How to transport auto-gas to airport?

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

I had not really considered hauling high-octane, auto-gas to the airport because the airplane 15 gallon tank meant easily three or more, 5 gallon containers. Then there is the contamination risks from transporting fuel and empty containers all over the place with potential spillage. Worse, to carry these cans in the trunk and/or in the hatchback, well I've smelled enough gas not to want to repeat that experiment. Then someone suggested using a modified trailer, like the one I used to carry my plane to Huntsville:

What sort of 'safety' requirements are needed to transport gasoline on a private trailer?
How do FOBs typically handle this? (I would buy it from the FBO if they offered it.)
Are there vehicle insurance policy requirements?
How are gas vs. aviation taxes handled?
I was resigned to having to use 100LL but if no-lead, high octane, gas can be used, I might go ahead and plan for an O{2} sensor. But I was not going to use an O{2} sensor if I had to use 100LL since it would 'foul' pretty quickly.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

[rosiejerryrosie]

Best to check with your local (state) transportation folks as the requirements in each state may vary. Here in PA for instance, to transport more then 50 gallons, a special permit is required.

[Dana]

Re the O2 sensor, sooner or later you'll be on a cross country and will fill up with 100LL... then what?

[rwanttaja]

Hi,

I had not really considered hauling high-octane, auto-gas to the airport because the airplane 15 gallon tank meant easily three or more, 5 gallon containers.

Did you mean "15 gallon TANK," or "TANKS"? If singular, you'll never need to carry more than 15 gallons. If you operate with normal reserves, 10 gallons will probably be sufficient, normally.

My Fly Baby has a 15-gallon tank, and I use two 2.5-gallon cans. I typically just fly an hour, so five gallons is usually sufficient. The two small cans fit nicely into one of those plastic "milk crates" they sell at department stores, and that keeps them from falling over in the trunk of my car when I transport them. Two milk crates would give you ten gallons, and you'd never have to lift more than ~16 pounds. I put a large leaf bag into the milk crate as a liner in case there's spilled gas on the outside of the cans.

Typically, I keep the cans and crate at the airport and drive to the gas station when I need to. If I'm planning a longer trip, I'll take the cans home with me after the previous flight and get gas on the way to the airport. When I get back, I'll load that five gallons, then go get some more. Or I'll just top off with 100LL on my next trip out.

A couple of things to keep in mind: Use a "Mr Funnel" or similar filtration system. Don't store gas in your hangar (usually against the airport rules). Test each load for ethanol. And, if you're running a Lycoming or Continental, run a load of 100LL through every ~4th fill so the engine gets its occasional dose of lead.

Ron Wanttaja

[malexander]

Hey Bob,
I posted some more stuff on your aircraft carrier thread.

Marshall Alexander

[Bugs66]

Here is what I put together from ex 18 wheeler 100 gal tank and Harbor Freight trailer. 119 gal and under is legal and not considered hazmat in my area. This self contained fueler paid for itself after 3 fillups or so. I plan to use for many years. And yes, it has a static ground line.

1279

[steveinindy]

What sort of 'safety' requirements are needed to transport gasoline on a private trailer?

If you're not going for the trailer idea that was previously suggested, which I think is really awesome, I would highly suggest you look for a heavy duty metal gas can with a self-closing (such as a spring loaded) lid. My father had a steel one he used for hauling gas for our riding lawnmower. It was about 10 or 15 gallons and something like that would be just about perfect for what you're talking about. It would stand up a lot better if your vehicle were to be rear-ended while on the way to the airport. When I was about 10 or so, my dad actually backed over the can which I left sitting behind his truck. Didn't even dent it nor spill a drop.

[Bill Berson]

You can pump fuel from the car fuel tank with a small electric automotive fuel pump and a hose. I haven't tried this, but have seen this done.
I use two 2.5 gallon gas cans, like Ron said.

[bwilson4web]

This is excellent and addresses a future, not current, requirement. Of course there will be some 'negotiation' with the FBO but that is at least a year away.

Edison once said words to the effect that 99% of all ideas or experiments don't work. So he was asked how was he so successful as an inventer, he said 'Have lots of ideas.' A forum like this is a reasonable place to find potentially useful ideas so instead of having to figure everything out from scratch, borrow inspiration and build to suit your requirements. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

[Joe Delene]

I'd just mix in whatever you can with your visits to the airport, 15-20 gallons at a time with 5-6 gal containers. You should really transport in a pickup or something with 'open air'. If you must used an enclosed vehicle I'd leave the windows down for the short trip to the airport. Strong fumes in an enclosed area can lead to disaster. I have an inexpensive ethanol tester, to double check the station.

[steveinindy]

You can pump fuel from the car fuel tank with a small electric automotive fuel pump and a hose. I haven't tried this, but have seen this done.

I'd personally discourage that. I mean, why add another potential source of fuel contamination (organic, ethanol, metallic, etc) if you can avoid it?

[Frank Giger]

The guy that owns the CTLS I trained in has a drum that holds about 30 gallons (it's less than a 50 gallon drum) with a setup that puts air in the barrel to pressurize it for the hose and dispensing handle that comes out of it.

The whole thing is on a hand truck dolly setup - so it's easy to move around.

Didn't ask how he gets it up on the truck when it's full at the gas station!

[malexander]

The only problem with pressurizing a drum is that a drum isn't designed for pressure at all. That's why Van's recommends the balon for pressure testing the fuel tanks for leaks.

Marshall Alexander

[Mike M]

You can pump fuel from the car fuel tank with a small electric automotive fuel pump and a hose.

decades ago i set up a t-fitting in my car's fuel hose with an outboard motor fuel connector on the leg of the "t". hooked up detachable hose, ran end into fuel tank on plane, turned on ignition switch on car so car's electric pump would run, and preflighted plane. knowing fuel flow rate, i'd monitor time and turn off ignition before the car tank ran dry or the plane tank overflowed. outboard fittings had spring-loaded seals, and i put a cap on outlet end of the hose so it didn't get dirt inside or let stink out in the trunk. i couldn't think of a cheaper way to do it.

[Frank Giger]

Found a link to the portable fueling system he uses (or one very much like it - I think his has a larger capacity):

http://www.portablefuelsystems.com/

[Wilfred]

Look up the Flo Fast system...I use two 7.5-gal tanks and the hand cranked pump to deliver fuel to the plane with no drips or spills...works really well.

[Mike M]

The only problem with pressurizing a drum is that a drum isn't designed for pressure at all. That's why Van's recommends the balon for pressure testing the fuel tanks for leaks.

Marshall Alexander

"Transferring liquids by means of air pressure on the container or portable tanks is prohibited. This type of transfer may result in an overpressure that could exceed what the container or tank is designed to withstand. In addition, a flammable atmosphere could be created within the container or tank. This atmosphere would be particularly sensitive to ignition because of the increased pressure. Please remember that this is a general overview of flammable and combustible liquids. For more information, refer to 29 CFR 1910.106 as well as NFPA 30 Flammable and Combustible Liquids Code."

http://www.workplacegroup.net/articles/article-flammable-liquids.htm

[Mike M]

Found a link to the portable fueling system he uses (or one very much like it - I think his has a larger capacity):

http://www.portablefuelsystems.com/

maybe this type?

http://www.fuelchief.com/safefuelhandlingguide.html

[Mike M]

if you decide to save a nickle by using the harbor freight rotary pump, think twice. mine works on oil but leaks gasoline.

[patmike]

take your pick
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_fuel-transfer-lubrication+fuel-caddies

[malexander]

"Transferring liquids by means of air pressure on the container or portable tanks is prohibited. This type of transfer may result in an overpressure that could exceed what the container or tank is designed to withstand. In addition, a flammable atmosphere could be created within the container or tank. This atmosphere would be particularly sensitive to ignition because of the increased pressure. Please remember that this is a general overview of flammable and combustible liquids. For more information, refer to 29 CFR 1910.106 as well as NFPA 30 Flammable and Combustible Liquids Code."

http://www.workplacegroup.net/articles/article-flammable-liquids.htm


This is an OK site but the average homebuilder/joe doesn't know about, or in some cases care about "legalities". The main point I was trying to point out is the drum isn't designed for pressure. What I'm actually trying to get across is PSI, the ends will most likely blow out before the side will rupture.

Marshall Alexander

[Frank Giger]

On OSHA regs - they don't apply to hangars, unless they are part and parcel to an active business (like the mechanic's hangar, where it is a place of business).

Rental properties, such as hangars at an airfield, aren't covered by OSHA rules.

[rwanttaja]

Certainly true, but keep in mind that hangar leases may have their own restriction (can't store gas in the hangar) and that city fire codes sometimes bring in another factor (can't dispense gas in an enclosed structure like a hangar).

[wildhorsesracing]

We regularly transport 55 gallon drums of race fuel and use this pump to dispense it at the track:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_31616_31616

You can transport a sealed 55 gallon drum in an enclosed trailer or open trailer. Make sure the drum is sealed except for the one or two openings for filling/dispensing. My plane only holds 27 gallons so a smaller 30 gallon drum would be more than enough.

[Frank Giger]

Certainly true, but keep in mind that hangar leases may have their own restriction (can't store gas in the hangar) and that city fire codes sometimes bring in another factor (can't dispense gas in an enclosed structure like a hangar).

Yep. I just didn't want anyone to think that it was illegal to use pressurized dispensing systems based on an OSHA rule; however, nobody ever said there is a one to one corrolation between legal and smart.

I'll probably throw some five gallon jugs of gas in the back of the truck and fill up my plane from them when I go out to the field.

[Eric Witherspoon]

Haven't seen any reply yet w/r/t taxes. One club I flew with had quite a large fuel storage trailer. Looked like maybe it was military surplus or something. Anyway, it was big enough to have a local gas distributor stop by with their truck to fill it. The club would send in whatever paperwork the state required to be refunded the tax, since the fuel was not used on the road. This was in Florida in the 1980's. So I have no idea what's possible now, but tax refunds at least used to be possible. Might be more of a hassle than it's worth for many 15-20 gallon fill ups, unless you can group receipts over time and apply all at once...

[Michael James]

I have been using 89-91 octane fuel for years. I just get good 5 gallon cans that don't leak and transport them in the trunk. It helps that the gas station is a couple blocks from the airport. I made a rolling platform that gets me up high on the wing so fueling is easy.

[MickYoumans]

I got four of the red plastic 5 gallon gas containers from Wal*Mart. It has worked just fine for me. Inexpensive and easy to handle. Fortunately I have a low wing plane that is very easy to refuel.

[Mike M]

This is an OK site but the average homebuilder/joe doesn't know about, or in some cases care about "legalities". The main point I was trying to point out is the drum isn't designed for pressure. What I'm actually trying to get across is PSI, the ends will most likely blow out before the side will rupture.

Marshall Alexander

I accept your point about a container not designed to contain pressure. and your point about the average homebuilder/joe not caring about legalities - heck, just check other threads to prove that point. but go back and read that quoted article. "a flammable atmosphere could be created within the container or tank. This atmosphere would be particularly sensitive to ignition because of the increased pressure." get it? when the tank is full of very rich fuel vapor, it's not so easy to ignite. when air is pumped in, at some point the perfect explosive mixture may be reached. probably will be reached. i'm not concerned about mr avg-joe breaking OSHA codes, or even the dastardly airport rules. i'm concerned about the dumb sob blowing himself and his airplane and maybe his hangar up and breaking somebody else's stuff - like mine. most safety rules are written in blood. read them to avoid being a copycat. make NEW mistakes.

[malexander]

I accept your point about a container not designed to contain pressure. and your point about the average homebuilder/joe not caring about legalities - heck, just check other threads to prove that point. but go back and read that quoted article. "a flammable atmosphere could be created within the container or tank. This atmosphere would be particularly sensitive to ignition because of the increased pressure." get it? when the tank is full of very rich fuel vapor, it's not so easy to ignite. when air is pumped in, at some point the perfect explosive mixture may be reached. probably will be reached. i'm not concerned about mr avg-joe breaking OSHA codes, or even the dastardly airport rules. i'm concerned about the dumb sob blowing himself and his airplane and maybe his hangar up and breaking somebody else's stuff - like mine. most safety rules are written in blood. read them to avoid being a copycat. make NEW mistakes.



Can't disagree with that AT ALL. But I really think the ends would probably blow out, or pucker a bit, before an explosion. Anyone with 1/2 a brain would be watching and see something isn't "quite right" and hit the "E-stop" immediately.

Marshall Alexander

[Dana]

I accept your point about a container not designed to contain pressure. and your point about the average homebuilder/joe not caring about legalities - heck, just check other threads to prove that point. but go back and read that quoted article. "a flammable atmosphere could be created within the container or tank. This atmosphere would be particularly sensitive to ignition because of the increased pressure." get it? when the tank is full of very rich fuel vapor, it's not so easy to ignite. when air is pumped in, at some point the perfect explosive mixture may be reached. probably will be reached...

I did some calculations and research on this. I forget the exact numbers, but a gas tank in the sunlight can get up around 5 psi internal pressure, which is about what the common portable gas cans are required to withstand. The dangerous explosive mixture isn't reached until a considerably higher pressure.

I bring my gas to the airport in the common red 5 gallon plastic container, and I have a rig using a foot pump (made to fill air mattresses) to pressurize the container. The can sits on the ground, and I can easily pump the gas several feet up to the tank in my Kolb. Sure beats holding the can over my head.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v486/flyparafan/Kolb/fuel%20filler/?action=view&current=Dsc01919.jpg

[Mike M]

ok, we've pretty much decided that no matter what the laws require or the safety rules indicate, we're all going to keep on doing what we've been doing because it works for us so far and we're convinced neither man-made nor scientific laws apply to us anyway.

now, back to the original questions:

Q. What sort of 'safety' requirements are needed to transport gasoline on a private trailer? A. check OSHA and your state DOT requirements.

Q. How do FBOs typically handle this? (I would buy it from the FBO if they offered it.)
A. most do not. others might add it to their product offerings if there is enough demand. insurance requirements and fuel supplier dictates sometimes govern their actions. if you bring it up with them, they may try to charge a flowage fee for bringing your own fuel onto the airport. many aircraft operators have successfully fought flow fees if the FBOs on the field don't offer the fuel being "imported".

Q. Are there vehicle insurance policy requirements?
A. not by my insurance carrier. read your policy. if it says nothing about it, you have no requirements. if you call your company and ask, you may get a revised policy. may not. but your rate won't go down if you call, i'm betting.

Q. How are gas vs. aviation taxes handled?
A. contact your state tax agency. in my moves from state to state, some rebate the difference between road tax and aviation tax and send the aviation tax to the right pot. some rebate the entire amount, including county option taxes, and don't forward the aviation tax to the feds. some don't have a clue what the heck you're talking about. as to the federal aviation fuel tax, check IRS form 720. if your state doesn't forward the info to the feds, you may be required to submit it with your aviation fuel excise tax payment.

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i720/ch01.html

as an aside, i've known folks who shall remain nameless who said they kept a data plate registered so they could get the state fuel tax rebate on the gas they're actually burning in their cars, trucks, or campers, and they never file form 720. your morals may vary.

[Frank Giger]

ok, we've pretty much decided that no matter what the laws require or the safety rules indicate, we're all going to keep on doing what we've been doing because it works for us so far and we're convinced neither man-made nor scientific laws apply to us anyway.

Not quite correct.

The question is one of "what is the most prudent" method of transporting and dispensing fuel outside of using the underground tank and commercial dispensing from the FBO.

Commercially available systems that apply pressure to a vessel containing fuel for dispensing exist; in the litigation happy environment we live in they've got to be reasonably safe if the operating instructions are used or they wouldn't be on the market. But one does have to follow the instructions on PSI during filling and relieving the pressure afterwards.



IIRC, the gas used is Nitrogen, and there's a check valve to prevent overpressurization for the rating of the container.

I will concur wholeheartedly that one should not attempt to fabricate such a system themselves.



Indeed, the discussion has been about safety first; and one towards caution most of us don't use in our homes.

My neighbor asked me what the metal box in the backyard was for and was suprised that I keep my three gallon plastic gas can that I use for my lawn mower in it. He laughed outright - he's a fireman and kept his stuck in a corner of his garage like 99% of everybody, potentially filling it full of fumes.

I'll most likely fill my aircraft using 5 gallon jugs and a siphon hose (single 12 gallon tank), and remove the gas can from the hangar otherwise.

[Bill Berson]

Using 5 or 2.5 gallon plastic jugs is easy enough. Even for a high wing C-172, I would put my thumb on the nozzle and set it into the fuel tank and leave the jug laying on the wing as it empties. No need to hold it up.
I just don't like hauling fuel inside my car, even in the trunk because it has air vents to the cabin. A small trailer is preferred.

I have seen a Piper Cherokee with a burnt wing, fueling from a plastic jug can start a fire in some conditions.
Better to stand back and watch while holding a small fire extinguisher, if possible.

[Garth Elliot]

The man who rents sapce to me in his hangar, modified his plastic gas cans....there is a metal flop tube in the can which is always in the gasoline....and then he used a ground cable that clips onto the external portion of the fitting to which the flop tube is connected....this is to keep the can grounded at all times when refueling.
The local airports here are paranoid about lawyers and so they will not let anyone put fuel in a portable gas can.
A company named Vulcan Industrial Packaging used to provide "ExploSafe" gas cans....metal csns....with a metal tinsel filling the interior......they could not explode. You could fill them with fuel and then put red hot bullets through them and they wouldn't explode.
I still have several and I use them. Thie potential problem is one of contamination over a long period of use. Therefore a safety gas funnel is useful.

[Mychael]

What I used to do when I wanted mogas for my Luscombe. I had a sort of home made/custom made trailor with high sides and no gate. It would comfortabley fit 2x44gallon (200 litre) drums diagonally across. I had found a place that would make new drums specifically for carrying fuel.
I fitted the two (empty) drums into the trailor, made blocks/spacers so they were secure and then ratchet strapped it all together.

Went to the local garage/service station to fill them up. With me I carried 4x heavy duty battery jumper leads. I earthed the drums to the trailor and the fuel pump and the trailor to the fuel pump at the nozzle. Same as if you were re-fuelling your aircraft at an aerodrome. I did not worry about earthing my car as I reasoned that by being conected to the trailor by tow point and tail light leads it was already in the circuit.

At the airfield I'd pull the aircraft up to the trailor, the drums stayed on the trailor the entire time. Used the same jumper leads to earth only this time to the aircraft and for pumping I'd invested in a proper rocker arm type pump with clear glass filter and water trap/drain plug and replaceable line filter.

I did this for quite some time until I'd moved to another airfield where my hanger was only about 100ft away from the fuel bowser and I could pull the aircraft over with needing to start. Convienience then outweighed cost and I stopped using mogas and just refuels with 100LL. Oh and when using the drums always used a Mr.Funnel for added protection.

[Bob Dingley]

decades ago i set up a t-fitting in my car's fuel hose with an outboard motor fuel connector on the leg of the "t". hooked up detachable hose, ran end into fuel tank on plane, turned on ignition switch on car so car's electric pump would run, and preflighted plane. knowing fuel flow rate, i'd monitor time and turn off ignition before the car tank ran dry or the plane tank overflowed. outboard fittings had spring-loaded seals, and i put a cap on outlet end of the hose so it didn't get dirt inside or let stink out in the trunk. i couldn't think of a cheaper way to do it.
I just got my every other month copy of Farm Show magazine and saw an article for a system to tap a pickup's fuel tank. The purpose is to provide a filtered, no fuss refueling system for small engines. The inventor states a one gallon/min flow rate. It has a five foot hose and nozzle at the rear of the tuck bed. Could be extended.
The Fuel-Tool PT-500 will be available June, 2013 for $299. The company has been offering a motorcycle to motorcycle buddy fuel transfer system. www.fueltool.com The link to the truck system doesn't work yet. Contact:
Mike McAvey
269 Bellair Rd Ridgewood, NJ 07450
201.956.2350
I recall lots of interest in fuel handling at the time and it seemed to die off unresolved. I'm just throwing this out if it will help. I don't have a need for this at the moment. If I did, I would get components from Harbor Freight, hook it up and have a full 5 gallon can handy if I should totaly drain my Dakota's 21 gal tank accidently. BTW, I use gas found on pure-gas.org to find no ethanol gas.

[bwilson4web]

I was at "Tractor Supply" yesterday and saw some very nice fuel systems. I don't remember the amount they carried but that is probably the approach I'll use.

The other option, someone mentioned an 'additive' for 100LL that reduced or mitigated the lead deposits. However, I am very skeptical about additive claims.

Bob Wilson

[Wilfred]

I use Fast Flo containers, 7.5-gallon units, with a hand rotary pump to bring fuel from an auto gas station to the plane.The pump moves 5-gallons a minute and is neat and fast. I had some leak problems at the handle but the company up-graded my pump to a commercial quality unit with a major price discount when we couldn't cure the leak. A relatively inexpensive unit that works well. They are sold by many auto racing and boating suppliers.

[pacerpilot]

You can pump fuel from the car fuel tank with a small electric automotive fuel pump and a hose. I haven't tried this, but have seen this done.
I use two 2.5 gallon gas cans, like Ron said.

Or...you could pump gas from someone elses car with a small electric pump and a hose:D!

[pacerpilot]

Bob, regular "red plastic" gas jugs are safe and just fine for transporting gas. Keep them in a cool shady spot after you fuel up. Your problem is that you haven't got the right kind of vehicle. You need a truck-with an open bed. Other than that a filter funnel to make sure you're not dumping dirt in your tank and you're good to go.

[WLIU]

The additive is Alcor TCP. Sold lots of places. Lots of pilots have used it successfully to reduce plug fouling and valve deposits. Seems to really work unlike many things that people put into their avgas. Google will find the info for you.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Fred Stadler]

Bob, regular "red plastic" gas jugs are safe and just fine for transporting gas. Keep them in a cool shady spot after you fuel up. Your problem is that you haven't got the right kind of vehicle. You need a truck-with an open bed. Other than that a filter funnel to make sure you're not dumping dirt in your tank and you're good to go.

Don't be too casual with red plastic gas jugs! A very dear friend of mine who was an EAA Chapter 34 member suffered severe burns while fueling his Luscombe using large, red, plastic gas jugs which had been transported in the bed of his pickup truck. Static build up caused a spark which ignited the gas, burning his upper body. He lived a couple more, very painful years before succumbing to his injuries.

Metal cans are somewhat less apt to collect static electricity, but any container of gasoline must be treated with great care.

[raytoews]

I got a 300 gal tank, installed it in my drafty hanger and get the local fuel suppler to fll it for me.

Works fine in farm country.

[Frank Giger]

Don't be too casual with red plastic gas jugs! A very dear friend of mine who was an EAA Chapter 34 member suffered severe burns while fueling his Luscombe using large, red, plastic gas jugs which had been transported in the bed of his pickup truck. Static build up caused a spark which ignited the gas, burning his upper body. He lived a couple more, very painful years before succumbing to his injuries.

Metal cans are somewhat less apt to collect static electricity, but any container of gasoline must be treated with great care.

Yep, one must ground every gas can before pouring. Just setting the jug on the ground (not truck bed to plane/lawn mower/whatever) is enough to discharge them.

[pacerpilot]

The additive is Alcor TCP. Sold lots of places. Lots of pilots have used it successfully to reduce plug fouling and valve deposits. Seems to really work unlike many things that people put into their avgas. Google will find the info for you.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

I run Alcor TCP in my Corvair powered Junior Ace. It seem to work well. I haven't fouled a plug since adding it to my fuel and I'm getting a little better fuel burn.

[pacerpilot]

Yep, one must ground every gas can before pouring. Just setting the jug on the ground (not truck bed to plane/lawn mower/whatever) is enough to discharge them.

I figured safe gas handling was a given. Apparently not.

[Frank Giger]

Uh, nearly 50 replies to this thread about how to carry gasoline to an airport and you really wondered about that?

[Frank Giger]

In the world of aviation all sorts of common sense stuff is debated until there's a regulation to cover it.

Then the regulation is hotly debated.

[seeekandstroy]

You could just buy a fuel truck and use that... :P