is allowed in the homebuilt (experimental, therefore dooes not have a standard type certificate) also, unless Conditions and Limitations issued with the aircraft require that the pilot have the appropriate certificates and ratings. This is a standard inclusion so may apply but it also may be eliminated particularly for the case in point.