AirVenture 2019 NOTAM

[Gary.Sobek]

Does anyone have any idea on when the 2019 arrival NOTAM will be available for download?

There was talk of a MAJOR redo following the 2018 arrival fiasco. The odds of having the perfect storm of weather before AirVenture 2019 is very slim of the same arrival fiasco happening in 2019.

I plan to go to AirVenture 2019 regardless of the changes the NOTAM brings. It is possible that 2018 may be the last year that my airplane attends with me flying it if there is a LONGER 90 KIAS required flight path to get to Oshkosh.

[Sam Oleson]

Hi Gary, the 2019 NOTAM should be available by late April or early May. We'll be coming out with more details on the changes soon. Thanks!

[Bill Greenwood]

Sam, please don't screw it up too much, the procedures worked pretty well for most years, don't measure everything by last year. Why does anyone worry about a notam 3 months in advance or a ticket?

[Gary.Sobek]

I need to PAY for my lodging and IF I must fly my aircraft at 90 KIAS for more than 15-minutes, I will NO LONGER take an aircraft to AirVenture. I will NOT spend as many days at AirVenture and may not go at all. EXPERIMENTAL aircraft are not tested as well as CERTIFICATED aircraft and typically are not optimized for engine cooling at low speed flight. This also becomes a problem with long taxi times on the ground.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Hi Gary,

I confess to having slight polite and sane 'envy/jealousy/admiration' of all you folks who have the amazing good fortune to own and operate aircraft, Good Onya mate! From your short list of conditions (no long taxis or slow arrival flight pattern) that to ME seem impossible to promise or guarantee, it sure sounds like you'll be attending AirVenture in your car, as the majority of us who come each year and pay for our lodging will?

On a 'plus' side, YOU get to own and operate an airplane the whole rest of the year, every year. So you got that going for ya', which IMHO is mighty darn nice.

[Bill Berson]

Gary,
If your experimental Homebuilt qualifies as Light Sport you may use the Light Sport/ Ultralight runway and arrival with no speed mandated.

[dougbush]

Hi Gary,

I confess to having slight polite and sane 'envy/jealousy/admiration' of all you folks who have the amazing good fortune to own and operate aircraft, Good Onya mate! From your short list of conditions (no long taxis or slow arrival flight pattern) that to ME seem impossible to promise or guarantee, it sure sounds like you'll be attending AirVenture in your car, as the majority of us who come each year and pay for our lodging will?

On a 'plus' side, YOU get to own and operate an airplane the whole rest of the year, every year. So you got that going for ya', which IMHO is mighty darn nice.
We all lose a little bit if Gary doesn't fly in. We wouldn't get to see Gary's plane, and he might not come without it. Even if we didn't notice who and what wasn't there, we would miss out on something.

Not to mention what Gary would miss out on. Not just AirVenture, but, for many of us who fly in, flying-in is an important part of the experience.

[Gary.Sobek]

The Experimental aircraft already qualifies for prefered parking as it has more than 1,000 hours of flight time and more than 20-years of flight time.

The airplane wears an Oshkosh sticker on its baggage compartment for every year it has attended AirVenture. I am the pilot that has flown it there for each of the stickers.

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[CHICAGORANDY]

Apologies to Gary if my comments were taken in a way not intended. I guess after seeing all the stickers I'm kinda surprised that the plane has not seen extended taxiing or more than 15 minutes of slower flight to arrive/depart AirVenture over the 20 years, with the understanding that either or both of those conditions are his determinants of whether or not he brings the plane again?


I agree that anything that diminishes one member's experience diminishes us all a little. My comment solely relates to the impossibility of any NOTAM or ground taxi policy assuring no delays in arrival movements or slow movement once on the ground for an individual airplane.

[Auburntsts]

Apologies to Gary if my comments were taken in a way not intended. I guess after seeing all the stickers I'm kinda surprised that the plane has not seen extended taxiing or more than 15 minutes of slower flight to arrive/depart AirVenture over the 20 years, with the understanding that either or both of those conditions are his determinants of whether or not he brings the plane again?


I agree that anything that diminishes one member's experience diminishes us all a little. My comment solely relates to the impossibility of any NOTAM or ground taxi policy assuring no delays in arrival movements or slow movement once on the ground for an individual airplane.


I think everyone understands that unanticipated events, like extended taxi times, are the exception and not the rule and that the best laid plans can go awry. I think what concerns Gary and many of us are changes to the NOTAM that potentially could make these events more likely if not common. For example, I can tell you from experience that there's a lot of pilots out that have trouble maintaining airspeed and altitude or flying over the dang railroad tracks (not half mile to either side). So increasing the time and distance that pilots have to do this, which has been proposed with a longer arrival waypoint sequence, will most likely not solve the issues that developed during last year's first Sat-Sun arrivals.

[CHICAGORANDY]

The more I learn the happier I am to NOT be involved in, or even worse responsible for, the 'minor' process of safely, conveniently and quickly processing some 10,000 aircraft with their complete array of inherent capabilities or lack of them, piloted by folks possessing the full spectrum of aviation ability, over a few hectic days.

I just spend 9 days yapping on a microphone being dragged around the grounds by a John Deere - lol

[Auburntsts]

The NOTAM is out -- https://eaa.org/-/media/Files/AirVenture/FlyingIn/2019-NOTAM.ashx After a cursory read through, the only major change I noted is the addition of a Fond Du Lac diversion procedure plus some minor IFR changes.

[Kyle Boatright]

The NOTAM is out -- https://eaa.org/-/media/Files/AirVenture/FlyingIn/2019-NOTAM.ashx After a cursory read through, the only major change I noted is the addition of a Fond Du Lac diversion procedure plus some minor IFR changes.

This is a good thing. I was afraid we were going to get the aviation version of the tax code...

[Auburntsts]

This is a good thing. I was afraid we were going to get the aviation version of the tax code...

I agree 100%. Hey when you guys fly up how do you typically plan your flight (ie departure time, stops, and target arrival)? In the past we typically fly to and spend the night with friends that Friday so that we can fly into Osh late Saturday morning IFR. Now coming from Tampa vs Virginia I've got to rethink that plan so I'm looking for ideas.

[dclaxon]

This is a good thing. I was afraid we were going to get the aviation version of the tax code...

Don't give them any ideas!

Dave

[Kyle Boatright]

I agree 100%. Hey when you guys fly up how do you typically plan your flight (ie departure time, stops, and target arrival)? In the past we typically fly to and spend the night with friends that Friday so that we can fly into Osh late Saturday morning IFR. Now coming from Tampa vs Virginia I've got to rethink that plan so I'm looking for ideas.

The plan is always to launch from Atlanta at dawn on Saturday, fly to the Chicago area (often Aurora), take on fuel, empty bladders, and press on to Oshkosh. In theory, it should take 4.5-5 hours. Optimally, that lands us at Oshkosh before 11 AM local.

Occasionally, it even works out that way.

[Gary.Sobek]

When I lived in SoCAL, I would depart at least a day early, RON (Remain Over Night) somewhere approximately 1-hour to 1.5-hours from OSH. When I lived in the Pittsburgh PA area, I did the same but have also been known to depart the same day and go straight there with a fuel stop so as to have more than 1/2 fuel when I arrived OSH. Have also done The Mass Arrival thing. Last year was the worst. One year Wx prevented me departing Southwestern PA till late Sunday afternoon. I arrived OSH 20-minutes before the airport closed. That trip was a lot like most Class D airport arrivals other than flying the NOTAM ground track to get to the airport. Last year, I departed my new home in NC and RON about 1-hour from OSH. Wx was such that I was not certain that I was going to get to OSH on Sunday. Wx went VFR and all the people that had the same ideas were in the air on their way to OSH at the same time. I have used AirNav.com to plan a trip with fuel stops to located airports that did not have excessive fuel prices and I have also used Foreflight to find airports without excessive fuel prices. Five or Ten cents a gallon fuel price delta does not bother me. That is only a $2 or $3 price delta on a fill up but locations that have a $1 per gallon price will end up costing me $20 to $30 more on a fill up. Hope this helps.

[Mayhemxpc]

My plan is to be VERY flexible. Ideally, my plan is much like others described here. I depart northern Virginia on Friday, RON an hour and a half away from OSH and arrive on Saturday noonish. This gives me various weather related options, such as leave early Friday and arrive Friday late afternoon. (Less than optimal because nothing is running at OSH yet.) Do the same thing Saturday. Depart Saturday, RON and arrive Sunday. This also allows for various weather related routing options other than my preferred, straight across the lake route.

Going home is similar. The difference is that the prevailing winds often allow me to leave Saturday afternoon and still make it home that evening.

[Md11pilot]

Download Notam available but has the printed version been mailed?

[Bill Greenwood]

There is not room at Fon du Lac for anywhere near all the airplanes that normally land at Oshkosh to divert there. I hope EAA / FAA has more plan than that in case of bad weather, again. Appleton can hold many more planes, and has good bus to Oshkosh, but there may need to be 3rd alternates also.

[Gary.Sobek]

Download Notam available but has the printed version been mailed?

In years past, I have not received the printed NOTAM till 3-weeks before AirVenture. We are still 7-weeks out so I expect another month before I see the printed mailed copy.

[Md11pilot]

Thanks Gary

[Gary.Sobek]

My "printed" copy of the 2019 AirVenture NOTAM arrived in the US Mail today.

[Md11pilot]

Mine too

[Kyle Boatright]

It is a month before the Airventure arrival procedure kicks off. EAA needs to get on the ball and publish:

1) The schedule for mass arrivals.

2) Whatever information is necessary to engage the new text system for disseminating arrival conditions.

These things need to be announced as far as possible in advance so all of the folks who aren't following on the EAA Forum and similar places have a chance to hear about them, even if just from their airport neighbor.

[Gary.Sobek]

The June 12 Webinar - Tips for flying into AirVenture 2019 (https://eaa.org/en/Videos/Webinars/EAA-Programs/6047423862001) answered both your questions.


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[Kyle Boatright]

Thanks, Gary.

The problem is, unless you watched the webcast or follow this thread or a similar one on VAF, there is no way to know this info.

If EAA wants informed people in the arrival stream, they have to do a better job disseminating the relevant information.

You (Gary) shouldn’t have to post it for them.

[mc20]

Gary, I'm confused. The slides say Sat July 21 and Sun July 22. My 2019 calendar shows Saturday is the 20th. It's hard to believe that webinar is accurate

[Auburntsts]

Gary, I'm confused. The slides say Sat July 21 and Sun July 22. My 2019 calendar shows Saturday is the 20th. It's hard to believe that webinar is accurate

I think Fred recycles the slides from the previous years webinar and simply missed changing the date. Last year the 21st was a Saturday.

[Gary.Sobek]

I am just the messenger sharing what I have found.

After 20 flights into AirVenture including being part of Large Formation Mass Arrivals, I believe that the day of the week and time are correct but there is a typo on the number.