Yep, those are indeed cooling fins. The unit has to be placed vertically, and if it goes over 180 degrees for extended periods it could fry.
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Yep, those are indeed cooling fins. The unit has to be placed vertically, and if it goes over 180 degrees for extended periods it could fry.
While I sort out how to run the fuel and electrical systems, I have been lax in showing how I mounted the oil cooler.
Simplicity itself - some steel cut and bent to fit the engine and cooler:
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rad001.jpg
It came with straight fittings, but I didn't like the way the hoses would drape over the engine - so now the fittings face rearwards.
I'll run the hoses back and then up and over from the rear.
The angle is such to where the air flows through the holes in the cooler.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rad002.jpg
The back isn't blocked off, but it will still be a high pressure area to cool my oil.
Fuel system is in!
Just a few pics for something I spent a lot of time thinking about, trying to make it simpler and less complex with every iteration.
First up is the stupid fuel strainer. I went through a host of trials using screens and stuff with little to show for it. And then I remembered the purpose of the strainer isn't to work as a filter, but to keep junk in the tank that's big enough to clog the line itself until it gets to the filter.
Hmmm, a bit of copper tubing with 1/8th inch holes drilled in it should keep 1/4" sized junk out of the lines.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fuel001.jpg
I flow tested it by running water through the fitting and then putting on the pipe bit - no restriction. It also marked my first soldering in about 30 years.
I want a fuel cut off, and this is where a lot of trial and error factored in. Running it over, across, down the fuselage to where I could reach it by hand and then back down to the firewall presented more problems than it solved.
The plane is just so small that no matter how I ran it either it was too close to my feet and the pedals, rubbed by the aileron control rods, or otherwise too complex.
It occurred to me that I could put it on the tank, and since it's a big lever to operate, position it so that if there was trouble I could lift my foot and kick it over.
A few trials from the seat and it's a winner. One can't accidentally bump the lever in flight, but it's not difficult to put a toe of a shoe on it with the left foot and push it shut.
No real love on returning it into position, though. One is committed when the fuel is shut off.
Note the bottom of the tank has just a plug put into it. It'll be a condition inspection item to drain the tank and pull that plug for any trash or water that might accumulate there throughout the year.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fuel002.jpg
On the engine side of the firewall, I put in a bog standard gascolator. First off, I like the idea of one. Secondly, I bought one about two years ago when I was on a purchase tear for stuff I might need.
The lines are fire sleeved up to the electric pump (which is below the level of the fuel tank), and then up and over to the carb.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fuel003.jpg
The oil lines got a clamp to the mount to keep them out of the way of the hot stuff and to clean things up a bit.
I'm thinking of putting a bit of sheeting between the pump and the exhaust pipes (there's quite a bit of room between them, but I don't know how hot they will get) as a heat shield.
Fuse box arrived in the mail today, so I'll start the prep for the electrical system, mounting everything for the wiring job.
I had to buy and mount a voltage meter onto the panel, which went amazingly well. I had room for it under the other VDO gauges and it looks aesthetically pleasing IMHO. Didn't take a pic of it, though.
Just a thought about your exhaust heat concerns. First let me say I am NOT an A & P, but on my race cars I use ceramic fiber wrap around the pipes. It lowers under hood temps by quite a bit. Of course there is probably a very good reason that you can not or should not use it on an airplane.
just a thought
Rick
p.s. Here is a link as an example.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...MobileSwitchNo
and here is the installation instructions for the brand I use
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/PD...WrapISheet.pdf
I'm assuming it's light weight, and therefore worth looking into.
Quote:
Of course there is probably a very good reason that you can not or should not use it on an airplane.
We never say "can not" in the world of experimentals, though we do use the phrase "should not" now and then. :)
I may be over thinking the heat from a VW exhaust pipe, though.
Two things Frank. You should put a drain valve on that fuel tank sump and check it before every flight. You probably figure out a way to run a hose from the valve out the bottom. Also your gascolator is unsupported. Spruce has a bracket to mount it in and you can bolt it to the firewall with some stand offs. Don
I had a lot of conversations about the sump at the bottom of the fuel tank with my EAA brethren (including our tech advisers), and the question becomes:
If I have a gascolator to check for water before each flight, why check the sump as well?
If I check the sump before each flight, why have a gascolator? Might as just put a regular fuel filter in the line instead.
So the gas is checked in each pre-flight; I'm not that cavalier! I just see no reason to check two places on the tank before each flight.
If there is any water in the fuel at the gascolator, the tank has to be drained and the sump plug pulled, as it would in any arrangement.
On the gascolator itself, the pictures don't show just how solidly it is attached. I'll give it a bunch more looks and take into consideration the notion of additional support though - that's why I put up pictures in the first place, to get opinions on the work!
As always, thank you for all that point out possible weaknesses in the build! It's the sort of things that will keep me safer than the ideas I come up with on my own.
About that drain...
The one below the tank , COULD be full of water ( After Time )
and you might only drain off a little at the gascolator...
I don't know what type of maneuver you'd need... Probably inverted...
But I wouldn't want a Cup of water ready to join the fuel...
.
I agree with a way to tap that ... if not every flight...
SOMETIMES ... just for peace of mind...
.
Just My TOO SCENTS...
.
.
Gotta Fly...
JAM
.
There's good arguments for NOT having a gascolator. Mainly, in an event where the plane ends up on it's belly, the gascolator will likely be compromised and unless the shutoff valve is closed in the heat of the moment, it will empty the fuel tank increasing the potential for fire. Simply drain the sump during preflight and go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Giger
You mean on it's back, not belly?
Because if I'm in a wreck where it takes the gear off my just-over-ultralight aircraft, leaking fuel will be third or fourth down the list of things to worry about.
Frank,
My D.VII has the same fuel tank as your plane. I installed a sump valve, disposable filter....and no gascolator. The sump can be easily drained every preflight, sump fuel drains down the clear hose and through the bottom of the plane.
Attachment 4986
This is just a fit-up, finished installation with have clamps on the hoses. There is stainless braided hose with AN fittings firewall forward.
Hmmm, I could run a line from the bottom to the current gasolator and just run the fuel line next to it with a filter - no need for a cutoff valve there. The gascolator gets a plug where the fuel line comes out presently - making it a sump-within-a-sump. Since it's already installed, no need to remove it.
Easy transition through the firewall in a straight through-and-through with fittings, and a filter. Put the fuel line higher than the gascolator and it isn't the lowest part of the system.
Tomorrow is touch up paint on the fuselage and wings (they got a little beat up, nothing major) as well as an inspection - out to the airfield this week! Gotta cut the cowl, too, which is going to be one of those "hold your breath" moments.
You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add,
but when you have nothing more to take away.
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I like the solution because it has a certain Rube Goldberg "why did you do that?" element to it.
Well...guess I've never considered Mr. Goldberg as an icon of aircraft design.....except in those cartoons on the last page of the magazines...... ;)
Frank, the fuel system has caused more crashes during early flights than any other mechanical failure. Those of use who are EAA Tech Counselors are justifiably concerned when we see fuel system components/designs that are outside "normal".
Think very carefully before following Mr. Goldberg's lead. The last thing we want is somebody saying "why did you do that?".
Best wishes for a speedy and quality conclusion of your build.
Actually it is simpler.
I'm just keeping the gascolator there instead of just a drain cock.
The actual fuel line will be like yours.
So I spent a very wet day (CAVU, but I was drenched! ) re-configuring the fuel system while also inspecting and cleaning up the wings in prep for Friday's move out to the airport.
Naturally I'm deferring to wiser heads, and now the fuel line has a filter and goes to the pump from there. There's now a line from the sump as well.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fuel004.jpg
It's hard to get a good picture, but the fuel exits to the left and slightly higher than the sump drain.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fuel005.jpg
Here's from the engine side of the firewall. I ditched the gascolator and just put on the drain thingie from it. Now I'll be testing the sump before each pre-flight.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fuel006.jpg
I'll put a little clamp on the sump line where it is near the battery box tomorrow. I'm just too hot to do it today.
:)
Airplane is out in the hangar - the hour was too late and I was just too smoked from loading and unloading it in the Alabama heat that I didn't put her together. I'll do that this afternoon.
What a grand adventure!
I headed out to the airfield at about 1600, only to drive straight into a massive thunderstorm - and me with the vertical stab in the bed of the truck. Oh well, that's why there's drain holes!
I had told the wife that it would be about four hours in assembly, and I'd be home around 2100. It's now 0045 and a whole new day!
I had brought all the tools needed, except one....and it wasn't needed until the end, and I started with the vertical stab. Somehow my labels for which one goes where had faded or rubbed off, so I got to play the "nope, this goes on the other side" game for far too long. Putting the rudder on was simplicity itself, though, so I guess that was the reward.
The upper wing went together in a snap - sure is nice to work with level surfaces - and I threw some ropes over the roof beams and hoisted it up from the saw horses I put it on to get it started. Up, up she went, first one side, then another, and the plane slid under it smoothly. One of the sawhorses went under the tail wheel.
Much fussing with the bolts for the front cabanes. Thank goodness for my telescoping magnet thingie - if not for it the upper wing would definately rattle with a collection of wayward nuts and bolts. I actually had to take a break to cool down both figuratively and literally.
But they went in with a minumum of profanity, and the wing settled down into the rear cabane with the gentlest of persuasion with a rubber mallet. Bolts in!
And then I was in interplane strut hell. The right one simply did not want to line up with the holes, even after my little trick of rotating the compression strut slightly to get a better angle at it. I gave it a rest and put the left one on - which naturally gave no problems. After a short break, I gave that bit of aeroplane some color commentary and it got the message.
Lower wings were sort of fussy, but nothing compared to some of the laugh olympics shenanigans they've provided in the past.
Wires went on okay, but I had left behind my little screwdriver with a shaft that fits the turn buckles perfectly. I used a rivet that was in my tool bag, but there's two on each side that need more tightening. I'll get to them next time.
One of my aileron push rod holes is about 3/8 an inch too far back and it's scrubbing. The other is just fine. But I'll have to perform some minor surgery on that.
And go around making sure I didn't miss putting a nut on something somewhere.
But she sure looks happy in that hangar (which I'll describe with pics next time, as I didn't bring my camera, and it certainly has character).
Frank, When I do any major assembly I get several of my friends to look everything over very closely. It is amazing how many things you can miss. Don
Oh, that's one of the perks being an EAA member - I've got a good group of guys to give her a close look over. Bonus - we're all cordial and on good terms, but not quite friends; they won't have any worries about offending me by way of criticism.
:)
I brought the camera along yesterday to take some pictures of build progress, but didn't take any relating to it! Just too busy working when that got started. Before that, though, I grabbed some pics of my new digs.
Hey, is that...is that a hangar? I wonder what's inside?
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hangar001.jpg
Oh, lovely! What a neat little aeroplane!
One's first hangar is a bit like one's first apartment, I guess. I had asked for - and gotten - the least desirable one on the field in order to negotiate for the lowest price. This one has a nasty tendency to let water into it under the door for the first three feet of the hangar due to run off.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hangar002.jpg
Like all first apartments, it came with obnoxious roommates.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hangar003.jpg
I found we were incompatible after discovering she was far too goth for my liking and had to get rid of her. Plus it turns out she had a sister hiding inside an old cinder block on the floor in the corner.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hangar004.jpg
Plus she had some friends that stayed from time to time that just left dirt in piles or long streams on the shelves and walls.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hangar005.jpg
Each airport has its own flavor, and Talledega is no exception. When assembling the aircraft I worked until after dark. Around seven or eight somebody started up their hot rod and just revved and revved the engine. Annoying. Then their buddy joined in. What the f... Then a loud speaker started warbling and the National Anthem kicked up. Stopping work, I stood facing the music, only to put together that it's Talledega, and that's the short track races.
Leaving the airport at around 2300, I found the main access road had a chained gate blocking it off. Trapped like a rat! After many sighs and some color commentary, I correctly guessed that there was an escape route through the industrial park that is adjoined to the airport.
On the plus side, I struck up a conversation with the A&P's in the maintenance hangar across from mine and it's already proven to be a mutually beneficial friendship. He needed some help moving a metal shear and I was more than happy to strain and lift. I had ran out of AN4 washers and he let me wander around the hangar collecting strays from the cracks in the floor and from under shelves.
Anyhow, on to the airplane. She's all assembled and I had our resident EAA guru and tech counselor come out to give her a once-over and help with getting the wiring started. Rusty did a little frowning and some smiles, but mostly approving nods. He wants to put a third swag in the center of my cable joins...I'm not too thrilled with that, as I'm afraid that it will goof up the ones on the end. But I remember Robert saying one could do that.
Overall he was satisfied with my workmanship, which is reassuring. He even found a couple of my solutions to be praiseworthy.
Anyhow, we dug into wiring, with me being helper man to his expert. None of it is rocket surgery, but the execution of crimping and connection has to be done right. He's a master and has the right tools for it, so I'd be a fool not to defer to his judgement and skills.
Rusty also has this neat circle cutting tool, so the cowling now has a proper hole in the center. He held it in place and I measured back to see how far the extension needs to go. Rusty says it's kind of a shame to cut nearly two thirds of it away!
Great big milestone today. Our EAA tech advisor and super guru came out to show me how to put together the wiring, as he had worked up the bus bar for the fuse box:
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wire003.jpg
I think it's a work of art.
We run all the wires and flip the master switch to see...
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wire004.jpg
Volt meter shows the juice, and the oil temp and pressure wiggled slightly up from the peg.
A quick bump of the starter button and the selenoid kicked in.
Lots of work to do - I've got to dress up the wiring back from the firewall (it's hot and I wouldn't begin to ask Rusty to stick around for that!) and there's still a zillion friggin' things to do on the rest of the plane.
But here's a scary thought: If I mounted the prop and stuck gas in the tank she'd fly.
Sure, the turnbuckles aren't safety wired, the clevis pins holding them on don't have any cotter pins to hold them in, and the wiring to the panel is a hanging mess, but she could fly.
Bonus plan: one of my other EAA brothers showed up and, having a little time to spare, took me around the patch in his Cessna 150! Just too much fun! He let me move the flying stuff around, which was just a joy. First time every using a yoke.
Of course it's a super fancy airplane with flaps and trim and mixture and even ashtrays on the door, but I've never been a reverse snob.
;)
good looking gauges !
They do look pretty, don't they?
When I cut the panel I put those tabs or ears or whatever down on each end because I though it looked good. When we sat down to plan the wiring, I realized I didn't have a voltmeter! A quick order on Amazon and it came....with me thinking it just might fit in that lower bit I put down. Pure, absolute luck that the space was darned near perfect for fitting it.
All the wiring got cleaned up and zip tied to where it's not in the way of anything today, and along with a bunch of other minor tasks I started marking the cowling for where to drill for the transition piece that goes back to the fuselage.
I was getting pretty hot and fussy - not a good combination for precision work - so I called it a day and went home before I messed anything up.
Use a flush side cutter to cut all the zip tie ends with. I learned the hard way when I used a regular pair of dykes on my RV7. Any time I had to get anywhere there was wiring my hands and arms looked like a wildcat had attacked me. Finally used a razor blade to cut them flush. Don
Because the sides of the airplane are open from panel to firewall, I could both put the wiring well out of the way of everything and get to the zip tie ends easily to cut them. I actually used my little pocket knife for them.
Just to keep the thread alive, Mom came to visit en route from Germany to Washington State and gave her approval of the plane.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/mom_plane.jpg
I was looking at the pictures and it seemed the left lower wing had reverse washout - the roundel shouldn't be showing like that. So yesterday afternoon I went out to the airport to put in the ground wire on the tach and start on the "check every bolt" process (I plan on repeating it a bunch of times).
Turns out that when I assembled the aircraft I didn't put any nuts on the bolts that hold the interplane struts onto the lower wing! After a rueful "well, that ain't good," nuts were installed and tightened after loosening the landing wires. Wires back to proper tension and the wing has the required 1.5 degree washout. Much rejoicing in the hangar - I spent a LOT of time getting the rigging right, and did not want to have to attempt a do-over.
I need to bring some gas up to the airport as well. It dawned on me there is absolutely no reason I shouldn't put a gallon or so in the tank to make sure there's no leaks in the system and fire up the engine briefly. I must say that when I plunged the starter button to the bottom and turned it over it gave me quite a thrill. First gasps for breath from my Bebe.
I also need to purchase a good fire extinguisher for the hangar as well.
Make sure you are allowed to run the engine without the counterweight of a prop.
greetings
I'm afraid to sound really stupid, but what do you mean?
My wording is a bit off, it should have said "flywheel " iso counterweight, an engine needs this too "smoothen the 4-strokes, when converting a car engine the mass of the standard fitted flywheel at the end of the crankshaft is often removed to save on weight because it is replaced by the weight of the prop, so if you want to run the engine without prop maybe ask Valley if that's ok.
Greetings
Ah, now I understand.
The flywheel was definitely left on, and the Diehl case on the back hooks the flywheel to the generator and the starter. Because there's no prop, though, I'll have to limit the amount of time I run it as there's no active air going over the engine to cool it.
Shameless bump - with Mom for a visit, no real work got done on the plane. Planning on heading up tomorrow to work on the cowl and the static/pitot system.
And, as a reward for clicking on this thread...
http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/ima...a-bow-1927.jpg
That is all I needed this Saturday morning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Giger
Quite a number of things irritating me at the hanger!
First, I brought some fuel and a very nice, large fire extinguisher with me. Pell City has a gas station that sells ethanol free High Test, so I put five gallons in a nice metal fuel can and brought it out with me.
The good news - two gallons in and no leaks in any of my fuel connections, and the drain from the sump was clean!
The bad news - my float rod is too long on my cap. I figured out that though I didn't mean to, I put it down into the sump area. Easy fix.
The other bad news is that one of several things is going on with my battery. Either:
A) I never brought it to a full charge, and hopefully the "reconditioning" feature of my charger and time spent getting some fresh electrons will fix it.
B) It's a bad battery (even though it's new).
C) It's just not enough battery. On Valley's advice I grabbed a series seven motorcycle battery, one advertising great cranking amps.
D) I've got a sneak circuit somewhere grounding the battery in the wrong way.
Flip the master, let the pump run some to build up fuel pressure, and press start. The engine turns over twice and then it's click-click-click. My little battery charger would run some and when I got decent voltage I'd try again with the same result.
Tantalizing and frustrating in the extreme is that the engine caught but didn't start - one more turn, dammit!
I'll bring starter cables next time and just jump the damned thing off from my truck if the battery isn't in good enough form. I need to hear the engine run!
I'm struggling with the cowl.
Yesterday I put in one side of the strip that connects the bowl with the sheeting that hooks to the fuselage.
My first attempt was a friggin' disaster! I had started the strip too far down into the bowl, and though I thought I was straight the piece wound up in a sort of angle, coming up to where the far end was about a 35 degree angle to the bowl!
So all the rivets get drilled out and I tried again. First I rolled the transition piece to let it lay inside the curve of the bowl (I didn't do that at first), and tacked the first rivet in on one side, lined it up evenly at one inch depth rather than the two I had before, clamped the end, and put a rivet there to hold it.
Then I started around using the line of rivet holes (about three inches apart) furthest from the edge, keeping the measure marks on the edge. Much, much better.
The upper row (closest to the edge) went in okay, but I still wound up with some minor buckling between some of the rivets. I'm beginning to suspect the bowl itself is flared outward at the edge slightly (and it's a little beat up from the last three years of being moved around). I may just apply a little rubber mallet to them to see if I can get some relief.
The next problem is that I need 14 inches from the edge of the bowl to the fuselage. My sheeting is 12 inches. I've the idea of running a two inch strip between bowl and sheeting (my transition strip is six inches wide) to fill the gap. If I can't make it work I guess I'll just bite the bullet and buy sheeting.
Any thoughts?
Buy the correct width sheeting and find a sheet metal roller and roll it to the right diameter before you start drilling holes. Go over your wiring and make sure you don't have some kind of dead short. Test the battery with a load tester. I had one on my car that would show 13 volts on a meter but when load tested failed in a couple seconds. Let it sit for a couple minutes and would show 13 volts again and fail the load test. Don
Of all the dippy....
So I spent a couple hours checking all the cables three or four times without any love. Finally I just threw up my hands and went to the parts store and bought a new battery, figuring that it was the only thing that could be screwing things up.
Thirty minutes and a hundred bucks later the new series 12 motorcycle battery was installed.
She cranked on the first turn!
A couple issues came up immediately:
First a minor leak at one of the fittings to the oil cooler - easy fix.
Second, none of my gauges - excepting my volt meter - are working. I'll start trouble shooting them some other time, as I'm whipped from bending into the airplane and getting frustrated.
The oil temp and pressure gauges wiggle when the master is first turned on, but I think they're not getting enough juice. We daisy chained the power connector to connector, with the first stop being the volt meter.
I'm going to move the incoming hot line to other gauges to see if that's the issue. Otherwise I'll beg Rusty (who helped run the wiring) to come out and ungefuch the system.
Turns out the ground to my gauges isn't doing its job! Somewhat sorted out, but I need to re-do them.
Ran the tubing for the pitot tube through the lower wing using a wire snake for drains. The hole in the back of my altimeter isn't threaded, though, so I'll have to come up with something to put the static line into it.
One of my fuel fittings was weeping a little, so I tightened it up (it was a little loose!).
And brought home the new battery so I can build a box for it.
Something I never heard you mention was Amp Hour ( AH ) when you talk about your Battery...
Mine... Needs minimum 18ah ....
I look for "SIZE" from that point...
What's the ah on your new battery ?
.
Gotta Fly...
JAM
Not a clue...I'll have to check.
I just went with a battery that Valley Engineering recommended and then went up one.