Flying to A/V

[robert l]

My plan; Fly from South Carolina to Oshkosh and into Airventure. I feel comfortable making the almost 1000 mi. trip alone in my Cessna 150, and as I explained to my wife, it's just a bunch of short cross country trips ! I may follow a couple of friends to the 150/152 flyin in Iowa first and then pick up my 2nd and 3rd eyes over in Watertown, Wi. or some other uncontroled field. My 2nd and 3rd eyes consist of a good friend who's a CFI, instrument and all that good stuff. I have never flown into Airventure before so I know I'm going to need some help, and this is what I think may be the case. I think, since A/V wasn't held last year, there will be a bumper crop of people flying in this year and it may be busier than ever and one eye just ain't gonna cut it !!! I would like to have opinions from the group, if y'all don't mind, and I know you can't count on opinions, but at least I can take them under consideration and plan accordingly. Any comments, recomendations and smart remarks are all welcome.
Bob

[Airmutt]

Hey Bob, just my two cents....
Watch the online videos of the VFR approaches. Yes there have been some changes but it gives you good views of the various landmarks and what to,expect. Know what they look like, basically have the approach committed to memory to fly heads up.

Before you head out, take your 150 and get some time flying at a congested airfield preferably one with a tower. Brush up on flying a tight pattern and work on your “radio ear”. Also might want to brush up on crosswind landings. Winds tend to be much stiffer in the Midwest than down in the Piedmont.

An extra set of eyes, preferably a pilot, is money in the bank. Enjoy the trip!

[Bill Berson]

Might want to get in on Friday. Light traffic.

[Auburntsts]

My advice:
1. Read, re-read, and thoroughly understand the NOTAM.
2. Take the advice above and watch the YouTube arrival videos.
3. Practice spot landings, maintaining airspeed (90 kts), heading, and altitude (1000ft AGL)—IOW basic airmanship.
4. If arrival holding is in progress, think about landing near-by and waiting until traffic conditions improve.
5. Resist the urge to get into OSH at all costs(get-there-itis). The show will still be there if you have to take some extra time to arrive. This applies Enroute too— better to spend the night someplace then to push ahead when prudence would dictate otherwise.
6. Have fun!

[robert l]

Great advice for sure guys, I have been watching the arrival videos on youtube and I have the, "New Notam" downloaded. I learned a long time ago, traveling for work, many times across the country, not to get in a hurry, I get there when I get there. Plus, I'm retired, no rush on my part. My philosophy is, and has been for years, Life in the slow lane! Looking forward to more suggestions.
Bob

[steve]

Remember the slow lane moves along at 90 kts at 1800 msl. Still hoping for a "low 'n slow" arrival procedure someday.
Don't forget to register for the upcoming EAA vid on June 23. It covers the arrival changes for 2021.

[FlyingRon]

Hi, from NC. I've flown into Oshkosh since 1993 (I missed only a few years when my plane was down for restoration). The advice given here is good. The key is to read the NOTAM over and over again until you are convinced you understand it cold. Keep your head on a swivel as you approach Ripon. Hold your altitude (1000 AGL) and speed (90 Knots). Watch out for other people doing stupid things. Before you go, practice these things and making approaches to runways at the numbers, and at several arbitrary points (they will often ask you to keep it in the air to a colored dot which keeps you at a higher speed spacing you out from the guy coming in behind you).

Drop by the Vintage flight line ops building (across from the Hangar Cafe) and say Hi once you're there.

[Mayhemxpc]

Plus one to all of the above. I would add another suggestion. If you have access to a decent desktop flight sim program such as X-Plane or MSFS, AFTER you review the You Tube videos, put the NOTAM in front of you and fly the Fisk arrival, including the Green Lake hold. The MSFS 2020 graphics are excellent and will give you a good appreciation of what look for. The X-plane graphics of OSH, however, are better/more up to date.

[Aviatrexx]

All good suggestions, but I'd perform a Kobayashi Maru on the problem, myself.

There are several factors that make this year's Fisk arrival more challenging than normal: heavier than normal traffic (see SnF21 attendance record), lower than normal annual flight times, changes in the arrival itself, and no one flying the arrival will have done it in two years. Throw in less-than-perfect weather or an ATC/Ground hiccup, and this is surely not the year to attempt it for the first time. The suggestion to arrive on Friday would normally be reasonable, but Ron and I see those arrivals, and every year "early" comes earlier in the week. You can bet that a lot of folks are already planning to arrive "early".

So when faced with a no-win scenario, change the rules. The NOTAM goes into effect at noon (CDT) on Thursday. If you get there before it goes into effect, you are now dealing with a normal Class D airport: listen to ATIS, report in when it says to, do what the controller says (usually, "Report 3-mile final runway 36"), land on whatever dot suits you, and follow the flag-folks to your tie-down/campsite. You'll arrive considerably less stressed and (if your C150 was manufactured before 1971) you'll probably have an excellent view of all the stressed-out Fisk approach landings, and not have to walk so far. In 2019, there were Friday arrivals that could barely see the runway.

Unless you're really into big noisy jets, watching the show come together is far more interesting and relaxing than after the hoards descend. But if you get bored, do as Ron suggested and drop by Vintage Ops. There's always something going on there.

[robert l]

You'll arrive considerably less stressed and (if your C150 was manufactured before 1971) you'll probably have an excellent view of all the stressed-out Fisk approach landings, and not have to walk so far.
1966 f model Aviatrexx, and like I said earlier, life in the slow lane ! Our plans aren't set in stone so we will have options. My buddy is thinking about flying the Cub but that's about a 2 1/2 or 3 day trip, both ways, don't know if he can stand that, and I would be following him in to land. Not so sure about that either. I got to go to SNF this year with a couple of friends in his 182 and we had to hold for about 40 minutes, we were just about to divert for fuel when we got the go ahead to come on in. Early arrival is ok with me, although, I would like to get the, I flew into Airventure t-shirt ! lol. We still have a ways to go so I'm not committing to any one scenario. In the mean time, I'm just flying as often as I can and keeping it real. Hope to some of y'all there.
Bob

[Bill Berson]

Early in the morning is an option. I think it opens at 8 am.

[Auburntsts]

Early in the morning is an option. I think it opens at 8 am.

Per the NOTAM, the airfield opens for arrivals at 7AM CDT and closes at 8PM CDT.

[FlyingRon]

Per the NOTAM, the airfield opens for arrivals at 7AM CDT and closes at 8PM CDT.
Yep, but be prepared for it not to be. Mornings aren't as much of a problem, but things can get dicey either because of weather, some incident on the runway, traffic saturation on the ground, the airshow, excessive amounts of departures (they usually won't turn on arrivals after the airshow until people get out). Also, there are things that can bollix up departures so don't cut it short before the airshow if you need to depart, sometimes we lose the ability to taxi guys out from vintage before the actual show starts.

[Pnancoz]

After you pick up your friend, when you are at your last stop before OSH, have a detailed briefing. Go through the NOTAM. Make sure you each understand your expectations (who is going to be flying, where each of you is going to look for traffic, changing frequencies, etc...). I put tabs on my copy of the NOTAM so that I can find each page quickly. Another suggestion is to not arrive at OSH low on fuel should you need to hold. I pick my last stop to be under an hour from OSH so that my tanks will be near full when I start the arrival.

In 2018 I arrived on Saturday before the show started in late afternoon during a brief period of VFR. In 2019 I arrived on Friday evening before the massive storms arrived.

[Inspector Fenwick]

One thing you do NOT want on your mind is a concern for fuel. I arrive at Ripon with two hours of fuel, period, and one year that was not enough and I ended up at a holiday inn in Madison, only about 30 minutes away. Madison is an "easy in and easy out" fuel stop, although it, too, will be busy and crowded. They are very nice at Wisconsin Aviation.

Also, and this works for me, while I do have the NOTAM bound up and looking pretty nearby, I have taken several bits of info and printed out on an index card that is clipped to my clipboard. I have these bullet points IN ORDER as they will be needed. I.E. Arrival ATIS freq, Fisk Approach freq, the identifiers for the four transition points, Tower North freq, and Tower South freq. I also have alternated location info for Appleton and FLD. When Fisk hands me off, that is when I find out if I am lucky and get the 18/36 (Twr South) and I will have that freq right in front of me. Gives me time to turn to that page of the NOTAM to see where I have colored in the DOTS, and life is good.

Be careful. Turning off your depiction of other aircraft traffic on whatever display you might be using might ease your pucker factor.

I do have a concern about the transition points and I hope I am wrong. It appears that they have merely extended the Ripon to Fisk and added 30 plus miles to it. I am hoping that since 2019, a bunch of my fellow aviators have learned how to fly in trail because they have heretofore had a LOT of difficulty doing that over those railroad tracks. FISK is the decision point and my hope is that sometime they will have TWO "fisks". I am sure this has been well thought out and my fingers are crossed.

[Mayhemxpc]

I have taken several bits of info and printed out on an index card that is clipped to my clipboard. I have these bullet points IN ORDER as they will be needed. I.E. Arrival ATIS freq, Fisk Approach freq, the identifiers for the four transition points, Tower North freq, and Tower South freq. I also have alternated location info for Appleton and FLD. When Fisk hands me off, that is when I find out if I am lucky and get the 18/36 (Twr South) and I will have that freq right in front of me. Gives me time to turn to that page of the NOTAM to see where I have colored in the DOTS, and life is good.



Great tip!

[robert l]

If all goes well, we will probably leave KCDN, Camden, S.C. early on the morning of July 25, and depending on wind and weather, probably stop somewhere wihin an hr. of Oshkosh for the night, camping or motel, don't know yet. Just wondering if any other small planes will be passing along the same or similar route. I know a couple of C 150s that will be leaving the first of the week headed for Iowa.
Bob

[mcdewey]

Practice your right pattern turns, downwind to base and base to final. The approach into Runway 27 comes around the north. The controllers will change your directions suddenly ("Turn base now!, turn final now!") and they will switch dots too. I know we pilots mostly fly left patterns so be ready for some "exciting" right pattern work into an unfamiliar airport.

[robert l]

Practice your right pattern turns, downwind to base and base to final. The approach into Runway 27 comes around the north. The controllers will change your directions suddenly ("Turn base now!, turn final now!") and they will switch dots too. I know we pilots mostly fly left patterns so be ready for some "exciting" right pattern work into an unfamiliar airport.

There is a small airport with a right pattern about 15 mi. from where my plane is based, I've been there a few times and will use it more. Thanks for the info.
Bob

[MEdwards]

Practice your right pattern turns…That’s a very good suggestion, and one you don’t see very often.

[Wickbuilder]

The right turn to 27 is a continuous decent to land from 500'. IFR traffic is on 5 mile final over the lake. Several pilots tend to overshoot and have to turn tighter to get lined up. Saw a textbook landing stall a few years back. Just keep your nose down, speed above stall, and fly to center line. We all strive to hit the dot, most do not. You will be instructed to turn into the grass as soon as possible. It is very nice and not like your normal airport. Do not try for a taxiway unless directed to do so. There are others behind you that depend on this. (assuming it is not another sloshkosh) Taxi via ground directions with you sign posted. Get ready for the most fun you will have. And definitely get the shirt.
ROCK YOUR WINGS!

[robert l]

Get ready for the most fun you will have. And definitely get the shirt.
ROCK YOUR WINGS!

First time flying in but not our first time at A/V, and I have watched and listened in on arrivals while at A/V, and hours of arrivals and departures on Youtube. Some are very intense, my co-pilot and friend is a CFI and even when he's not instructing me, he instructing me. lol. We have been flying together for years and make a good team. Thanks for input.
Bob

[FlyingRon]

I was fortunate that the first time I flew into FLD but while I was at the show, Bertorelli got me a tour of both the tower and Fisk so I got to see the ops from the ATC end. Next year, I flew in on the arrival.

[Mayhemxpc]

Last time I posted on this I recommended flying the approach on a desktop flight simulator for practice. PilotEdge, working with NATCA, announced that they will have an updated system to what they offered for SimVenture last year. You will be able to fly the approach, with live, with other participating aircraft, and talking to (or listening to) the same controllers as will work OSH and the arrivals during AirVenture. Will work with MS FS X, MSFS 2020, and X-Plane. They say that they will use the new NOTAM, including the new entry/reporting points. It will be available July 14, 16, 17, and 18
https://www.pilotedge.net/pages/simventure

[robert l]

Well, a lot has changed since I started this thread, different airplane, different plan for the trip and so on. The last glitch is, I'm sick, my wife came down with a cold a week ago and eventhough we were careful, now I've got it. Our last A/V plan was to leave S.C. Sunday morning, the 25th, around 6 or 6:30 am in a friends 172 and he decided to go with us. Now that I'm sick, I'm not going to expose them to whatever I've got, sore throat, stuffy nose, coughing, etc. Could be just a summer cold, or the flu, I don't know but it's not like when I had Covid back in January, but I'll make an appoiment with my Dr. for Monday, she's at the hospital of Fridays so I can't see her today. If by some miracle this passes, and I don't see that happening, Saturday is my go or no go drop dead date, since Sunday morning is wheels up. I'll give my buddy his wrist band and I guess I'll save mine as a souvenir, a $122.00 souvenir. The best laid plans ! Oh well !
Bob

[mcdewey]

I’m at the show. You can always do what one guy did. Get lost “Just crossed highway 41, heading 270 east of the field” anyhow, the controller fond him by having him fly directly over the field. Was heading 90. Controller had him turn left to move out then got him onto base and finally landed. Obviously had never seen the NOTAM. It was a tail dragger RV and backfired like crazy when he pulled the power. Everyone was watching him.

Lesson learned, do what you want! /s

[robert l]

It's official, my cold has put the Kibosh on our A/V trip this year, guess I'll have to get my hat and tee shirt on line. Well, I do have a couple of unused tickets and wrist bands as souvenirs, dang, I could buy several tee shirts and hats for that price !
Bob