AirVenture 2020 IS officially cancelled

[CHICAGORANDY]

Just got Jack Pelton's e-mail here at home

https://eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/05-01-2020-We-Dont-Gamble-We-Need-A-Sure-Thing?fbclid=IwAR0rVzXz9ybNoUhMt8l_YiLAeYzlgtCtpAF wu2KznXdnFPH3XFOuOMAGh1s

[obmaha]

Sad but the right call. Glad they made the call this early.

[PaulDow]

I guess in a state where cops come to your home to threaten you when your kids play with your neighbor’s kids, it would be pretty tough to hold an event like this. As Jack pointed out, it’s not just a July event; activity would have begun now.

We must never forget who prevented containing the virus at the origin, and all the worldwide damage they caused.

I’ll just edit to avoid thread clutter to address the comment below.
I was pointing out how Wisconsin has extreme lockdown rules that could get people arrested for benign activities, so the Convention would be impossible to hold. Also, I don’t see why it’s controversial to criticize the Communists who started this.

[obmaha]

Only took 6 minutes for someone to make it political. Awesome.



I guess in a state where cops come to your home to threaten you when your kids play with your neighbor’s kids, it would be pretty tough to hold an event like this. As Jack pointed out, it’s not just a July event; activity would have begun now.

We must never forget who prevented containing the virus at the origin, and all the worldwide damage they caused.

[LUSCOMBE PHANTOM]

No doubt its a bummer for all that wanted to attend, but the sheer size of the liability that the EAA would have to deal with, at least common sense from the powers that be, decided to not venture down that path. Its not the end of the world for the city of Oshkosh and its not the end of the world for the EAA and all of the money they have invested in the infrastructure of Wittman Field. Both factions will survive and hopefully " OSHKOSH 2021 " will happen next year, but for now, the picture says it all.
8395

[Bill Berson]

I don't know if gatherings in 2021 can be predicted with certainty.

[CHICAGORANDY]

My motel was as gracious as could be expected, and my reservation for 2021 has been confirmed.

[lynnlpitts]

What a stupid call....so much for the fighting spirit!!!

[mcmurphy]

How long before we start getting contacted about donating money because their cash cow was cancelled?

[turtle]

How long before we start getting contacted about donating money because their cash cow was cancelled?

That or increased ticket prices next year to make up for the shortfall. And they know people will pay it for their "fix".
Just ordered my 2020 souvenir hat, lol.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Hold the event or cancel it has ALWAYS been a "No Good Deed goes Unpunished" and a "Darned if ya' do and Darned if ya' don't" situation.

When the opinion of half the passengers on the bus says turn right at the crossroads, and the other half wants left? I reckon it's up to the bus driver to cast the only vote that counts?

[Airmutt]

What a stupid call....so much for the fighting spirit!!!

Wasn't really their call. Wisconsin just experienced a 4% uptick in infections. The governor is holding fast to his May26th lock down mandate. EAA was faced with the decision of whether to start seriously investing into the show. Getting to a Phase III release just wasn’t in the cards for EAA. The financials committed to 2020 can be rolled over to 2021.

[Wrongway Feldman]

My conclusion is, like in any good flight planning, don’t take the risk. Therefore, I have no choice but to cancel AirVenture 2020.
Jack J. Pelton

It is refreshing to see that the ship has a rudder.

Because of our dedicated and enthusiastic EAA members, our Association is strong.
Jack J. Pelton

EAA has plenty resources in the bank to weather the storm to cancel more than just one convention.

[rwanttaja]

It's a decision that I'm very glad I didn't have to make. Would have caught flak either way.

Ron Wanttaja

[rwanttaja]

Hold the event or cancel it has ALWAYS been a "No Good Deed goes Unpunished" and a "Darned if ya' do and Darned if ya' don't" situation.

When the opinion of half the passengers on the bus says turn right at the crossroads, and the other half wants left? I reckon it's up to the bus driver to cast the only vote that counts?

Doesn't mean you can't yell at him. :-)

Ron "Not yelling" Wanttaja

[HaroldS]

Exactly the right decision. Thank you Jack and the board in coming to the right conclusion on this. Of course we adore Airventure! But it's not worth losing lives over. Good call.

[HaroldS]

Yes, refreshing!

[CHICAGORANDY]

I can't decide, is this Biden's, Trump's or Bernie Sander's fault? - or one of the Kardashians'? - LOL

[psvinny]

I can't decide, is this Biden's, Trump's or Bernie Sander's fault? - or one of the Kardashians'? - LOL

I am tempted to grab a couple of camp chairs and drive toOSH for the day and sit on the grass at the airport. Of course I will maintain 6 foot distancing from anyone else that is there.

[krw920]

How long before we start getting contacted about donating money because their cash cow was cancelled?
Would you rather that they cease to exist? No way they can survive on membership dues alone!

[Martyfeehan]

Would you rather that they cease to exist? No way they can survive on membership dues alone!
The EAA certainly could not survive the thousands of lawsuits brought against it by attendees who would try to claim they caught the virus while attending Airventure. Yes, it's already happening to restaurant owners around the country and many will go out of business fighting something that can not be proven true or false.

[krw920]

The EAA certainly could not survive the thousands of lawsuits brought against it by attendees who would try to claim they caught the virus while attending Airventure. Yes, it's already happening to restaurant owners around the country and many will go out of business fighting something that can not be proven true or false.
Not sure what issue you are taking, as I was in no way disputing the decision made. Just disputing the attitude that new fundraising requests may be on the way from EAA is somehow a bad thing given the majority of their day to day operational budget comes from AirVenture.

[Martyfeehan]

Not sure what issue you are taking, as I was in no way disputing the decision made. Just disputing the attitude that new fundraising requests may be on the way from EAA is somehow a bad thing given the majority of their day to day operational budget comes from AirVenture.
Sorry, didn't want it to sound that way, my mistake. I'm in full agreement with the decision also. I did get a letter about two weeks ago from EAA for donations for new bricks by the Brown Arch; they may have been testing the waters. Our EAA chapter has hosted the largest Cub Fly-in outside of Sentimental Journey; we announced today we will be also canceling that event. Simple facts are we are also going to be hurting for funds over the next year and will have to look for other avenues, including donations. Unprecedented times will call for creative methods to keep some of the things we feel are important afloat for the next year or so. I think Airventure 2020 T'Shirts might be a way to get a few funds; just an idea.
Marty57

[mazdaP5]

We all knew it was coming. I'm glad that the decision is at least made.

[Airmutt]

I can't decide, is this Biden's, Trump's or Bernie Sander's fault? - or one of the Kardashians'? - LOL

I AM BLAMING THE PRC!!!
Perhaps EAA should demand a Nanchang CJ6 with a year’s supply of fuel for each member as payment for damages.

[Wsquare]

Now planning on an upper mid-west "Adventure Fly About". Tent and camping gear ready. Sectional ready. Airport/Facility Directory - check. Face covering - packed. Plan to flitter about airports along the way, and in the Oshkosh area, camping where my horse (oops, I mean airplane) decides it's time to rest. All the while following guidelines and maintaining appropriate "camping distance". Got a lot of lemons, and now time to make some lemonade...

Take care, Wayne

[Airmutt]

I am tempted to grab a couple of camp chairs and drive toOSH for the day and sit on the grass at the airport. Of course I will maintain 6 foot distancing from anyone else that is there.

Had exactly the same idea. I plan on showing up in my 2020 AV tee shirt for a selfie at the main gate. So if we stay in groups of 10 or less and 6 ft apart we’re good to go??? ;)After all the right to assemble is guaranteed in the Bill Of Rights which no governor can usurp.

[wingnut170]

Good call Jack Pelton and EAA Board. I have been attending for over 30 years, see you all next year.. BE SAFE..

[deftone]

Since EAA really relies on AV for a good chunk of its annual budget, I wonder if they can arrange some kind of one-off event when this is all over? Winterventure 2020? Or a series of one day or weekend long fly-ins around the nation. Airventure-on-Tour 2020.

If not I fear they work from the Kitplanes method of fundraising and send me a weekly letter asking me extend my subscription even though I have 37 months to go. (Seriously, WTF Kitplanes, just stop!)

[Mayhemxpc]

I noted Jack Pelton saying, "I have no choice but to cancel..." Personal responsibility. Not the board, not some organization. His decision. Good for him. That is leadership.

[lynnlpitts]

Wow, four percent, of what! Sounds as if they have a Demoncrat for a governor! Poor Oshkosh business people are going to take a real hit.

[CHICAGORANDY]

I suggest that perhaps WHEN they sound the "All Clear", presuming proper health safety can be observed, a nice Summer road trip to visit the EAA Museum and Pioneer Airport might be in order. Maybe stay overnight, buy some local meals? That sort of thing. I DID go online this afternoon to the EAA store and ordered an AirVenture 2020 hat and T-shirt as a tiny token of financial support.... as a nice commemorative..... since it sure doesn't look like I'll be getting my normal 2020 Volunteer shirt from Tram Operations.;)

[mazdaP5]

I DID go online this afternoon to the EAA store and ordered an AirVenture 2020 hat and T-shirt as a tiny token of financial support...

I did the same. Some stuff I knew I was likely to pick up anyhow. I usually hit the Hobbytown store while I'm in town, I'll probably make an order there too. It's not my local hobby shop, but it is A local hobby shop. https://www.hobbytown.com/oshkosh-wi/l69

[BJC]

I suggest that perhaps WHEN they sound the "All Clear", presuming proper health safety can be observed, a nice Summer road trip to visit the EAA Museum and Pioneer Airport might be in order. Maybe stay overnight, buy some local meals? That sort of thing.i like that, and probably will find a way to go to Oshkosh for a day or three. Been going since Oshkosh was in Rockford, and it just wouldn’t be right not to go.


BJC

[Kevin O'Halloran]

Bought some stuff on the online store
Last part of summer or early fall, ( if its halfway safe) will fly up to Oshkosh and volunteer to mow, fix roads in camping area and repair signs
Anything else that steve might need me to do,
Just because they cancelled air venture, that does not mean that nothing needs to be done.
May not have a airshow--but damn it--its still going to be my 27th straight year to go to Oshkosh:cool:

[FlyinAdamBadger]

EAA Chairman of the Board & CEO Jack Pelton and AOPA President & CEO Mark Baker talk about the decision to cancel EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2020, the FAA's Special Federal Aviation Regulation (SFAR) and more on a recent edition of AOPA Pilot Lounge that was released on May 4, 2020. https://youtu.be/zEo09gUCuf4

[Dave Damitz]

A good source informed me that the leadership has a fund in place to cover the revenue loss and cancellation of Airventure for one year. Aviation people are darn intelligent as a general rule. I am looking forward to Airventure 2021 !!!

[CarlOrton]

I don’t have a source, but I did note that in one of his comments on cancellation, Jack said it would be a big blow to the bottom line, but would be manageable. That led me to believe they had decent plans in place.

[David Bally]

I want to thank Jack for the call. Being in my golden years I needed to decide wether to risk attending or not. Have been going for so many years it would have been a difficult decision. I know Airventure is the money maker for EAA so I just donated $100 which I figure is the profit from my weekly pass. As Paul put it, as a member I am a owner and I hope for better and safer event next year.

[gmatejcek]

Hi All-
Just a thought- while the cancellation will certainly represent a huge blow to EAA income, there won't be the usual expenditures, either. And as bad as it might be for EAA, our event is the biggest thing that happens in the entire state and surely for the locals. I like the idea of hitting the museum and spending some cash locally. Not to mention the part about making my needing to keep the unbroken string unbroken!

[Kevin O'Halloran]

I have 26 champion Oshkosh stickers ( get them at registration) on my hangar wall.
This would have been my 27th straight year
Not happy about having a blank space between 2019 and 2021
Thinking about having some made that would be the same shape
But would say 2020 --Corona Oshkosh-with a slash through the 2020
OR--if Champion already had the 2020 made--would buy one or fly up just to get one

[robert l]

Now that we've known for a few weeks that A/V will not be going on this year, the realization is really sinking in. I've never been a steady A/V attendee, it's a pretty big trip for me, so planning something about every other year is ok. 2018 was my last year and 2020 was going to be the year I was going to get to fly in, bucket list thing you know. So now, I have 14 months to plan, dream, plan some more, figure a way to have a plane to fly and loose that 30 pounds I said I was going to loose, I only have 33 more pounds to go. It's not so much the 14 months I have to wait, heck, I've planned farther in advance than that. But there is a sadness that, not only will my buddy and I not make it, but the thousands of other pilots, enthusiast, kids, veterans and people in general that love aviation are going to miss it also, and I feel a sadness for EAA and all the volunteers. I did buy an AirVenture 2020 tee shirt and I will continue to fly as often as I can, not just because I love it, but also to keep learning and staying proficient. I've just recently started venturing into Class D airspace, I know, not a big deal for most pilots but I haven't penetrated controlle airspace since I got my license in 1974. So, I'll keep doing what I always do and I'll keep planning for A/V 2021, perhaps I'll see some of y'all there.
Bob

[FlyingRon]

I've been attending since 1992. Haven't missed a year and I'm not particularly broken up about the cancellation this year. I've got all the Vintage opeartions computers here anyhow so we can sit around and pretend we'er clocking in and out volunteers and checking whether people are old enough to park in Vintage.

[Airmutt]

We’re heading up to Wisconsin for the summer in a few weeks. So for the “opening day” I thought I would d throw a beach chair and a cooler of drinks and snacks in the back of my P/U and take the short drive down to OSH. Find a place to pull over and crank up my radial engine sound CD and see if anyone does a flyover or touch n go. I’m betting there is gonna be more than a couple show up just so they can say they did. Actually I’m hoping that there will be a lot of ‘em!

[Bill Berson]

I've been attending since 1992. Haven't missed a year and I'm not particularly broken up about the cancellation this year. I've got all the Vintage opeartions computers here anyhow so we can sit around and pretend we'er clocking in and out volunteers and checking whether people are old enough to park in Vintage.

How old do you have to be to park in vintage?

[Tom Steber]

We’re heading up to Wisconsin for the summer in a few weeks. So for the “opening day” I thought I would d throw a beach chair and a cooler of drinks and snacks in the back of my P/U and take the short drive down to OSH. Find a place to pull over and crank up my radial engine sound CD and see if anyone does a flyover or touch n go. I’m betting there is gonna be more than a couple show up just so they can say they did. Actually I’m hoping that there will be a lot of ‘em!
We 're going to do a "virtual fly-in". My brother is still coming to visit and stay with us. We plan on slathering on some sunscreen, eat some fresh donuts and fly some warbirds on the sim. Watch a lot of Oshkosh videos, etc.

[FlyingRon]

How old do you have to be to park in vintage?
Your aircraft has to be manufactured prior to the end of December 1970 (at least by the current rules. I should have said aircraft rather than people.

[FlyingRon]

We’re heading up to Wisconsin for the summer in a few weeks. So for the “opening day” I thought I would d throw a beach chair and a cooler of drinks and snacks in the back of my P/U and take the short drive down to OSH. Find a place to pull over and crank up my radial engine sound CD and see if anyone does a flyover or touch n go. I’m betting there is gonna be more than a couple show up just so they can say they did. Actually I’m hoping that there will be a lot of ‘em!

You can go sit on the deck at the Hilton and have them serve you food and drinks and watch the occasional runway 9 arrival.

[Bill Berson]

Your aircraft has to be manufactured prior to the end of December 1970 (at least by the current rules. I should have said aircraft rather than people.
Has that date updated each decade or something as planes get older and fewer? I have a 1981.

[FlyingRon]

It is based on the judging criteria. It was 1965 back when I first started to come to Oshkosh in 1992 and had moved up in jerky steps. It's not a set number of years. You'd have to ask the vintage board about whether they are going to consider changing it. We just enforce the policy.

[Bill Berson]

I thought 30 years old was called antique by EAA. That was back in 1976 when my restored 1946 Chief was 30 years old.
And I thought there was also a category called classic for the 1955 C-170 etc.

[Mayhemxpc]

You can go sit on the deck at the Hilton and have them serve you food and drinks and watch the occasional runway 9 arrival.

I am seriously thinking about doing that. My wive is planning a mini family reunion for her side in Traverse City the first week in August. As long as I am going that far, why not leave a few days early, fly to OSH, see what the new Museum stuff looks like -- and see who else acts on a similar idea. Rooms at the Hilton should be reasonable.

[Airmutt]

Yeah but... what will be the ROE for hotels and restaurants in Wisconsin by then. The bars have re-opened after the Wi SC overturned Evers mandate. Hopefully the museum will be open too.

[FlyingRon]

I am seriously thinking about doing that. My wive is planning a mini family reunion for her side in Traverse City the first week in August. As long as I am going that far, why not leave a few days early, fly to OSH, see what the new Museum stuff looks like -- and see who else acts on a similar idea. Rooms at the Hilton should be reasonable.
I haven't heard lately, but one of my friends was planning to go "camp" in the Hilton and they hadn't yet cancelled the "show rates."

[scuba72]

To all those who are concerned about breaking their attendance streak. Don't think about it that way. If an event doesn't happen, then did your streak end? Nope. Sure we all want to go every year, but I think of it this way. I save money all year long to attend. I have a funds goal to meet every year. Now my funds are going to double for the next Oshkosh (Airventure). Since I plan to spend X number of dollars each year, next time I will have double that and hope to have double the money to waste (no, have fun with). Been dreaming of a B-17 ride and now this dream may become reality next time.

What I'm hoping for is the non aviation vendors to quit coming. I love Airventure, but hate people asking to clean my glasses every time I walk through the hangers. And the ones who want to stick something on me to relieve my pain. I do like the look on their face when I bend over and tell the to put it on my butt because that's where they are causing my pain.

Looking forward to some kind of virtual Airventure. And Chicago randy's virtual tram rides.

[CHICAGORANDY]

"
hat I'm hoping for is the non aviation vendors to quit coming. I love Airventure, but hate people asking to clean my glasses every time I walk through the hangers. And the ones who want to stick something on me to relieve my pain. I do like the look on their face when I bend over and tell the to put it on my butt because that's where they are causing my pain."

I always tell them I got rid of all my aches and pains in 2001 - she's now living with her new husband in Ohio,

[izznsky]

Scuba72: You definitely should do the B-17 experience. I did it last year during Airventure with my daughter watching from the campground. One of the greatest experiences I've had. I am trying to figure out how I will top that in the future.

[L-188]

How old do you have to be to park in vintage?
I've been attending off and on since the mid-70's. I can't remember anyone ever checking ID's but maybe
thats a new requirement. :)

[FlyingRon]

I've been attending off and on since the mid-70's. I can't remember anyone ever checking ID's but maybe
thats a new requirement. :)
Not the pilot, but the aircraft. We run nearly everybody through software I wrote to verify eligiblity (also flags our special parkers like past grand champions). Pilots are incredible liars.

[rwanttaja]

Pilots are incredible liars.
No we aren't. :-)

Ron "Would I lie to you?" Wanttaja

[FlyingRon]

One year I was preparing to go to the show and was printing up my usual VAC and VFR signs. I added a "THANK YOU" and "HILTON" signs. The THANK YOU was well received by most of the ground guys (I actually had one snap my picture while I was holding it up). The HILTON was that on the last day of the show we taxi up to the HILTON and check in so we can have a shower before the volunteer "dead dog" party and sleep in a nice bed and have a breakfast before flying home.

Subsequent years I ended up with more signs like: "YOU LOOK GOOD IN ORANGE," "YOU LOOK GOOD IN PINK," and "MVFR."


One year I showed up with "WHY CAN'T I PARK HERE?" "I PARKED HERE LAST YEAR." "I KNOW TOM."

[rwanttaja]

Starting to look like EAA may have guessed right....
http://www.wanttaja.com/7-day.JPG

Ron Wanttaja

[CHICAGORANDY]

Since the middle of March, the outcome of ALL Covid 19 mitigation, containment and recovery protocols depended 100% on WE THE PEOPLE following simple instructions and health safety guidelines. In other words, it was screwed from the start.

The large increases in so many States when graphed out also one-to-one inversely reflects the 'common sense' and cranial capacity levels of the citizens of each State..... IMHO

[Kyle Boatright]

I'm not sure cases/day is a fair measure. We're testing far more people today because testing is widely available and not just to people at high risk or who have likely been exposed.

That said, I have professional adult cow-workers (tip of the hat to Dilbert) who are going places/doing things I wouldn't do right now and things they wouldn't have done a month or two ago. They have let their guard way down. That isn't helpful.

[Airmutt]

Ron I think you give EAA too much credit. Wisconsin is still not allowing public gatherings greater than 25. I haven’t seen anything to collaborate but I’ve been told Oshkosh is seeing a big uptick. That could be due to more people going back to work and getting tested. Virtually all major events in the area have been canx’ed.
The weather has gone from rainy every day to brutally hot and humid. It hit 92 on my unofficial and uncalibrated weather station. The RH is about 30% but the winds have gone flat. Predicted to remain unchanged for about the next 10 days. So much for coming north to escape the southern heat:(

[FlyingRon]

I'm not sure cases/day is a fair measure. We're testing far more people today because testing is widely available and not just to people at high risk or who have likely been exposed.

That said, I have professional adult cow-workers (tip of the hat to Dilbert) who are going places/doing things I wouldn't do right now and things they wouldn't have done a month or two ago. They have let their guard way down. That isn't helpful.
The other metrics are going up as well. You don't have to have a sophisticated test to determine if someone is dead.

[Kyle Boatright]

The other metrics are going up as well. You don't have to have a sophisticated test to determine if someone is dead.

According to what I'm seeing in the MSM, deaths are flat. (Mostly, I think that's because of the distancing and other measures taken in retirement facilities).

Here's a story: https://www.businessinsider.com/us-coronavirus-cases-skyrocket-daily-deaths-flat-2020-7

[robert l]

So much for coming north to escape the southern heat.
I have spent all of my 73 years, (except when working in other states for a few months at a time) in the South, but in 2011 on my first trip to Airventure, I got sun poisoning. Go figure !
Bob, you call this hot?! Well, yeah !

[Jeff Point]

Ron I think you give EAA too much credit. Wisconsin is still not allowing public gatherings greater than 25.

Actually there are no statewide restrictions in WI. Our Supreme Court shot that down in early May. Of course EAA had no way to predict that when they made the decision and they went with the best info they had at the time.

The statewide case numbers are seeing an uptick but both deaths and hospitalizations are steadily decreasing. Those numbers are a better barometer then cases, which are subject to the vagaries of testing.

[steve]

I received an email notice today that the Triple Tree group has cancelled every event for the rest of 2020. TT Aerodrome is in South Carolina. As of today, the Reno air races is still a go. Any wagers on that happening?

[Airmutt]

Kinda mis-spoke. The shutdown and shelter in place edict was still in effect when EAA cancelled. The overturning of Evers’ policy didn’t occur until later. I seriously doubt EAA saw that coming; even if they did it was too late to help.

The SC decision, however, did not impact counties, municipalities and individual business practices. Banks didn’t open their lobbies until mid June. Summer camps for kids, at least in my area, are not happening. There are even a few local business that don’t allow public access. I can’t speak to Winnebago County policies.

[Kyle Boatright]

I received an email notice today that the Triple Tree group has cancelled every event for the rest of 2020. TT Aerodrome is in South Carolina. As of today, the Reno air races is still a go. Any wagers on that happening?

I thought Reno announced its cancellation a day or two ago?

[Eric Page]

Yes, Reno was cancelled several days ago.

[rwanttaja]

Kinda mis-spoke. The shutdown and shelter in place edict was still in effect when EAA cancelled. The overturning of Evers’ policy didn’t occur until later. I seriously doubt EAA saw that coming; even if they did it was too late to help.

The SC decision, however, did not impact counties, municipalities and individual business practices. Banks didn’t open their lobbies until mid June. Summer camps for kids, at least in my area, are not happening. There are even a few local business that don’t allow public access. I can’t speak to Winnebago County policies.
Winnebago county politicians might not have been too happy with tens of thousands of folks showing up from Covid hot spots like Florida, Arizona, Texas, and California. They might have closed down Airventure for those reasons alone, and it would have been a LOT messier if EAA had planned and prepared for it, only to have the county or the state cancel it at the last moment.

Ron Wanttaja

[FlyingRon]

According to what I'm seeing in the MSM, deaths are flat. (Mostly, I think that's because of the distancing and other measures taken in retirement facilities).

Here's a story: https://www.businessinsider.com/us-coronavirus-cases-skyrocket-daily-deaths-flat-2020-7

Hospitalizations are way up in the "reopened" states. The lockdown kept most states that weren't initially devastated from exceeding their ICU capacity. They're doing so now.

The problem is that deaths should be going down if you believe that the case is subsiding. And the flattening isn't nearly as prominent if you look at the particularly affected states. There's also a 14 day lag on deaths vs. positive tests, so it's not clear that things aren't going to upturn.||

[mbalexander]

I'd like to see all the numbers for Covid 19....then compare them to the "common" flu....or is that a secret?

[rwanttaja]

According to what I'm seeing in the MSM, deaths are flat. (Mostly, I think that's because of the distancing and other measures taken in retirement facilities).

Here's a story: https://www.businessinsider.com/us-coronavirus-cases-skyrocket-daily-deaths-flat-2020-7

I disagree with their use of the term "flat"...I prefer "linear." "Flat," to me, implies neither rising or falling (e.g., "flatlined").

http://www.wanttaja.com/cv_fl.jpg

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

Otherwise, I agree with their conclusion that difference in the rates is due to younger people becoming infected. While increased reporting is probably a factor in the spike in cases, the hospitalization rate is jumping, too. Some states are running out of ICU room (again....).

Ron Wanttaja

[rwanttaja]

I'd like to see all the numbers for Covid 19....then compare them to the "common" flu....or is that a secret?

http://www.wanttaja.com/fluvs.jpg
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-seasonal-flu-in-the-us-death-rates-2020-3

"This year's flu season is shaping up to be possibly less severe than the 2017-2018 season, when 61,000 deaths were linked to the virus. However, it could equal or surpass the 2018-2019 season's 34,200 flu-related deaths.

"Overall, the CDC estimates that 12,000 and 61,000 deaths annually since 2010 can be blamed on the flu. "

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year

So, about 34,000 flu-related deaths in 2018-2019, vs. 130,000 deaths IN JUST FOUR MONTHS since Covid-19 hit. Some predictions say we're going to hit 200,000 deaths by December.

Ron Wanttaja

[Wrongway Feldman]

I went to see my family doctor a couple days ago.
He came into the examination room with his mask hanging off of one of his ears.
He started telling me stuff like, "If I were 65 years old and had diabetes" and got COVID19.
I would have a 97 percent survival rate of living.

This whole COVID19 thing is making me a little uneasy.
There is just not a coherent single source of info of what to believe.
Where everyone is on the same page.
This is a sad state of affairs.

[malexander]

This whole COVID19 thing is making me a little uneasy.
There is just not a coherent single source of info of what to believe.
Where everyone is on the same page.
This is a sad state of affairs.



My take EXACTLY!!

[Wrongway Feldman]

This is a interesting chart.
The Texas Medical Association COVID-19 Task Force and Committee on Infectious Diseases
have created a chart that ranks activities on their risk level for COVID-19.

Chart in PDF version (https://www.texmed.org/uploadedFiles/Current/2016_Public_Health/Infectious_Diseases/309193%20Risk%20Assessment%20Chart%20V2_FINAL.pdf# page=1&zoom=auto,-90,792)

Source (https://www.texmed.org/TexasMedicineDetail.aspx?Pageid=46106&id=53977)

Going to a bar is ranked at a HIGH RISK
Camping is ranked LOW RISK

8544

[rwanttaja]

Going to a bar is ranked at a HIGH RISK
Camping is ranked LOW RISK

Interesting to speculate where Airventure would fall. When you consider the crowds, lines, busses, trams, forums, evening programs, etc, it probably qualifies as "Going to an amusement park" (Moderate-High Risk, Level 8) or "Attending a large music concert" (High Risk, level 9).

Of course, the large music concert is over in a few hours...not a whole week, like AV.

Ron Wanttaja

[Kyle Boatright]

Interesting to speculate where Airventure would fall. When you consider the crowds, lines, busses, trams, forums, evening programs, etc, it probably qualifies as "Going to an amusement park" (Moderate-High Risk, Level 8) or "Attending a large music concert" (High Risk, level 9).

Of course, the large music concert is over in a few hours...not a whole week, like AV.

Ron Wanttaja

And concert attendees don't use community showers or do a bunch of other things folks at Oshkosh do.

EAA made the right decision.

[Mayhemxpc]

And then there is traveling by plane: moderate to high risk.

all depends on the pilot.

and the other ones around you one Fisk arrival.

[FlyingRon]

I think they're talking about airliners. Flying solo (or with family members) is as low risk (corona wise) as they come.

[Auburntsts]

I think they're talking about airliners. Flying solo (or with family members) is as low risk (corona wise) as they come.

Pretty sure he was making a joke there.

[Airmutt]

Yesterday morning a flight of 3 Cherokees flew overhead. A quick drive over to the airport in the afternoon confirmed that the Cherokee owners association has started to gather, albeit in smaller numbers. They have been coming to KCPZ ever since SploshKosh. Word is they plan a “mass” arrival to OSH and then head home at the end of the week. :)

[FlyingRon]

Well, they tower is likely going to turn them away. The "mass arrivals" are based on a specific FAA waiver which almost certainly is going to be rescinded (if it ever was offered).

[Kyle Boatright]

Well, they tower is likely going to turn them away. The "mass arrivals" are based on a specific FAA waiver which almost certainly is going to be rescinded (if it ever was offered).

"Formation of 40, in trail. Request low approach."

[FlyingRon]

"Formation of 40, in trail. Request low approach."
Negative, Ghostrider. The pattern is full.

[Kyle Boatright]

Negative, Ghostrider. The pattern is full.

Time to buzz the tower.

[steve]

Well, they tower is likely going to turn them away. The "mass arrivals" are based on a specific FAA waiver which almost certainly is going to be rescinded (if it ever was offered).
My busy home Class D airport is used to flights of 2, 3 or 4 aircraft, always RVs, requesting a formation arrival, as in an initial approach with a right or left break as directed by the tower. Traffic permitting, of course. No waiver required.

[Dave Stadt]

Negative, Ghostrider. The pattern is full.

In 1999 we took 99 Cessna 120/140s into Wittman, not during AirVenture, no problem. Tower cleared us to land 36 and told us left traffic and find a hole if we had to go around. Parked on what was then the west ramp then lined up, took off on 36, turned left and took the 30 second flight over to Pioneer. Tower used 9/27 for other traffic. No need for any waivers.

[mazdaP5]

According to plans I made back in January, I'd be arriving and setting up camp right about now. The forecast looks good enough, a little wet (when isn't it?), and not a swelter in sight. Oh well, next year.

[Auburntsts]

We’re arriving late Monday morning—staying in a Hotel for the first time.

[robert l]

We’re arriving late Monday morning—staying in a Hotel for the first time.
Have the hotels backed off on their prices since A/V is not happening?
Bob

[Auburntsts]

Have the hotels backed off on their prices since A/V is not happening?
Bob

yes— the Hilton Garden Inn is now basically $100/night

[FlyingRon]

I think the rooms have been running me around $145 the past few years after the show was over.

[Auburntsts]

I think the rooms have been running me around $145 the past few years after the show was over.

My reservation is for $105/night.

[mbalexander]

I'm headed to OSH tomorrow morning in the motorhome. We'll be staying at Sleepy Hollow Farm.

[FlyingRon]

My reservation is for $105/night.
Is that with taxes, dealer prep, etc...?

[Auburntsts]

Is that with taxes, dealer prep, etc...?

$120 per night with taxes.

[CarlOrton]

I'm headed to OSH tomorrow morning in the motorhome. We'll be staying at Sleepy Hollow Farm.
Yeah, it hit me yesterday that we’d be pulling in this afternoon. Just surreal...

[Auburntsts]

Made it to our first stop to spend the weekend with friends in Indiana.

[Airmutt]

Welcome to Oshkosh. Heat index for tomorrow is 100-105 and chance of severe storms. Sound familiar?? Cooler after Saturday.

[Kyle Boatright]

At least I didn't have to pack and fuel the airplane this afternoon in 97F temperatures, which is probably 120 in the hangar and on the ramp.

[Mayhemxpc]

I actually spent the past week doing what I do every year at this time...cosmetic work on the plane, as if I am going to display it in the Warbirds area. Didn't plan it that way. With covid vacation, I actually thought I would get it done before now. Habit prevails. The family is still planning on the post-Oshkosh visit to family in the Midwest we usually make every year, so there is some need to get those things done.

I am looking forward to the virtual forums, and the "Sim-Venture" arrival on Tuesday. I am getting the X-Plane simulator we have in the chapter house ready for that! (Too bad Simventure doesn't allow for flying my own airplane in the sim.)

[Airmutt]

The heat and high humidity made eastern WI a pretty miserable place yesterday. Don’t think tent camping would have been much fun. The predicted storms rolled thru the the area around 0300. At least the humidity has moved out albeit a little gusty this morning. Would be a great day for arrivals.

[mazdaP5]

Better miserable in Oshkosh than miserable at home. There's at least airplanes in Oshkosh.

[Kyle Boatright]

The heat and high humidity made eastern WI a pretty miserable place yesterday. Don’t think tent camping would have been much fun.

If you're trying to make me feel better about this, it isn't working. ;-)

[Airmutt]

Hey Kyle I tried :cool:
The grounds void of aircraft and campers just ain’t right! It’s been pretty darn gusty all day with the winds basically out of the west. Would have made the N-S arrival watching mmmm.....entertaining!?!?!
Celebrated the non start of AirVenture by renewing my BasicMed this morning. Now on to completing my eFIRC.

[FlyingRon]

Better miserable in Oshkosh than miserable at home. There's at least airplanes in Oshkosh.
I've got airplanes here, and helicopters. Had a Hiller and an R44 shoot past the house today.

[bigger al]

I've never been to Airventure, but plan to attend in the next year or two. Usually the week of the event is filled with the sounds of the controllers on my phone or computer, and this year I'm really going to miss that.

[robert l]

I've only been 3 times and it's a sight to behold. I take my old hand held and when just kickin' back at camp I sometimes listen to what's going on, on the field. I didn't go last year so I watched the live cams and got to see a lot of incoming traffic. It was cool, but being there is the ticket!
Bob

[rwanttaja]

Well, lemme see if I can sprinkle a little gasoline on this thread.

I see the Sturgis motorcycle rally is going ahead this weekend. Similar-sized crowd to that of AirVenture, heading to a part of the country that hasn't had much Covid-19 exposure. The big difference is that the Sturgis attendees probably bathe more. :-)

Sturgis is a lot smaller than Oshkosh (about one tenth the population).

Ron Wanttaja

[Bill Berson]

Cops pulled me over while carefully trying to get through Sturgis on the way home from Oshkosh. I wasn't speeding, he said I failed to yield to the left lane for emergency vehicles on the shoulder. The emergency vehicle was him waiting for someone.
I didn't yield because two motorcycles were in the left lane. The law is must yield " if able". So I didn't get a ticket.

[FlyingRon]

I see the Sturgis motorcycle rally is going ahead this weekend. Similar-sized crowd to that of AirVenture, heading to a part of the country that hasn't had much Covid-19 exposure. The big difference is that the Sturgis attendees probably bathe more. :-)
Actually, if you are counting bodies, Sturgis is about the same size. If you're counting vehicles, it's thirty times the size of "The EAA" event.|

COVID's hitting Sturgis attendance however. They're only expecting about half the usual crowd.

[Mayhemxpc]

Ron, Ron, Ron... Apples to apples. If you are going to count "vehicles" at OSH, you have to include all of the golf carts and gators on the grounds -- and Randy's tram.

[Airmutt]

Chris, Exactly what Category and Class would a tram fit into?? I am assuming one could get away with a Commercial Single Engine Land but would need a Tram type rating based on the number of pax and GW? :rollseyes:
Does Ron get to claim SIC time or is he just cabin crew?

[FlyingRon]

Ron, Ron, Ron... Apples to apples. If you are going to count "vehicles" at OSH, you have to include all of the golf carts and gators on the grounds -- and Randy's tram.

Despite appearances, there's not that many at Oshkosh. If you've ever been to the scooter/cart pit at the beginning or end of the event, you'd see how many there are and it's nuttin' compared to even a scaled back Sturgis.

[Mayhemxpc]

My mistake. I made the erroneous assumption that it was clear I was poking some fun at the notion.

However, the reference you made was to “vehicles.” Non specific. So gators and golf carts, trams, and all of the cars, RVs, trailers, and buses that fill up every parking area and camping area at Oshkosh, FLD and ATW. That still probably doesn’t come close to the number of “vehicles” at Sturgis, but it probably closes the gap somewhat.

if you specified airplanes vs motorcycles, I would easily plead no contest.