Nice rationalizations, but....still illegal.... (Or do we only follow the rules we want to?)
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Nice rationalizations, but....still illegal.... (Or do we only follow the rules we want to?)
Justin,
Eloquent case for common sense!
Gerry,
You are correct, it is illegal given the FCC reg's. There is an old saying about America; "a county of laws, poorly written and badly enforced!" If all the laws currently on the books were actually enforced we would need a lot more "enforcers", courts, and jails and higher taxes to pay for it all. If all the states actually stopped all the trucks and reviewed all the log books we'd have to add at least 30% more trucks on the road to deliver the current level of loads. In reality, there are a lot of "rules" that we don't follow because they don't make sense. Politicians write the laws and some hold offices to enforce the laws, these guys all react to public pressure so yes "we only follow the rules we want to" does apply.
Joe
:cool:
And because the Speed limit on the highway is 65 mph in PA means that you have NEVER driven on the highways at 65+? It's illegal you know...Quote:
Originally Posted by rosiejerryrosie
You wouldn't belive me if I said that is true. Would you?Quote:
Originally Posted by justinvon811
Bottom line - I don't need to text when I'm driving or flying. But then what I have to say is probably not as important as what you have to say that it can't wait until I'm stationary. I wonder how the folks ever got the Constitution writen and passed - they didn't even have telephones !!
I just wanted to point out that cell phones in the 1300-1500MHz are pretty close to the GPS frequencies (1575.42MHz), and with the roll-off and relative power of each, yes, there could be some problems...think about the issues with Lightsquared right now. Lightsquared is not that close to the GPS frequencies, but they still have major problems.Quote:
GPS (yes, it uses frequencies): 1575.42 & 1227.60 Mhz
(drum roll please...........)
Cell phones (slightly paraphrased): 700, 800-900, 1300-1500, 1700+ Mhz... All of which in Mhz.
That said, and each pilot knows his equipment and when it is critical, and can make those determinations. If I don't care if my GPS takes a synch hit, what does it matter?
Jerrie...for the last time...it's not illegal:Quote:
Nice rationalizations, but....still illegal.... (Or do we only follow the rules we want to?)
FAR 91.21:
Sec. 91.21
Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to--
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other
aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
Part b.5, as long as I (being the PIC) determine it's not going to cause problems with some navigation equipement I am using (which is usually only my eyeballs and a chart) then it is perfectly legal.
As a former truck driver, I can report that it is very hard to exceed the speed limit in company owned fleet trucks, they are all governed around 65. It is possible to go faster if you get on a long downgrade in the mountains...not many drivers will allow it to "run away" you can burnout the brakes and wind-up "over the edge". As for the founding fathers, I think they would be amazed at what happened to the 13 "states" with 13 million people over the last 200 plus years! We have to remember the only constant in nature is change, today we have a "service economy" where new inventions move from "toys for the rich" to necessary items for the average person. Even Thomas Jefferson and his friends put the amendment process into the Constitution, but they didn't envision 50 states with different regional interests. Multi-tasking maybe a big deal in the business world, but the current wave of texting while driving is getting people killed. We will continue to see politicians making it illegal to text while driving, but enforcing that kind of law will remain a weak effort.
I think we have beat this horse to death! Distractions are a major cause of accidents, it's up to us as individuals to stay focused and safe.
Joe
:cool:
How timely......the NTSB has weighed in on texting and cell phone use while driving. The two activities should not be simultaneously performed. I think they are correct but there is no doubt a segment of the population who will feel that recommendation is not applicable to them.
And I bethca you don't think that the LightSpeed proposed network doesn't interfer with GPS signals because they are on different frequencies. Can you spell harmonics? Yep guns don't kill people, people texting kill people....Quote:
Originally Posted by justinvon811
Did your CFI ever rag on you about keeping your head out of the cockpit? Mine did but then he was prolly wrong .. after all he was one of those rare birds... and old pilot...
Maybe it is time for this thread to be absorbed in to the "eternal debates in aviation" thread that Frank Giger started?
I doubt it will be an eternal debate. Just a matter of time till a plane crashes and the investigators find out seconds before the pilot was texting. It's inevitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet Davidson
Really? Texting has been available for 15+ years & no aviation accidents or incidents in all that time.
Maybe that's because most people have been following the rules....'til now. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet Davidson
You mean by only texting in the cockpit when no navigational aid will be affected (thereby no rules are broken)?Quote:
Maybe that's because most people have been following the rules....
(sorry, apparently I had one last one in me)
uh. yeah, it is:Quote:
Originally Posted by teknosmurf
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-devices-airplanes
edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/pdf/47cfr22.925.pdf
if you don't believe what you read, call and ask them:
1-888-225-5322
i phoned. rosiejerryrosie is right. it's illegal.
he was. It was part of the pre-landing checklist required cabin announcement. people who operate by "understanding" not facts often don't comply with rules because they think the rules don't make sense, or don't apply to them, or won't be enforced, or don't have consequences. well, the law of gravity applies to each of us (otherwise why do we have aircraft?) and eventually the ignorant, non-compliant, acting-on-incomplete-understanding gentleman would have realized that after we exhausted the fuel supply. but no, i'm not that dumb. y'see, i'd read the rules about alternative courses of action, and if i hadn't discovered what he was doing, he'd a'bin someplace else costing the airline money to get him and his fellow passengers back to colorado springs. sheesh. just read the rules, do what they say, until research pins down all the FACTS so we can benefit from the wealth of EXPERIENCE and amend the rules if appropriate. aviation, electronics, and avionics aren't political science or democracy. they're actual science, like physics and aerodynamics and other stuff that isn't governed by public opinion polls or rigged voting.Quote:
Originally Posted by teknosmurf
Of course the nasty little secret about GA is that one can do just about anything without censure until there's a wreck or incident.
Might as well start a thread about wearing swim fins while piloting an aircraft - somebody will come out and say they've been doing it for thirty years without a problem!
My opinion on this topic is that it can be dangerous, but it depends. If you are flying in a plane with no auto-pilot, or a glider, then obviously, it's a stupid idea. But in a plane with auto-pilot, it still isn't smart (in event of an emergency), but it isn't as dangerous.
I just read a quote that may apply here. "Most aviation rules are written in blood" (ie-Most rules come about because of someone else's blood)
Besides the potential electrical interference issues, how is texting on a phone different than unfolding a sectional chart, studying the chart/looking for your location, and then folding it back up again?
Seems to me that both actions will divert your attention from flying, but presumably charts are still being used in airplanes.
I pre-fold my sectional and have it open on my thigh board for easy reference. On the board itself is a quick guide for frequencies & runways for the usual airports in the area.
Years spent as an Artillery Forward Observer makes navigation not so difficult, particularly since I'm usually going less than 70 mph IAS.
Like Frank, my charts are prepared before I get into the airplane. All I need do is glance down at them and the line I drew during my preflight. Or do most of you preflight while in the air?
Well, we don't know that texting hasn't been a factor in any airplane accident. Perhaps it hasn't been cited as such but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosiejerryrosie
Isn't the issue with texting and driving is that the "heads down" time is distracting the person from the task at hand? I'm curious how "heads down" time while texting in an airplane is okay, shouldn't everyone be "seeing and avoiding" other traffic? Texting has absolutely no role in safety of flight like navigating and other things that some are saying is equally distracting.
Sad day for aviation when folks are defending texting while flying.
In my own aircraft I'll take a cue from the Army pilots and write freqs on the inside of the windscreen with an alcohol pen before leaving out.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosiejerryrosie
Then again I'm still concentrating on the Aviate-Navigate parts of flying and Communicating only as absolutely required.
So you never fly from one side of the sectional to the other side? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Giger
Rarely!
But that's when one buys a second sectional, tapes it to the first, and fold for a quick flip if required!
Bear in mind, though, that I fly a Champ. ;)
That's one solution. Another is to first fold your sectional down the middle (lengthwise) and the accordion fold it so that it is one panel wide. From that point, one can see the whole chart by flipping to open, page by page, like reading a book. Need to go to the other side of the chart? Easy - flip it over and open to the correct page..... Easier to demonstrate than it is to explain.
Actually, the FCC only prohibits the operation of ANALOG cell phones in flight. No such restriction on digital phones -- I looked it up on the FCC's Website. The old regulation still stands because the old analog phones could "lock up" several cellular nodes at once if they were elevated high enough. Digital phones do not have this problem. The FAA prohibits inflight cell use on Part 121 carriers.
I use my cell on the Hurricane. It's in a mount on the left hand side of the cockpit and I use it for foreflight and charts. I also keep a sectional or TAC on my kneeboard along with my VFR flight plan if I'm leaving the immediate area of the field.
For me, texting while driving is dangerous than texting while flying. But when flying cellphones are prohibited right?