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Originally Posted by lkorona
I feel like it's more like the gas crisis of the 70's. Created by the government...….so THEY could bail us out of it.
I don't remember which politician it was who said "we can't let a good crisis go to waste", or something like that.
I listened to that briefing, and it seems like the reason the popular green tram was eliminated was because of it passing through an entrance gate. Security didn't like it. The passengers needed to show wrist bands, and it was impractical to check bags. I guess people weren't putting their 100ml liquids in their see through bag.
I think the solution to that is to do what US Customs does at some airports outside the country. The inspection is done at boarding. Then the secure tram can transition from the world of buses to the world of airplanes.
It looks like there's a reduction in total parking from 15,360 to 14,910 (-450). While the grey lot (4,500 cars) gets it's own bus line, brown, pink and yellow (5,500 cars) users have a long walk just to get to the museum bus. Reducing traffic on Waukau seems to be a major goal too.
I didn't know credit cards were accepted for parking last year. It seems they had a slow processing system though. I’m guessing communication was through the cell phone network which we know gets quite congested. Cash only now. No one asked my E-Z Pass question.
"Security" whoever that is, should not run EAA. If and when EAA hires them, EAA should tell them what they want done and not the other way around.
After watching the Chairman Briefing - EAA AirVenture 2020 Parking & Transportation Webinar
I came away with three observations.
1. The 2019 Northwestern University Transportation Center study didn't recommend eliminating the green tram route.
2. The 2019 Northwestern University Transportation Center study recommended parking visitor's automobiles farther away from the event.
3. By increasing the cost of parking by $5.00 at the gate, will make people buy advanced parking passes online to save $5.00. The reason: To park automobiles faster.
Which would only work if they did it right. The advanced sale of wristbands doesn't do much for speeding up anything. Putting the infrastructure in place and assigning people to verify passes is a whole lot more involved than grabbing an Abe from the car passing in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrongway Feldman
I really haven't had much of an opinon about Norhwestern U., but if they want to screw up Airventure which is none of their concern, I hope Ohio State beats them by say about 50 pts.
That’s about as dirt stupid as you can get and EAA bought into it. Absolutely unbelievable.
I’ve been buying a pass for a number of years now and I can absolutely tell you it doesn’t help. Why? Doesn’t matter when you’re stuck in line with cash paying folks. If this is gonna be EAA’s approach then they need to figure out how to fast track the prepaid folks from from daily cash payers. Been saying this for years but no one seems to listen. Guess that is also a too advanced concept for Northwestern.
I travel (well at least before the Covid-19 shelter in place stuff I did) on Toll Roads and over the Chicago Skyway toll bridge. I have an I-Pass/EZ Pass in my car to speed up getting thru the toll booths. EVERY time I go there WILL be at least one EZ PASS ONLY lane completely blocked by some idgit without a device who can't read and needs to pay with cash. So, will a separate lane for Parking Pass Only AirVenture visitors work? Not bloody likely says I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airmutt
The one time I had to walk through the main gate, because I was staying at Sleepy Hollow, I had my prepaid receipt and there was a seperate line for prepaid folks. It was fast and easy.
Bob
For walk-in traffic? Sure. For lines of cars looking to get into a parking lot? Good luck wit dat.Quote:
Originally Posted by robert l
I watched that briefing, my thought was have any of the briefers there ever gotten out of headquarters and actually walked the grounds during Airventure ? To do a study from kids who while supposedly videotaping the activities were on cell phones or playing games on I pad (Yes, I saw this several times) I think was a mistake IMHO. Why didn t they ask the people who actually work there for opinions ? Would have gotten better info.
Bill L
Well Bill, I know Jill, and I know for a fact that she is out and about during the whole convention.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyfixer8
Ya just can’t fix stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICAGORANDY
This was MHO which probably doesn t mean much. I don t know any of the people on the webinar, Thanks for the update.
After listening to the webinar, I didn't hear anything on how much general admission traffic will exit on 113 and head north on Poberezny to the lots. I come in to camp Scholler with a rather large unit and am frustrated waiting in line for an hour or more behind general admission vehicles to get to camper registration. Maybe I will have to come during the week before to avoid some traffic.
Pretty sure it was said that if the south bound Route 44 exit backs up it will be closed and traffic will be sent south to the Route 26 exit. Pretty sure the south bound Route 44 exit has been closed at times the past couple of years. The Route 44 exit has backed up onto 41 which is a very real safety concern and the State Police wanted something done about it. That area is a problem as you have east and west bound Route 44 traffic and north and south bound Route 41 traffic and three lights to get through.Quote:
Originally Posted by izznsky
Watched the webinar last night.......
I got the same thing out of it, but IMO that only moves the problem from Exit 116 down to Exit 113. Several years ago when the Blue Angles performed southbound existing traffic backed up almost to Lake Butte de Morts. I was traveling north from Exit 116 can’t imagine what traffic coming up from Milwaukee was like. Still sticking to my guns, until they separate cash from prepaid the log jam entering the lots is still going to exist.
They said that this was just Phase I. They should have shared more details on the grand plan; probably would have saved a lot of grumbling from us members. EAA can keep shuffling the dominos but in reality unless something major changes they are truly land locked.
They are are obviously trying to move the congestion off Waukau. Adding more parking along the west side of Poberezny helps but it puts more pressure on the museum shuttle line. Not a single word was said about increasing service, hmm. And it increases the foot traffic trying to cross Poberezny which in turns slows down traffic. Just a little nuance the study seems to overlook, again hmm. How about a temporary foot bridge over Poberezny?? The presentation did not address impacts created by Sleepy Hollow or the gypsy lots.
Glad to see they’re improving access to the Gray lot. At least there they’ve establishing a dedicated shuttle route using a lane on Waukau.
Not happy about losing the Blue Lot for general parking. I think they total misunderstand the vehicle problem. Parked vehicles inside the fence is NOT the problem. The number of scooters, golf carts and ATVs running all over the place is THE problem. Also seems that EAA is bending over backwards for the vendors at the expense of general membership who park.
I also now understand why the Green tram line got nixed. Based on other comments on this forum they probably should have thought how to keep the route inside the fence vs killing the route. I’m a walker so it really doesn’t impact me.
Not sure why EAA is so vested in the Northwestern study. Sure would have been nice if they had asked for some EAA membership peer review inputs. It’s painfully obviously neither the EAA staff or Northwestern have any firsthand experience on general admission parking. Personal observations based on 40+ years of attending.
"I also now understand why the Green tram line got nixed. Based on other comments on this forum they probably should have thought how to keep the route inside the fence vs killing the route. I’m a walker so it really doesn’t impact me."
Could you tell us why you now understand? Was it something about access at the gate? Were folks getting through without a wrist band? Every time I've been on the green tram you needed to show your wrist band to the person at the gate.
Sure, the Green Line went outside the fence to the Bus Park. When it returned EAA had to perform a bag check as mandated by security requirements and of course also a band check to ensure all aboard had paid for attendance. It was viewed as taking too long.
I think they could and should rethink this by creating a bump out to put the Green Line Bus Park turnaround inside the controlled area. Then the security checks could be accomplished prior to boarding. Problem solved??? Just one crusty guy’s opinion.
Hey, I was a conductor on the Greem tram now and then - I instructed all passengers to show the 'guard' in the little shack their wristband as we passed.As they did I also verified everyone had one.Can't speak to the value of any 'bag checks', since it is the norm to land aircraft and park them on the grounds, inside the fenced area, without bag searches or airplane searches.
I can assure anyone interested that I do NOT understand why they have chosen to nix the valued service. ALL the ridership sure seemed to appreciate it.
Randy, It seems everyone has a different point of view, the volunteers, the users, EAA staff and of course the Northwestern transportation study. Just looking from the outside in but to me the volunteers and users didn’t get much of
“vote”.
They never did a bag check when entering the gate (31) on the Green tram route. The tram would slow down, security at the gate would say' Lets see your wrist bands and that was it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lkorona
If you had to buy a wrist band the green tram route was not much help because you had to go over to the main gate. Then you would enter the grounds there.
The green tram did come in handy at the end of the day to get back to the bus park.
They could fire it up at the end of the day. One way west.
Two good points. If some bad actors wanted to do something bad, there is plenty of chain link fencing to crawl over at night. Someday they will start searching landing aircraft.Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICAGORANDY
Northwestern transportation study didn't recommend eliminating the Green tram route, Security did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airmutt
The terrorist have won. We changed are behavior do to the fact that we believe its better to be safe than sorry.
Rather than trust. Are we really Free. There's a boogeyman in every bush.
Thanks for the reply. I've taken the gran tram very often over the years, and never seen any real delays with the wrist band check, just hold up your arm for 10 seconds while the tram passes the gate. The bag check is something started just in the past few years, practically a worthless exercise in security drama theater, but again not a big deal in terms of flow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airmutt
in all I don't see what the big deal is.
I too am disappointed that the Green tram will not run any more. I used that one a lot. I never got a survey asking about the trams.
I have filled out a lot of EAA Surveys (none on this topic, however). I know, stupid. On each survey there is a section near the bottom asking for comments. ON EVERY survey I ask them to acknowledge back to my email that they have read my survey. I have NEVER had one acknowledgement!. I have stopped wasting my time on their stupid placating surveys. They're going to do what they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbandstr