It looks to me that the majority of comments favored Proposal "C" for Sportsman. Why did the board decide to use Proposal "A"?
Just asking.
SB
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It looks to me that the majority of comments favored Proposal "C" for Sportsman. Why did the board decide to use Proposal "A"?
Just asking.
SB
My educated guess is that if you compare 2012 Sportsman Proposal A to the 2011 Sportsman Known, you will find it way too similar. One sub-plot of the design of the Sportsman Known Programs is providing a framework where the Sportsman pilots will master the full range of foundation skills, not just the figures, required to post a good score at a contest. Flying different combinations of figures each year is a small step towards that goal.
You should try writing up new sequence cards with different combinations of figures for each flight, or every small series of practice flights, but the topic of how to practice to build your skills is too lengthy for now. :)
Regards,
Wes
N78PS
Can I get one of these for the Green Mountain Acrobatic Contest. Showed up and watched one day of practice and one day of competition and no one to ask questions of outside the "Authorized Personnel" only fence.Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroAcro
Many folks do not realize that there is a sort of aptitude test. Its not formal and no one actually grades it. You did not find anyone to ask questions of at the Green Mountain Aerobatic Contest because everyone was either competing or administering the contest. It takes a LOT of volunteers to make a contest happen. I will also note that just like any other competitive sport, when it is nearing your time to fly, you get your game face on, you up your level of focus to block out everything but your upcoming 4 minutes of fult tilt boogie in the box, and your world starts to shrink down to your airplane.
All of that said, the aptitude test is YOU mustering the hutzpa to walk into the office where the paperwork is flying, or stepping past the fence, and asking a question of one of the participants. I have every expectation that any question that you have will be enthusiastically answered unless you happen to pick the pilot next up into the box. But YOU have to ask. For better or worse, aerobatics competition is a sport for outgoing motivated people. That appears to be the type of pilot who thinka that pulling +6G and pushing -3G in front of a jury of their peers is fun. You are welcome to include yourself in that group. All that is required is to step past the fence. In spite of the sign. No one is holding you back.
Casual aerobatics is a somewhat different activity. Lots of fun, but different from the contest world. There are a larger population of folks who do an occaisional loop or roll or spin. Our IAC chapter hosts aerobatic practice days where everyone gets some time in the box and there are no medals or trophies or egos at stake. You are welcome to go to the chapter web site to see that schedule and then stop by. Much more relaxed. But you will still have to step past the fence.
Not sure where you are based, but the Green Mountain Aerobatic Contest is MY contest. As the outgoing President of IAC Chapter 35, I invite you to stop by a chapter meeting, or step past the fence, and ask all of the questions that you have. The club is inclusive at all levels. You just have to include yourself.
Regards,
Wes
N78PS :)
Exactly right. Excellent post.Quote:
Originally Posted by WLIU
Eric
As an Intermediate competitor I vote for Intermediate proposal "P"
Uh, You are in good company. The IAC Board voted to select P a couple of weeks ago. Some folks have already started practicing.
See you at the box.
Wes
N78PS
That ASK spin restriction was pointed out to the Board before the vote. Their decision is a "dog whistle" that they hope no one can hear. They obviously don't want "your kind" as the Prez put it at the 2010 Nationals. Probably too many furriners for their jingoistic tastes. I don't know why you guys put up with this neverending garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by soldanr
Well, if you think that the rules should be changed, you should become one of us guys and make your voice heard in a forum more relevant than a web thread. I have personally had a few valuable exchanges with Brian Howard, chairman of the IAC Rules Comittee, over the years and like any organization, you get out what you put in. I will note that the rules about the awarding of medals and trophies at Nationals, to foreign national pilots, were modified this year after input from the membership. So if you are an IAC member, I encourage you to become active in your chapter. If you are not an IAC member, I encourage you to become one.
As far as the glider aerobatics rules, I think that the Competition Committee folks have a valid concern that any ship that is placarded against spins has a lower safety margin doing aerobatics at competition altitudes. Blowing a figure into a spin during a competition flight is exciting in a fully aerobatic ship. I can only imagine how awful it would be seeing a hammer blown into a spin in a ship placarded against spins. We all go out there planning to fly a perfect flight, but we hardly ever do, and the glider aerobatic flights that I have Judged at Nationals have shown me that gliders have enough handicaps in the box that I am surprised that pilots out there want to add flying a non-spinnable ship to the list. And all of the power pilots have to spin, so IAC is not discriminating against the glider pilots in general. Its a competition and your showing up with the right equipment is part of the competition.
Hope this logic makes sense.
Wes
N78PS
It did to me. One of the reasons the IAC enjoys such a great record at contests is the overarching commitment to safety from the rules to tech inspections to the design of sequences. Even the first time, Power Primary category competitor has the expectation of being able to safely perform a spin in whatever they brought to the contest. I personally think there's a reason for that which is that being proficient at spins is a foundational skill every single acro pilot must have to safely fly any acro at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by WLIU
Hopefully most will see this for what it is - a safety prerequisite to join the ranks of responsible aerobatic pilots. The NTSB database is full of pilots who put off their spin/upset training and/or flew acro in planes not specifically designed for it.
So I guess the glider Sportsman Known sequences in 2009, 2010 and this tear were unsafe aberrations, as was the glider Intermediate for this year, since none of them had a spin. With this line of thinking, we should put a vertcal up snap roll in the Sportsman Known? And competitors can be responsible for bringing equipment that can do it. No, this sequence was drawn , IMO, with the specific intent of eliminating one group who the powers to be perceive as a thorn in their collective side. They were told in 2010 not to bother coming to Nationals any more, and in 2011 they didn't. The Board has now eliminated half of its glider flying membership from competition. Joe Arpaio would be so proud.
I just want to make sure I clarify my previous post. Our ASK-21 CAN spin with a Spin-Kit that adds weight to the tail. There are no placards against it, however aerobatics are prohibited with the kit installed. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by WLIU
I am glad to hear that Category Trophies can also be handed out to non-citizens at Nationals. I was informed that only medals would be handed out.
Best,
Rafael
"unsafe aberations" - Based on some interactions that I have had in the past year with the IAC Board, my guess is that the members who believe that competition should make each pilot demonstrate the full range of skills prevailed in the discussion over the inclusion of the spin. Those folks likely believe that omitting the spin was indeed an "unsafe aberation". Like it or not, the Competition Comittee seems to believe that each year's Known Program should put the competitiors in the position of demonstrating that they posess, or are developing (sometimes under duress) the full range of flying skills expected at each level.
Its a competition, not a fly in. I will offer the proposition that the pilot who brings equipment that can do all of the figures including the spin, and then demonstrates the ability to fly all of those figueres well, should receive a higher score than the pilot who, for perhaps good reasons, can not meaure up to that scale. Many of us fly each contest. Only a few go home with trophies.
One unspoken facet of aerobatic competition at all levels is that to be successful you must organize and fund equipment and training and time to bring your skills up to a high level. And to do that, you have to organize other parts of your personal life and priorities. The moment that you dive into the contest box is only the culmination of all of that preparation.
All of that said, just about all of us have demands on our time and $$ that compete with aviation. Not having the best equipment on contest day doesn't make you a less skilled or talented pilot, just a guy with perhaps less means. Enjoy flying the heck out of the ship that you have. Be successfull in your non-aviation life and you will find a way to fly that super-ship.
Regards,
Wes
N78PS
Rafael,Quote:
Originally Posted by soldanr
I think that Wes misspoke (miswrote?)... as you might have heard elsewhere, all Nationals participants are eligible to win flight medals; only U.S. citizens are eligible to win category trophies. This is per the current P&P (503, I think).
Jim
Merry Christmas,
Since Jim has provided a nudge to see if my imperfect middle aged recollection was correct, I went digging for the real data.
I will first point out that my actual statement was "I will note that the rules about the awarding of medals and trophies at Nationals, to foreign national pilots, were modified this year after input from the membership." I am pretty sure that the point I was trying to make was that we should all participate in the process and that the IAC Board is not just an elite group of acro snobs that ignores all of us great unwashed out here in the hinterlands.
So I went digging on the IAC web site to see what had been published. If you have not spent any time in the Members section, the IAC rulebook, Policy and procedures, contest results, and Board Meeting Minutes are published there. Soooo.... I did not find anything new in the Policy and Procedures (the IAC is often slow in updating this stuff anyway), but I found the discussion that I remembered in the minutes of the recent IAC Board meeting. The meeting minutes state
"Doug Bartlett asked that the Board address the issue of the nationality eligibility requirement for the various awards given at Nationals. As decided last year, only US citizens are eligible to be National Champions but everyone is eligible for individual flight medals. However, there are many other awards given that should be defined. The following determinations were suggested:
• Non-flying awards: Any IAC member
• Curtis Pitts Memorial Trophy: Unrestricted award
• Safety Award: Any US Nationals pilot or volunteer (determined by Contest Director, not necessary to
award every year).
• “Old Buzzard” Award: Any pilot but can only be won once
• Chapter Team Trophy: Any IAC chapter (no restriction on nationality of pilots)
• Grassroots Award: Any pilot flying a plane that qualifies
• First-time Sportsman Award: Any pilot flying his or her first sportsman contest ever
• L. Paul Soucy Aerobatic Award: Any IAC pilot regardless of nationality
• John Serafin Trophy: Any glider pilot
• Bob Schnuerle Trophy: The status of the winner of the four-minute free will changed to National Champion
of the Four-Minute Free. Therefore, US citizens only.
• Goodrich Trophy: non-US citizens
• Mike Murphy Cup: US citizen only because this trophy is awarded to the Unlimited National Champion
• Betty Skelton Trophy: US woman only
• MT-Propeller Trophy: US citizen because this trophy is awarded to the Advanced National Champion (this is a change in wording)
• Fred Leidig Trophy: US citizen because this trophy is awarded to the Intermediate National Champion"
Since I have always been a US Citizen, I have to admit that I previously thought that non-citizens were not eligible for ANY awards, so the policy articulated above looks like an upgrade to me. But then, I also think that folks who are not yet US citizens ought to follow in he path of Sergei Boriak, the new US Advanced Champion. Its not instant gratification, but then neither is competition.
Regards,
Wes
N78PS
Thanks for the clarification Jim. I could not find any additional changes.
Like Wes mentioned: It is a matter of showing up with all the "right stuff"... Well, I only have 4 more years to go for Citizenship to have the right stuff.
Regardless of several trophies offered out there: If you compete in aerobatics your goal is to WIN, otherwise we wouldn't be competitors. I think there is really only one trophy that we are all after. So regardless of the medals, trophies, awards and a good job tap on the back nothing really changed.
I know a few of the board members myself and I respect the decision they have reached so far. Yes, it is very discouraging to only a few of US but like every other competition rules need to be followed and respected. I am a supporter, and I vote that U.S Citizens and U.S residents should be legible for obvious reasons.
Until then it is hard to justify going to the Nationals. The only thing I can do is keep counting the days.
I would offer the observation that if you show up and fly, no matter whether or not the officials hand you a trophy, your peers will know who the best pilot of the day is. I recall that once upon a time Leo Loudenslager competed for the world championship and was not awarded the first place trophy. If I recall correctly, there might have been some politics involved. Anyway, my imperfect recollection is, after the official awards ceremony, the Russian team took Leo aside and presented him with a model airplane. Their statement was something to the effect that "We know who the best pilot here is."
So I would encourage you to show up and fly. If you can post a score better than the individual who is handed the first place trophy, your peers will note that. And you, the person who counts most, will know.
Regards,
Wes
N78PS