Fly in "Protest"

[cdlwingnut]

I am sure all of the aviation community is deeply disturbed by the death of (insert name here) in (insert name of place her) and therefore we should hold a huge fly in protest at OSH in July to air our grievances (literally). This big Air. um "protest" will be completely peaceful, including the many war birds and modern military aircraft that I am sure will fly in to join us.

[saber25]

Hey Wing Nut,on another forum I read pilots condoning flying and hovering low at night over a crowd with little room for error in the event of a tail rotor failure or other mechanical issue that could have ended in a serious accident and loss of lives. Now you are suggesting that EAA was wrong in canceling AirVenture given the information they had at the time needed to make a prudent decision. I'm concerned at the mental well being of quite a few of the folks that proclaim to be certified pilots in view of what I've read here and elsewhere. I'm definitely a senior so staying away from crowds and their problems not an issue for me. Flying has been my vocation and avocation for 52 years and missing this event might just mean I'll have more to attend in the future.

[cdlwingnut]

My post was pretty much tongue in cheek. We wouldn't want anyone getting teargassed now.

[Sam Buchanan]

......we should hold a huge fly in protest at OSH in July to air our grievances (literally). This big Air. um "protest" will be completely peaceful, including the many war birds and modern military aircraft that I am sure will fly in to join us.

Pretty clever.

Just make sure the authorities aren't able to use golf carts and Gators for crowd control...... :cool:

[Airmutt]

Hey Saber25 will there be an Autonomous Airport Zone and can we chant “Ban BFRs!”or paint Will Fly For Food on the taxiway???:rollseyes:

[Auburntsts]

We’re going and meeting up with RV-8 owner Jay Honeck (he hosts the H.O.P.S. party in North 40 every year) and anyone else that wants to show up. We’re arriving July 20th and departing the 23rd and staying at the Hilton who’ve dropped their rates back to a non-AirVenture amount of ~$100 / night. We’re gonna get a car and do things we’ve never done like hit the Harley museum in Milwaukee and actually explore the town of Oshkosh. I really hope EAA reopens the EAA museum by then. Of course this assumes there’s not a 2nd lockdown.

This is only 1 leg of a 3 leg trip as we’re going to see friends in Iowa and Indiana on the way there and back.

[malexander]

We're going to OSH the 18th through the 24th. Staying at Sleepy Hollow Farm, just as we always do. I think there's a few of us that are going to be there just to party with Jeff, Pam and the gang.

[Airmutt]

Rolled into Wisconsin last Monday evening for the summer. Things are starting to reopen even if on a limited scale. We're in a rural area to the NW of OSH that was not greatly impacted so the attitude and practices are more casual as opposed to Milwaukee to Green Bay corridor. Can’t speak to what things are like around OSH but I’m headed that way next week.
It’s gonna take some sleuthing to figure what’s open. Unfortunately the HD museum remains closed with no published opening date. The Houdini museum up in Appleton reopened on the 14th, I’m taking that as a good sign. EAA should probably publish a tentative opening date for the museum. Most summer events were cancelled long ago but the county were in is still going forward with their county fair in late August. God love ‘em for that!

[Auburntsts]

Rolled into Wisconsin last Monday evening for the summer. Things are starting to reopen even if on a limited scale. We're in a rural area to the NW of OSH that was not greatly impacted so the attitude and practices are more casual as opposed to Milwaukee to Green Bay corridor. Can’t speak to what things are like around OSH but I’m headed that way next week.
It’s gonna take some sleuthing to figure what’s open. Unfortunately the HD museum remains closed with no published opening date. The Houdini museum up in Appleton reopened on the 14th, I’m taking that as a good sign. EAA should probably publish a tentative opening date for the museum. Most summer events were cancelled long ago but the county were in is still going forward with their county fair in late August. God love ‘em for that!

According to the Harley Museum website they are going to reopen tomorrow, June 22nd.

[Airmutt]

You would be correct, but it looks like they don’t come up to speed until the 3rd week of July. I should have checked their website rather than rely on word of mouth. Apologies.

[Auburntsts]

We're going to OSH the 18th through the 24th. Staying at Sleepy Hollow Farm, just as we always do. I think there's a few of us that are going to be there just to party with Jeff, Pam and the gang.

So we rolled both our Sleepy Hollow and RV Reservations to next year back last month. At the time we had absolutely no idea that we’d try to visit the area anyway, but that’s ok since we’re only planning to stay a few days. Might swing by and grab a beer though.

[mbalexander]

So we rolled both our Sleepy Hollow and RV Reservations to next year back last month. At the time we had absolutely no idea that we’d try to visit the area anyway, but that’s ok since we’re only planning to stay a few days. Might swing by and grab a beer though.

Look me up, I'll be on site 69. Call or text, 405-417-6077.

[Sam Oleson]

Hello all,

A couple of you asked about the tentative re-opening date for the EAA Aviation Museum. Right now, it is August 1. Obviously that could change, but for the time being, that's what's being planned. There should be a formal announcement coming in July, assuming nothing changes between now and then.

Thanks!

[Auburntsts]

Hello all,

A couple of you asked about the tentative re-opening date for the EAA Aviation Museum. Right now, it is August 1. Obviously that could change, but for the time being, that's what's being planned. There should be a formal announcement coming in July, assuming nothing changes between now and then.

Thanks!

Dang, I was hoping the museum was gonna be open but it is what it is.

[Auburntsts]

So now that we're going, we're looking for ideas on things to see in Oshkosh and the local area (say under an hour's drive). Any suggestions?

[rwanttaja]

So now that we're going, we're looking for ideas on things to see in Oshkosh and the local area (say under an hour's drive). Any suggestions?

I've been staying at the Convention Center Best Western when I've traveled to Oshkosh. Their bar has an outdoor patio that is right next to the river. It's nice in the evenings, with the river walk and the bridge lit up. I actually prefer this hotel to the Hilton.
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/6f/76/b6/ground-round.jpg
(not my picture, BTW)

For those into antiques, there's an antique mall on South Washburn street, on the other side of 41, not that far from the airport ("Originals Mall of Antiques"). Being that this is Oshkosh, they've got a lot of aviation stuff. I've picked up a couple of good things there, like a fire warning/extinguisher control panel from an F-89 Scorpion. Might be that they tend to stock that stuff when Airventure is coming, and with the cancellation they might have some good discounts, now. Some antique guns, too.

Shouldn't the title of this be, "Fly-In GOtest"? :-)

Ron Wanttaja

[Airmutt]

A few ides for your consideration.

Up in Green Bay...
Lambeau Field and the Packer Hall of Fame
Green Bay Botanical Gardens
National Railroad Museum
New Zoo and Adventure Park
The Automobile Gallery
The Neville Museum
Bay Beach Wildlife Sanctuary

In Appleton....
The Butterfly Garden of Wisconsin
History Museum at the Castle
Bubolz Nature Preserve

In Oshkosh...
The Paine Art Center and Gardens
Menominee Zoo

[Airmutt]

Oops forgot. Manitowoc is a bit over an hour but it’s worth the drive....the Maritime Museum is very cool. They’ve got a WWII sub!!!

[Hal Bryan]

A few ides for your consideration.

Up in Green Bay...
Lambeau Field and the Packer Hall of Fame
Green Bay Botanical Gardens
National Railroad Museum
New Zoo and Adventure Park
The Automobile Gallery
The Neville Museum
Bay Beach Wildlife Sanctuary

In Appleton....
The Butterfly Garden of Wisconsin
History Museum at the Castle
Bubolz Nature Preserve

In Oshkosh...
The Paine Art Center and Gardens
Menominee Zoo

Also in Oshkosh, just down the road from our offices, the Military Veterans Museum is well worth a visit: http://mvmec.org/

[flyjbh]

Also in Oshkosh, just down the road from our offices, the Military Veterans Museum is well worth a visit: http://mvmec.org/

That museum is on our schedule!

[skyfixer8]

Oops forgot. Manitowoc is a bit over an hour but it’s worth the drive....the Maritime Museum is very cool. They’ve got a WWII sub!!!

If you are handi capped or are a large person, you will not find the interior of that sub to be anything like you see in the movies

[Auburntsts]

Made it to Osh and are settled into our room at the Hilton. Kinda weird flying directly into the airport.

85528553

[robert l]

At least you're flying in Todd, hope you have a great stay.
Bob

[Airmutt]

If still looking for things to do and you’ve got the time, drive over to Wausau and go to the 45N-90W marker. Of the four 45x90 geographic locations on earth it’s the only accessible point. Puts ya dead center of the NW hemisphere. Nothing spectacular but kinda a cool thing. Stop in town and sign the logbook you’ll receive a commemorative coin.

[deftone]

This is only 1 leg of a 3 leg trip as we’re going to see friends in Iowa and Indiana on the way there and back.

Feel free to stop and visit me at 09IA when you are in Iowa:D.

[Auburntsts]

We just spent this evening over at Sleepy Hollow enjoying our last night with new friends in Osh before heading to our next destination tomorrow morning.

8555

[CarlOrton]

Did they have many folks there? I know several mentioned they were gonna head up, but really haven’t seen reports.

[Fred Stadler]

Did they have many folks there? I know several mentioned they were gonna head up, but really haven’t seen reports.
Hi Carl,
I had dinner at Sleepy Hollow campground last night with a group of Trimotor pilots who gathered there. The park had a total of twelve motorhomes/campers/RV's and one tent. It was a lovely night with a beautiful sky that was sadly empty of airplanes.

[CarlOrton]

Thanks, Fred; hope all is well with you!

[mbalexander]

We were at Sleepy Hollow from Saturday the 18th through the 24th.

[flyjbh]

We arrived on the 18th and stayed till the 23rd. It was a great time and we enjoyed making new OSH family at Sleepy Hollow. We visited the Veterans museum down the road, had a tour of Basler, visited Docs Harley.....google it. It was a great visit and I'm glad we went. One observation was that the EAA security is a little too aggressive. I'm not sure what threat they were prepared for but it's been my experience that the majority of EAA'ers are well behaved. It was quite clear they didnt want any contact with the EAA membership. Pretty Sad.... If Paul were still alive I would bet a weeks pay that camp scholler would have had campers in it. Also, Parnells is great.

Jonathan

[mazdaP5]

One observation was that the EAA security is a little too aggressive. I'm not sure what threat they were prepared for but it's been my experience that the majority of EAA'ers are well behaved. It was quite clear they didnt want any contact with the EAA membership. Pretty Sad.... If Paul were still alive I would bet a weeks pay that camp scholler would have had campers in it. Also, Parnells is great.

Jonathan

IDK, EAA made it pretty clear that they didn't want a bunch of people showing up and risking the health of the community and employees. I think it's pretty sad the EAA had to spend money (that we don't have) into security because of people showing up unwelcome, unable to accept the decision to cancel for the year.

[flyjbh]

IDK, EAA made it pretty clear that they didn't want a bunch of people showing up and risking the health of the community and employees. I think it's pretty sad the EAA had to spend money (that we don't have) into security because of people showing up unwelcome, unable to accept the decision to cancel for the year.
Thats the thing, no one was showing up risking anything. Also, It is not EAA's job to say we are "Unwelcome"...It isn't EAA's airport. It's obvious you don't get why we go to Oshkosh....It isn't for the show... It's for the people. Since when have EAA'ers become wild and crazy vigilantes? Some of the staffers said they were handing out Lifetime bans if you were caught on the grounds. Really? seems a bit excessive. The EAA is struggling on the optics of this..... meanwhile, they post pictures on social media of the goings on at EAA and on the grounds with employees.....not wearing mask or social distancing. So what is the real concern? Health and safety or control? Regardless, we had a great time in OSH, and felt most Welcomed by our new friends and fellow EAA'ers. Can't wait till next year!

[krw920]

It isn't EAA's airport. The grounds are all owned by EAA for the most part, and what isn't is used by permission from the airport. Permission was not granted for use this year and EAA was charged with enforcement. They made it abundantly clear that if you did come, you would not find the welcome mat out, and you are mad about that for some reason?

[flyjbh]

The grounds are all owned by EAA for the most part, and what isn't is used by permission from the airport. Permission was not granted for use this year and EAA was charged with enforcement. They made it abundantly clear that if you did come, you would not find the welcome mat out, and you are mad about that for some reason?
I'm not mad. Did I say I was mad? I was disappointed at the response. This could have been handled differently.... that's all. The story on who owns the grounds is a bit foggy... EAA said that they were leased and they did not lease them out this year....... We complied with the rules and so did everyone else..... That's why I didn't see the need for such aggressive narrative. The fact that the museum was the ONLY museum in Wisconsin that was not opened sent a clear message.

[Airmutt]

The grounds are all owned by EAA for the most part, and what isn't is used by permission from the airport. Permission was not granted for use this year and EAA was charged with enforcement. They made it abundantly clear that if you did come, you would not find the welcome mat out, and you are mad about that for some reason?
Define grounds. I am under the impression that anything inside the fence is airport property and leased by EAA, at least that’s what I took away the emails. The parking lots, Camp Scholler, Pioneer Airport and associated grounds, the offices and museum are EAA property correct?

[krw920]

Define grounds. I am under the impression that anything inside the fence is airport property and leased by EAA, at least that’s what I took away the emails. The parking lots, Camp Scholler, Pioneer Airport and associated grounds, the offices and museum are EAA property correct?

Not quite that cut and dried. It can be checked out here who owns what. https://wcgis3.co.winnebago.wi.us/parcelviewer/

[Airmutt]

I have never seen or heard of a private entity owning property inside the confines of a publicly owned airport.

Isn’t the parcel viewer just showing who has the tax liability???? I would bet that EAA doesn’t own the land under Exhibit Building A-D but does own the buildings with a multi year land lease hence the tax liability. Same applies for the Sonex facility.

[krw920]

I have never seen or heard of a private entity owning property inside the confines of a publicly owned airport.

Isn’t the parcel viewer just showing who has the tax liability???? I would bet that EAA doesn’t own the land under Exhibit Building A-D but does own the buildings with a multi year land lease hence the tax liability. Same applies for the Sonex facility.

Right, tax liability is ownership. In the case of the Exhibit buildings, the county owns the land, EAA owns the buildings and leases the land under them. But if you look at the parcel where Theater in the Woods is, and vintage parking to the south of that, though inside the fence, EAA owns the land. East of Wittman Rd is all county property the EAA leases for the convention.

[mazdaP5]

It's obvious you don't get why we go to Oshkosh....It isn't for the show... It's for the people.

And that's the point. The virus affects the people. You stay away to protect the people. The museum was purposely closed during the week of the convention to protect the people who work there from crowds of people making the trip out of habit. The cancellation of the convention was also about "the people".

[Auburntsts]

I get cancelling AirVenture but Wisconsin museums were open last week. We went to both the Harley Museum and the Wisconsin Maritime Museum without any issues. They had procedures in-place and they worked just fine. The EAA museum is opening next week which sucks since we'd have loved to have spent some quality time going through it last week--oh well timing is everything. Didn't get to see the Veteran's Museum because it's only open Friday thru Sunday and we were there Monday thru Thursday last week.

We were staying at the Hilton so didn't try to enter any of the EAA "grounds" but did drive by a few times on our way to Sleepy Hollow to hang with friends at their bar. Took some pics at the empty SOS Bros site but never had any interactions with EAA personnel. In any event this was a 9-day 2300nm trip for use with overnight stops to see friends in Indiana, Osh, and Iowa. We a great time regardless of the present situation.

The bottom line is we refuse to be intimidated by a virus with around a 99% recovery rate. YMMV.......

[Airmutt]

Not opening the museum until 8/3 was a pretty thinly veiled effort to discourage people from coming to OSH last week. Especially since the rest of Oshkosh and Appleton was humming along and almost everything else had reopened in mid June.

[krw920]

Not opening the museum until 8/3 was a pretty thinly veiled effort to discourage people from coming to OSH last week. Especially since the rest of Oshkosh and Appleton was humming along and almost everything else had reopened in mid June.

Agree 100% on this point. They certainly made every effort to keep people away.

Kurt

[MEdwards]

They certainly made every effort to keep people away.Because they were pretty sure what would happen if they gave 100,000 enthusiasts any encouragement to show up anyway. I respect them for their decision.
Mike E

[robert l]

You can please some of the people, but sometimes the other people are like, well maybe sometimes or all the time or, maybe, it's all of the other people can be pleased............never mind !
Bob

[rwanttaja]

Because they were pretty sure what would happen if they gave 100,000 enthusiasts any encouragement to show up anyway. I respect them for their decision.
After the cancellation, here were a lot of forum posts, both here an in other fora, stating people were going to show up anyway. You can bet a lot of those would have assumed they could park anywhere they wanted, that portapotties and showers would still be in place, etc. They would have screamed to high heaven about EAA's "disorganization."

Ron Wanttaja

[Auburntsts]

I got a chuckle out of the Osh ATIS last week when we flew in. They had a comment stating that AirVenture was canceled and the grounds were closed. I was like, who didn't know it was canceled, and then I remembered all the chuckle-heads who never read the normal NOTAM or participate online like us.

[Jeff Point]

I noticed that too. It was pretty sad but probably necessary.

A truth about KOSH- during the other 51 weeks it is barely busy enough to warrant a tower. I’m local enough and fly in semi-regularly during the off season.

[Fred Stadler]

A truth about KOSH- during the other 51 weeks it is barely busy enough to warrant a tower. I’m local enough and fly in semi-regularly during the off season.

Jeff is correct that OSH traffic volumes "the rest of the year" don't approach AirVenture levels. As with most towered airports, there can be many hours with little aircraft activity. But even without the AirVenture traffic counts, Oshkosh is the third busiest airport in Wisconsin (behind Milwaukee and Madison). The Oshkosh tower operates 16 hours/day with an unusual mix of traffic that includes corporate jets, an active community college flight school, and many aircraft types, including the SubSonex jet, vintage biplanes, a gyrocopter, and Jeff's Breezy.

[Bill Berson]

I doubt KOSH has enough operations to warrant a tower. The effect is that a Basic Sport Pilot or ultralight pilot can't base at the airport, home of EAA (former promoter of Sport Pilot).

[Jeff Point]

Hey Fred, good to hear from you!

Interesting claim that KOSH is the third busiest in the state outside of the convention. I've done some searching and can't find any data to confirm or refute this claim. Do you have some data on this? Does it include operations at Pioneer airport?

Not trying to start a debate, but I'm genuinely curious about this. There are several other airports in WI that I'd bet money are busier (Waukesha, Janesville, Timmerman for starters.)

[Bill Berson]

Airnav has FAA operations numbers. An operation is a single landing or takeoff.
KOSH has 209 per day average. In comparison Arlington has 366 per day with no tower.
https://www.airnav.com/airport/KAWO

[Fred Stadler]

I've done some searching and can't find any data to confirm or refute this claim. Do you have some data on this? Does it include operations at Pioneer airport?

Hi Jeff,
An FAA website that allows searching of traffic counts records is https://aspm.faa.gov/opsnet/sys/Main.asp. The site is a little quirky, but allows traffic count selection by day, month, or year. Of course the data are only as good as what was recorded by the facilities and there are some apparent errors. For example, the AirVenture 2019 traffic counts were not included for OSH. And yes, because Pioneer Airport is within the OSH Class D airspace and Pioneer operations are in coordination with the OSH tower, those operations are included in the OSH counts. Activity is not tracked for the hours of tower closure.

Here, for example is what is shown for some Wisconsin airports in 2019:
Milwaukee Mitchell (MKE): 108,574
Madison (MSN): 85,193
Oshkosh (OSH): 59,714
Janesville (JVL): 57,032
Waukesha (UES): 46,683
Green Bay (GRB) 45,579
Appleton (ATW): 39,935
Timmerman (MWC): 37,471

[Bill Berson]

That appears to be total tower operations. Fond du lac is almost as busy (173 day).

[Jeff Point]

Interesting data. I'm glad I was able to contribute a couple dozen operations last week.

[Airmutt]

At 0945 the barricaded Bifrost to Aviation Asgard came down. OK an EAA employee walked over and removed the sandbagged barrier to the museum. Witnessed by myself and another guy. Then got a free temperature check before I was allowed to park my truck.
Have the “honor” of claiming to be the first non employee to enter since it’s closure. Meandered around the museum for an hour or so. The staff was friendly and had some nice chats with folks. When I left there were about 15-20 cars in the parking lot. Drove around to see what was up and noticed a few things. Construction on the bus park is underway in the Gray Lot. Didn’t notice any improvement to the UL/LSA strip as was suggested in different thread on this forum. Did notice a significant security presence on the grounds, even at remote location around Camp Scholler. Asked if I could walk from the Bus Park to the Main Gate to take a photo and was told no. Did notice a cluster of campers on the grounds near the volunteer kitchen/mess and the south side of the former Blue Lot. Where did they come from?? Are they EAAs’, volunteers’, employees’???
Kinda got my Oshkosh fix so all is right in the world:cool:

[Mayhemxpc]

8581

I just got back from our camping trip to MI, IL, and then a stay in Dayton. Just like AV, I flew the route with one son and my wife and other son came by mini-van. The flyers got to make a refuel stop in OSH on JUL 30. By chance, I even got to fly the Warbirds Arrival. Descent through the clouds included turning southbound along the east side of Winnebago. Approach tells me to turn right and proceed direct to OSH. What is in front of me but Warbird Island. "OSH Tower, N424AF is a Black O-2 over Warbird Island." Intent was to have lunch at West End Pizza, but they were closed. So off to Ardy and Ed's!

Aluminum Overcast is taxiing in the background of the picture. When we left, we took off right behind her.

Before we left home, my wife asked why I was flying, other than riding with her.