Oshkosh 2018: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

[BeagleOne]

Okay, Oshkosh week is sadly about half over, so what do people think is going well, needs improvement, etc.?

I'll start. The good...it's Oshkosh week! I've already met some fantastic people and seen some fantastic flying. Got to see a 93 y.o. WWII Marine vet get a free P-51 flight. I can still get ice for my soda at the A & W, and my favorite mini-doughnuts are back. I've had some good meals too, including salads. Doc is back. The Heritage Flight made me teary-eyed. Danny the announcer is as over-caffeinated as ever. The tram service is doing well. The Vintage bookstore has lots of good books in stock. Seeing "Spitfire" on the big screen and two Tuskegee Airmen speak. So many other things...

The bad...the parking needs help. Too many permit-only lots. Wednesday's weather in the evening...not sure why the night airshow wasn't cancelled earlier. Too many golf carts zipping around. No Eisenhower jackets. Most of the movie selection didn't appeal to me, but no doubt it appealed to others. IMO "Airplane!" should be shown every year.

The ugly...nothing so far for me, but I wasn't trying to leave after the night airshow was cancelled.

[azmedic85355]

The bad: I think someone mentioned already in another thread about the loss of tent camping spaces. Drove around for almost an hour today looking for a spot. Finally settled on a spot next to a dumpster and porta John


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BeagleOne]

Add another good, the night airshow has been rescheduled for tomorrow. I usually don't stay for it but it's so popular I hope a lot of people who were there tonight can come back tomorrow.

[azmedic85355]

Assuming minus the B1 since they bounced tonight right before the TSRA hit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[N3kf]

Add another good, the night airshow has been rescheduled for tomorrow. I usually don't stay for it but it's so popular I hope a lot of people who were there tonight can come back tomorrow.That would be wonderful. Have a link?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[N3kf]

That would be wonderful. Have a link?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using TapatalkSaw it on Twitter......

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Bill Berson]

Today, Pelton said the slow tram/shuttles will be improved next year.

[turtle]

For the ugly, I'll go with people's behavior in Scholler. It's usually disgusting, but this year took it to new lows.

That bowl shaped thing in the porta-johns is a urinal. It's not a wastebasket for toilet paper, and certainly not someplace to take a dump.

When cars, buses, bikes, scooters are making their way down the roads, why is it necessary for groups to walk five across, staggered yet, deliberately blocking them? Some kind of power trip? Jealous? I'll say, petty, self-important as--ole.

Then there is the clueless, ignorant dweeb, manning the security office by the fly mart. The one when told some equally ignorant person was running a generator in the signed "no generators" area, said that they were allowed from 7am-10:30pm and that there is no such area AND no such signs now or ever in past years. Then the lazy as-, who didn't have a campground map, told me to go take a picture of the sign! The generator is still running, btw, behind the outhouses at 26th and elm.

[skyfixer8]

Today, Pelton said the slow tram/shuttles will be improved next year.
How is a tram going to go faster ? Has Mr Pelton ever been on one while trying to make its way through a crowd of people that refuse to get out of the way? They are farm tractors. Lucky to get more that 7 MPH from them.

[Floatsflyer]

That bowl shaped thing in the porta-johns is a urinal. It's not a wastebasket for toilet paper, and certainly not someplace to take a dump.

That's not at all funny in any way....but I can't stop laughing.

[Floatsflyer]

The Good: the stunning fire engine red new WACO YMF on matching paint Aerocet amphibs.

The Bad: yesterday's(Wed.) scorching heat and humidity.

The Ugly: the older lady walking down Celebration Way in head to toe tats.

[BeagleOne]

I'll add a couple from today (Thursday). Good: rescheduling the night airshow and allowing Wednesday wristbands to get admission for today because of that. The Heritage Flight. Seeing the Honor Flight jet landing and knowing that some vets will be getting a well-deserved day in D.C. tomorrow with a fantastic Oshkosh reception.

The bad: every year I buy a postcard with the year's theme on it, and get a National Park Service Airventure date stamp for every day I'm there. The rangers are super-nice. Today a non-ranger volunteer started arguing with me because she wanted me to use the non-EAA stamp. It was ridiculous. A petty thing to complain about, but seriously, lady, you don't think I know what stamp I want? Also...after the airshow, please stop playing music over the PA system and just let us listen to the airplanes. Not everything needs a musical soundtrack.

The ugly: smoking is still allowed in some places on grounds. Why?

[Bill Berson]

How is a tram going to go faster ? Has Mr Pelton ever been on one while trying to make its way through a crowd of people that refuse to get out of the way? They are farm tractors. Lucky to get more that 7 MPH from them.
Perhaps reduce wait time? I don't know if he knows yet.

[turtle]

Perhaps reduce wait time? I don't know if he knows yet.

It's not the speed so much as capacity. There are some stops where it's almost impossible to get on. Like the red tram in front of the forums going north. They're already full from the last stop at the hub.

Maybe reserve two rows once they reload for people at the next few stops? And how about some shade at the stops while you are watching yet another full tram pass by.

[CarlOrton]

Perhaps reduce wait time? I don't know if he knows yet.
I was at a function last night where an EAA employee said two relevant things that mattered to me: 1. They said Jack's eardrums are still bleeding from the comments about the trams, and 2. He said they were tearing down the Federal Pavillion post-show and putting up a Vintage-like plaza with bleachers etc for Homebuilts in review. What about the Feds? He said they were going to go in the exhibit barns and (I quote) kick out the massagers and other non-aviation stuff. No idea if true, but they said the words we wanted to hear.

[troy_m]

I was at a function last night where an EAA employee said two relevant things that mattered to me: 1. They said Jack's eardrums are still bleeding from the comments about the trams, and 2. He said they were tearing down the Federal Pavillion post-show and putting up a Vintage-like plaza with bleachers etc for Homebuilts in review. What about the Feds? He said they were going to go in the exhibit barns and (I quote) kick out the massagers and other non-aviation stuff. No idea if true, but they said the words we wanted to hear.

I was at the annual membership meeting on Wednesday, and there was a comment made by a member about the trams. The comment was related to what seemed to be too many trams going to the north, and not enough going to the south. I remember last year I was waiting by the tower for a tram to go to vintage, and there were 4 trams going toward north 40, none going toward vintage. I definitely hope the tram situation improves.

Jack also made a comment at that meeting about the tearing down of the Federal Pavilion. Sounds like they are going to make that area into more of an area for homebuilts. Organizations that currently utilize the Federal Pavilion will be moved to exhibit hangar B. And yes, I definitely heard the comment from him about the non-aviation vendors.

[troy_m]

Bad -- What seems to me like an increased amount of bag checks at the gates. Any bag check at all is unnecessary in my opinion. I'm sure we're all honest people here, I don't think we need to have our bags checked. I usually enter through the gate that's along the path between the bus park and the control tower (sorry I don't remember the gate #), and I've never been checked at this gate before, until just the last couple of days.

Good/Bad -- Too many forums/planes/other things I want to see, and what seems like not enough time for everything.

[L16 Pilot]

I've been going since the first and I can't find anything I didn't like about Oshkosh 2018 other than maybe I get tired of watching the 'flip/flops' on the afternoon shows even though I can appreciate the skills involved. Really prefer fly bys of different usual and unusual aircraft but that's just me. Hot weather, storm and rain..... we live with that in Wisconsin all summer...just a fact of life that some things will be cancelled or rescheduled. Best part: meeting old friends I see once a year or so. Can't wait until next year. I'll be 80 then if I make it. By the way I only rode the tram once......walking is good for you

[BeagleOne]

Friday's list from BeagleOne. Good: I've had several excellent meals at the Hangar Cafe. I love that that old building is still there and in use. Although it's spelled "Hanger" on the menu boards, haha. Seeing the warbirds flying. They put on an excellent show. It's wonderful to see and hear those planes flying. Thank you, pilots. The Honor Flight reception. Finally giving VietNam vets the welcome they deserve. Just fantastic.

I've ridden the museum bus today and yesterday and it seems to be much faster and more efficient than in previous years.

The bad. I didn't get to see Dick Cole today. Apparently he was unable to attend the morning session at the Welcome Center, and when I got to the museum for his 1 p.m. talk, the line to get into the theatre was about double the seating capacity, and one of the volunteers told me they weren't sure Col. Cole would be able to attend that presentation either. Not sure if he did. He is a living legend and at almost 103, it's incredible that he is still willing and able to come to Oshkosh. I hope he is okay.

The ugly. During the pre-Heritage Flight F-16 performance, I was at airshow center right on the flightline, and there was some absolute idiot of a father carrying his young son, who had no ear protection. The poor boy was shrieking and crying every time the F-16 went by, and all the father did was hug and kiss the kid. He made no attempt to cover his ears. I would normally never say anything to a parent about what is going on with their child, but this boy was in great distress. So I finally said, "He needs ear protection, this is far too loud for him!" The father just kept on doing what he was doing, and the boy kept on shrieking and crying. Poor little guy.

[azmedic85355]

Bad -- What seems to me like an increased amount of bag checks at the gates. Any bag check at all is unnecessary in my opinion. I'm sure we're all honest people here, I don't think we need to have our bags checked. I usually enter through the gate that's along the path between the bus park and the control tower (sorry I don't remember the gate #), and I've never been checked at this gate before, until just the last couple of days.

Good/Bad -- Too many forums/planes/other things I want to see, and what seems like not enough time for everything.

I'm not sure what my thoughts are on the bag check,on one hand it's 2018 and it's one of those unnecessary evils we have to deal with. On the other hand the bag check I received last night with my 5.11 tactical backpack consisted of the guy asking me if I had any alcohol in it and then waving me through


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CarlOrton]

It's security theater. My backpack has about 8 zippered compartments. I opened the two bigguns and they waved me thru. Glad I didn't have to open the pouch with the C4. And that was just a joke to illustrate how they're not going to catch anything but satisfy the worriers that you HAVE to do SOMETHING.

[Kyle Boatright]

It's security theater. My backpack has about 8 zippered compartments. I opened the two bigguns and they waved me thru. Glad I didn't have to open the pouch with the C4. And that was just a joke to illustrate how they're not going to catch anything but satisfy the worriers that you HAVE to do SOMETHING.

I think EAA's security does a reasonable job of discouraging Ma and Pa Kettle (the locals) from bringing hooch and firearms to the show. Regular attendees (mainly the ones who fly-in) probably figure out over time that the security has weaknesses, but those of us who fly in probably don't represent a threat.

[troy_m]

It's security theater. My backpack has about 8 zippered compartments. I opened the two bigguns and they waved me thru. Glad I didn't have to open the pouch with the C4. And that was just a joke to illustrate how they're not going to catch anything but satisfy the worriers that you HAVE to do SOMETHING.

The bag that I carry around has 6 compartments, and one of the times I went through the gate, they opened every single one of them. A couple of them are barely big enough to fit my left hand in, much less alcohol or a firearm, so I guess I'm not sure what they're looking for.

[martymayes]

I think EAA's security does a reasonable job of discouraging Ma and Pa Kettle (the locals) from bringing hooch and firearms to the show. Regular attendees (mainly the ones who fly-in) probably figure out over time that the security has weaknesses, but those of us who fly in probably don't represent a threat.

isn't that profiling?

[MEdwards]

Good: I thought the trams and the buses ran very well this year. I didn't experience any unreasonable delays all week. The South 40 bus ran more regularly than in past years, I think, and was much appreciated (except as below).
They parked me in the next to the last row in Vintage, in the South 40, think it was Row 158. The facilities and the little store down there were surprisingly good.

Bad: The end of the line for the South 40 bus was 20-25 rows from the last row. If they are going to park people that far south, they should pave the road so the bus can go all the way down there. Volunteers helped out with golf carts some of the time, also much appreciated, but not on a regular basis.

[ssteve1]

LIKES:
1. It's Oshkosh: The EAA Team really has the week very finely honed. They bring in the sponsors to help fund the event while also bringing interests that appeal to a large group. Who doesn't give Ford and Honda a thumbs up.
2. The Forums: I didn't count, but, how do you garner the immensity in shear numbers of topics and presenters? Then decide who gets a microphone and which stage? I'm one of those that totally enjoys these. NO, sometimes they don't hold my interest and at other times I can't believe an hour has already passed. My hat is off to the Forums committee.
3. Cost: Of course you can go to an Air Force Base and watch an airshow for free. But, all you will see is an airshow and a few static displays. Oshkosh, ahem, Airventure, brings you so much more for you dollar. Only you can determine if it is worth your money. For me, it is. And, of course, friends and others you meet along the way? Priceless.
4. Transportation: Again, finely honed. You can catch a bus to Fon du Loc or the Target Store or the University for a fraction of a taxi or uber. Of course the trams are crowded at certain stops. Of course, you can't rent a golf cart. Of course you can't bring your private vehicle onto the grounds. I like those "can'ts".
5. Webcams: Awesome!!! And they have improved every year!
6. Location: Central US. Far enough north that you don't get the sweltering heat and humidity.
7. Oshkosh. A beautiful city that flat turns it on every year.
8. Volunteers. Holy Moley the Volunteers. I know, some are paid, but, oh so many are not paid. Obviously the EAA is doing something right that brings these Volunteers back year after year.
8. The grounds. I've seen more trash scattered about a 300 ft trail at the Grand Canyon than I've seen at the entire airfield during six and a half days. I don't know who picks up all the trash and when they do it, but, trust me, our society is not this clean.
9. I like the focus back to homebuilding. Thank You Mr. Pelton!!!!
10. Not walking past, (as in years past) such nonsense as mechanical bull riding and the "carney" man on the stupid loudspeaker!
11. Not have to stand on your tip toes to see above rows of white VIP tents (as in the past) squatting up and down the flight line. Again, Thank You, Mr. Pelton.
12. Tram drivers. No way, No how, would I do that.
13. Trams. Thank You. Thank You. Thank You.
14. Allowing a couple of places to sell beer and wine. It is policed. It is responsible. And until it's abused, it’s okay. And, until then it will stay in "my" like column.
15. The little things: Affordable scooters that make it possible for almost everyone to enjoy the event. Ice cream. Porta Potties that are as clean as can logically be kept clean, located everywhere with hand sanitizer, toilet paper and door locks that actually work.. Signage and maps. EAA Answer booths and shopping tents. Free, that's right, FREE coffee at HBC pavilion, HBC, HBC Pavilion. HBC with ice. HBC with upgraded showers with endless hot water. HBC with upgraded toilets. Constantly improved wifi. A decrease in service and "comfort" dogs. I could really go on and on. It's why I come back.

DISLIKES:
1. The Flag of The United States of America that has gone missing from the forums plaza buildings!!! Only Forum building 7 (yes, I checked them all) had the United States Flag. And, it was disgracefully planted directly behind the podium and the only thing keeping it from falling to the floor was the chair it was leaning against. PLEASE don't tell me this is a cost saving thing. Please.
2. Dodging, at every moment, inattentive little girls and little boys speeding around in golf carts, BY THEMSELVES, absolutely everywhere carrying absolutely nothing. If you need to talk to someone, use your cell phone. Believe me, I KNOW you know how to use a cell phone!
3. Perfectly able young (20-30yrs) people running around on electric scooters. Of course we're not going to do a disabilities test, but puhleeze.
4. High price of food. I guess if you can afford a $70,000 pickup truck, then you can afford a $7 hotdog. It is one of those economic things, but, it makes me cringe, on both counts.
5. Jerry's One Man Band. Go get him. Go get him out of retirement! Okay, when you're down to this, you've run out of stuff to whine about. But, then again, go back to dislike item #1.

[PaulDow]

I don't think this question requires it's own thread, so I'll ask here.

Besides the projectionist and someone to make popcorn, was there anyone watching Air America last night at the Fly In Theater while the air show was going on?

[CHICAGORANDY]

I'm a "professional" tram conductor and we are REQUIRED to go no faster than 7mph per EAA and if you've ridden all the routes as I have for 9 days straight, the potholes/uneven pavement on ALL the routes often require a much slower pace than that to keep from being launched from your seat. So I don't think we can go any 'faster'. The number of trams in service is also limited by the number of volunteers available to run them and the number of volunteers on hand to do relief duty for the full-shift crews. As well as the actual number of available trams/tractors - it is a finite number.

Sometimes the trams get backed up due to aircraft movements or traffic snarls..sometimes it's just the laws of physics - 75,000 visitors through the gates and we can only carry 40 at a time which makes for LOTS of trips - lol. Peak times means trams packed to over capacity. I DO wish we had dedicated tram lanes on the roads - blithely unaware visitors, crazy golf cart drivers, rented mobility scooters etc.etc,etc. clog the thoroughfares. Perhaps a rethink of the red route is in order - not a lot of pick-ups at Homebuilt Pavilion.

The Ugly? I am featured at the beginning of this EAA video on volunteering and at the 5:45 mark - I have a GREAT face for radio : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNFc0ToneGI\

My suggestion to EAA management? - Put up a boombox at Jerry's old corner and play his CD's throughout the show as an homage to great old guy.

The super good? The new food vendor Parker Johns BBQ - OUTSTANDING grub,

[azmedic85355]

The ugly: OSH18 is officially over. :/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mazdaP5]

Good: Oshkosh is hard to screw up.
Even with all of the rain, campground dried out pretty well, lots of woodchips in problem areas.
I was only almost run over once. Pretty good.
That is the friendliest Target store on Earth.
Loved all of the T-6 stuff, she is my favourite. I was even fine with back to back to back T-6 acts doing essentially the same routines. The sound is incredible.
I walked all the way to the south end of the field. Very peaceful down there, even more than the Seaplane base because nobody is there. Nobody.
HD vintage webcam.
Old Glory Honor Flight was incredible. I saw a few teary eyes, even from some teenagers.
EAA Radio is highly entertaining whenever I'm in camp, or driving.

Bad:
The main gear on that Tigercat apparently.
The marshals in Scholler, the ticket window, no-one said welcome to Oshkosh. I thought it was odd. The girl at the refund window also did not wish me a safe trip. Odd. Maybe it's me.
West shower house water was Scalding hot. Little kids were crying.

Ugly:
A lot of weed was being smoked at the Saturday night airshow. A lot.

[skyfixer8]

I would add to Chicagorandy's post. Remove the VIP driving privileges from anywhere a tram has to go. These people cause more traffic jams with their stopping in road to chat with friends coming from opposite directions, stopping to look at a plane or just tying up traffic no matter where they go. Same would also go for the vendors and distributors on gators, golf carts and scooters weaving in and out of traffic. And YES, the roads are a mess. I am not sure what arrangement EAA has with the airport, but what would it take to at least fill in the pot holes and small ditches in the roads, or even better, repave entire grounds with just an overlay. Not dig it up and remake. Section of road from ultralight runway to Vintage is in need of major repair.

[thellmer]

Good:
1. I was a volunteer from Monday through the Sunday, all day, in the Member Center. Loved every single minute of it and enjoyed helping all the staff, other volunteers, and guests who stopped by.
2. The two days of overcast skies (Thurs & Friday) were fantastic! It was nice to catch a break from the sun and heat for part of AirVenture.
3. Overall friendly people everywhere who came out to enjoy aviation. That's what it's all about!

Bad:
1. Security check at the main gate every bag, almost every pocket, EVER DAY. I even went through the SAME gal's line with my Volunteer name tag on for the first six days hoping I could finally catch a break, but no luck. Last year (2017) I was probably asked to stop to have my bag searched once every other day. Guess they clamped down on it this year. She seemed only interested in if I "had any alcohol". Was a repeated comment daily. If that's all they care about trying to prevent.... :/ I DO appreciate everyone's safety and security, but with a backpack, a lunch bag, and a camera bag it was a PITA for me to unload all my crap to "find the alcohol" and then pack it all back up on the next table or on the ground just past the security tent.
2. People walking down the drive paths (anywhere cart and vehicles are allowed) randomly all over the road. I felt bad for the CARTS, regular golf carts, trams, and buses who had to check up constantly for people who just veer off the walking paths and into the roads.
3. The two guys who managed to get away with riding their little hoverboards around. I saw them a couple times this week down Celebration Way and other places. Absolutely positive they didn't have handicapped stickers on them.
4. Most non-aviation vendors. The massage chairs can go. Same with the company that was selling workout equipment. Really? I mean, sure, EAA made money selling the booth but c'mon. I could see letting the foot massager and orthopedic-type vendors slide, as anyone who had foot issues from walking the grounds for any great length of time could have been in need of a set of insoles or something.
5. Letting main aircraft display vendors starting having West Ramp towing their aircraft down Celebration way to stage in Boeing Plaza before the airshow ended. Happens EVERY year. They've got to fight against the mass of people walking against them trying to leave the grounds, not to mention some aircraft with larger wingspans that require objects along the sides of the road to be moved or laid down (further safety issue). And THEN watching a handful of WRR's yell at these innocent attendees to get off the pavement and into the grass and out of their way of the airplane. Really??

Was talking to a few people about the thought of making the show Sunday to Saturday instead of the current Monday - Sunday. Start the show on the previous Sunday, keep the Wednesday and Saturday night airshows, and let people enjoy the last day in full knowing they don't have to necessarily be to work the next morning. Then let the main aircraft guys depart all day Sunday without the crowd around. They'd have to deal with all the Penske rental trucks and semi tractor/trailers, but eh, lesser of two evils.

[Joda]

Was talking to a few people about the thought of making the show Sunday to Saturday instead of the current Monday - Sunday.

It's all been tried before. The EAA convention has run from Monday through Sunday each year since 2005, and that is the current plan for the foreseeable future.

From 1977 through 1984 it ran from Saturday through Saturday. It ran from Friday through Friday from '85 through '88.

In 1970, when they moved the convention from Rockford up to Oshkosh it ran Saturday through Friday. Then in '71 through '73 it ran from Sunday through Saturday.

In 1974 it ran from Wednesday through Tuesday, and in '75 it went Tuesday through Monday.

The granddaddy of them all was 1976, when it ran Saturday through the next weekend Sunday. 9 full days!!

Friday through Thursday was tried from '89 through '92, then Thursday through Wednesday from '93 through '96. It was Wednesday through Tuesday from 1997 through 2000, and then Tuesday through Monday from 2001 through 2004.

Each of these schedules has pluses and minuses. No matter which one you pick you can find a weakness. All things considered, the current schedule works about as good as any.

[mazdaP5]

It's all been tried before. The EAA convention has run from Monday through Sunday each year since 2005, and that is the current plan for the foreseeable future.

From 1977 through 1984 it ran from Saturday through Saturday. It ran from Friday through Friday from '85 through '88.

In 1970, when they moved the convention from Rockford up to Oshkosh it ran Saturday through Friday. Then in '71 through '73 it ran from Sunday through Saturday.

In 1974 it ran from Wednesday through Tuesday, and in '75 it went Tuesday through Monday.

The granddaddy of them all was 1976, when it ran Saturday through the next weekend Sunday. 9 full days!!

Friday through Thursday was tried from '89 through '92, then Thursday through Wednesday from '93 through '96. It was Wednesday through Tuesday from 1997 through 2000, and then Tuesday through Monday from 2001 through 2004.

Each of these schedules has pluses and minuses. No matter which one you pick you can find a weakness. All things considered, the current schedule works about as good as any.

I think the closest to a fix would be to eliminate the Wednesday night show, that would put a premium on staying. It would probably also reduce early attendance. It's fine how it is.

[robert l]

How is a tram going to go faster ? Has Mr Pelton ever been on one while trying to make its way through a crowd of people that refuse to get out of the way? They are farm tractors. Lucky to get more that 7 MPH from them.

I couldn't understand why the bus drivers didn't make use of the horn !!! I sure world, and the tractor drivers should have Air horn's !!! People just seems to ignore the busses, golf carts and tractors while they are intent on getting somewhere ! All the drivers did an excellent job of navigating around people, objects and the narrow roads in general !!! Thumbs up for the drivers :thumbsup:
Bob

[Kyle Boatright]

I think the closest to a fix would be to eliminate the Wednesday night show, that would put a premium on staying. It would probably also reduce early attendance. It's fine how it is.

Aren't there Wednesday and Saturday night shows? That allows EAA to have two "peaks" during one week. I know I wouldn't stay an extra 3-4 days to see a night show, but they are interesting enough I'll hang around through Wednesday evening.

Honestly, the current schedule is fine. No matter what day you start the show, there will be a rush to get there because "everyone knows" the best deals and most of the showiest* planes will all be there early in the week.

[CarlOrton]

I think the closest to a fix would be to eliminate the Wednesday night show, that would put a premium on staying. It would probably also reduce early attendance. It's fine how it is.

I will readily admit I'm the junior member in terms of consecutive attendance: 14, since 2005.

I don't think having one less nighttime airshow, or even *any* night airshow will add/subtract from the attendance. Back in 2005 and for awhile, there were no nighttime airshows (or if there were, it was only Saturday). Most folks seemed to fall into one of two camps: Those who were there Sunday thru Wednesday, and those Wednesday thru Sat/Sun.

There will always be folks who have to split their attendance to make "life" work, be it jobs or semi-tolerant family.

[PaulDow]

It's all been tried before. ...

While watching TV last night, I searched through the Sport Aviation back issues for this information, only to see Joda already posted the relevant information. (Sigh)
Oh well, since I already compiled it, here's the details.

A couple of interesting things I saw was that admission was free for members in the early days, and in 1995 the dues were $35. I know people complain about the commercial aspects of the event, but it sure makes our 2018 $40 dues look real good.




Year
Dates
Days
Number Days


Milwaukee






1953
Sept 12-13
Sat - Sun
2



1954
Aug 7-8
Sat - Sun
2



1955
Aug 6-7
Sat - Sun
2



1956
Aug 3-5
Fri - Sun
3



1957
Aug 30 - Sept 1
Fri - Sun
3



1958
Aug 7-10
Thu - Sun
4









Rockford







1959
Aug 6-9
Thu - Sun
4



1960
Aug 3-6
Wed - Sat
4



1961
Aug 2-6
Wed - Sun
5



1962
Aug 1-5
Wed - Sun
5



1963
Jul 30 - Aug 4
Tue - Sun
6



1964
Aug 4-9
Tue - Sun
6



1965
Aug 2-7
Mon - Sat
6



1966
Aug 1-6
Mon - Sat
6



1967
Jul 30 - Aug 5
Sun - Sat
7



1968
Jul 28 - Aug 3
Sun - Sat
7



1969
Jul 27 - Aug 2

Mon - Sat
7










Oshkosh







1970
Aug 1-7
Sat - Fri
7



1971
Auf 1-7
Sun - Sat
7



1972
Jul 30 - Aug 5
Sun - Sat
7



1973
Jul 29 - Aug 4
Sun - Sat
7



1974
Jul 31 - Aug 6
Wed - Tue
7



1975
Jul 29 - Aug 4
Tue - Mon
7



1976
Jul 31- Aug 8
Sat - Sun +1
9



1977
Jul 30 - Aug 6
Sat - Sat
8



1978
Jul 29 - Aug 5
Sat - Sat
8



1979
Jul 28 - Aug 4
Sat - Sat
8



1980
Aug 2- 9
Sat - Sat
8



1981
Aug 1 - 8
Sat - Sat
8



1982
Jul 31 - Aug 7
Sat - Sat
8



1983
Jul 30 - Aug 6
Sat - Sat
8



1984
Jul 28 - Aug 4
Sat - Sat
8



1985
Jul 26 - Aug 2
Fri - Fri
8



1986
Aug 1 - 8
Fri - Fri
8



1987
Jul 31 - Aug 7
Fri - Fri
8



1988
Jul 29 - Aug 5
Fri - Fri
8



1989
Jul 28 - Aug 3
Fri - Thu
7



1990
Jul 27 - Aug 2
Fri - Thu
7



1991
Jul 26- Aug 1
Fri - Thu
7



1992
Jul 31- Aug 6
Fri - Thu
7



1993
Jul 29 - Aug 4
Thu - Wed
7



1994
Jul 28 - Aug 3
Thu - Wed
7



1995
Jul 27 - Aug 2
Thu - Wed
7



1996
Aug 1 - 7
Thu - Wed
7



1997
Jul 30 - Aug 5
Wed - Tue
7









AirVenture Era






1998
Jul 29 - Aug 4
Wed - Tue
7



1999
Jul 28 - Aug 3
Wed - Tue
7



2000
Jul 26 - Aug 1
Wed - Tue
7



2001
Jul 24 - 30
Tue - Mon
7



2002
Jul 23 - 29
Tue - Mon
7



2003
Jul 29 - Aug 4
Tue - Mon
7



2004
Jul 27 - Aug 2
Tue - Mon
7



2005
Jul 25 - 31
Mon - Sun
7



2006
Jul 24 - 30
Mon - Sun
7



2007
Jul 23 - 30
Mon - Sun
7



2008
Jul 28- Aug 3
Mon - Sun
7



2009
Jul 27 - Aug 2
Mon - Sun
7



2010
Jul 26- Aug 1
Mon - Sun
7



2011
Jul 25 - 31
Mon - Sun
7



2012
Jul 23 - 29
Mon - Sun
7



2013
Jul 29 - Aug 4
Mon - Sun
7



2014
Jul 28 - Aug 3
Mon - Sun
7









No August Era






2015
Jul 20 - 26
Mon - Sun
7



2016
Jul 25 - 31
Mon - Sun
7



2017
Jul 24 - 30
Mon - Sun
7



2018
Jul 23 - 29
Mon - Sun
7

[mcmurphy]

I just got home from a week at Oshkosh and I miss it already. Seems awfully quiet here without Bell 47s and other aircraft flying around. The good stuff about the trip could fill a couple of pages, but I'll just mention a few. Camp Scholler gets better every year with all of the improvements being made. I think EAA needs to consider taking steps to increase the area for camping. When I arrived early Saturday afternoon I was amazed how many campers were already there. I was also pleased to see the number of golf cart and other vehicles that were offering rides to people. Remember-no empty seats! Also kudos to EAA for chapter camping. I had a great time attending and camping together with my chapter friends.

The bad stuff list is a little larger, unfortunately. There were a lot of young kids riding mini bikes and such. I saw one young mini-biker zoom up and down Lindbergh for a couple of days. I also saw one girl driving an ATV with three kids younger than her along for the ride. That seems more dangerous than anything we might have in our backpacks. There are also too many vehicles driving around the congested areas near Boeing Plaza. I saw a car drive past a sign that said No Cars, Golf carts or Gators. I pointed at the sign and said "no cars". He ignored me just like my wife does.
The prices for food in the camp stores is just too high. $3.25 for a bottle of Pepsi? Next year I will leave the Airventure grounds to make any purchases like that.
My biggest gripe is about what happened after the Saturday night airshow when everyone was walking back to parking and the campgrounds. A line of about 8 cars decided they needed to leave from near the exhibit buildings and drive through the crowd to go south on Knapp Rd. I was literally pushed out of the way by the bumper of the first car. I guess there must have been some very important people in those cars to be in such a rush. I suggest we find out who they were and make sure they never come back.
My last gripe has nothing to do with Airventure itself. I just want to say how terrible the roads were south of Oshkosh. The trailer behind my vehicle carrying my golf cart was hammered to pieces during the trip around Chicago on a road I had to pay to drive on! And lastly, not enough soft serve ice cream!!

[robert l]

The good for me was the volunteers, and that started for us Saturday night, the 21st. My previous stop along the way was Merrillville, In. which leaves about a 3 to 3.5 hr. drive the next day. Well, in my infinit wisdom, I told my buddy, it's 5 pm and we are already in Merrillville, what are we going to do for 4 or 5 hrs before bed time ? Well, we could have gotten a good meal, a shower, some tv and good sleep. B U T N O O O O !!! I said, lset get north of Chicago and get a room. North of Chicago I called AAA, how about finding us a room along I 294. No luck, then I tried all the other apps, no dice. So, our only option at that time was to keep driving. We arived at Camp Schollar at 9pm, got checked in and started looking for a camping spot in the rain. 50 yrds. down one of the muddy roads and the Ram 1500, two wheel drive with street tires pulling a vintage pop up camper succumbed to the lack of traction and we were stuck. I walked over to one of the volunteers and they said they would call someone. In a few minutes a guy came and said he would get us out in the morning. The next morning two guys came with a HUGE John Deere tractor but there was no place on the front of the truck so we un hiched the camper, pulled it aside and one of the guys came back with a 4 wheel drive pick up and hooked up the camper. The tractor pulled us out backwards onto solid road. We told the guy with my camper to just find a spot and we would follow. 15th and Butternut is where we ended up, what a great spot. We could see the air show and all the ultralight traffic came right over us. Thank you, Nate, Dan and David, what great help they were and all the while with a smile !
The bad, we slept in the truck that night, all wet, couldn't let the seats back because the back was full. All this after driving 19 hrs. and almost a thousand miles. More good, the next day it cleared up !
The ugly, when it got cold, my buddy had this blue think he called a snuggy. Not like any snuggy I've ever seen before, this thing was like a fleece onesie, zipper and all. Not a pretty site.
Bob

[Joda]

I couldn't understand why the bus drivers didn't make use of the horn !!! I sure world, and the tractor drivers should have Air horn's !!!

I'm not sure how the tram or bus drivers are trained, but those of us here at EAA HQ are told that the convention is primarily a pedestrian event. We are NEVER to use our horn or force our way through. The people on foot come first. And yes, it does get frustrating sometimes when it seems some people are purposely walking in the middle of the road to make someone wait for them. But hey, that's the way it is! No horns is the rule I was always taught. I think that's pretty universal around the grounds.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Correct Joe,

In point of fact the tram tractors have NO horns, just headlights, flashing safety lights and the sound of the engine and gearbox. "Most" of my tram passengers accept the slowdowns with grace and patience - the only issues arise with the impatient ones who take any slowdown or stoppage to mean they can jump on or off the trams at will, rather than wait till a designated tram stop.

Next time you're chatting with the good folks at HQ, remind them one heck of a lot of 'pedestrians' become tram/bus passengers and improved signage on BOTH sides of the road (not just one) indicating the tram stop and what direction the tram is going and what its' next stops will be would go a LONG way to limit the daily mass confusion.

[robert l]

It doesn't bother me if the busses or trams are slow, it sure beats walking. It's just that most people don't realize or care that these are roads and there are walking paths along side of most roads. I hate it for the drivers, it's got to be stressful !
Bob

[CHICAGORANDY]

I will add to the voices that note that the road from Ultralights To the North 40 that the trams run are really getting bad. Lots of potholes and crack/divots that make for a kidney jarring ride at any speed.

EAA HQ folks....PLEASE_PLEASE_PLEASE install a weatherproof CD player and play Jerry's one-man-band CDs at his spot by Theater in the Woods.

[keen9]

those of us here at EAA HQ are told that the convention is primarily a pedestrian event. We are NEVER to use our horn or force our way through.
Thank God for this. I've seen several comments in this thread and others about the pedestrians in the way, or "on the cart paths". There are no cart paths. You are borrowing the pedestrian path. If you are driving a vehicle on the grounds, you should have no expectation to move faster than the pedestrians. Yes we should all be polite and move if able, especially for the saintly tram drivers! But it is a pedestrian path.

One thing that EAA really needs to consider before there is a serious accident (an the legal action to follow!) is to ban all vehicle traffic immediately following the airshows and especially the night shows. The roads are all clogged with pedestrians, and still some people think there vehicle gives them the right to push through the crowd. Eventually someone is going to end up under a vehicle.

[keen9]

Also, I have to 2nd CHICAGORANDY's one man band request. What a great idea!

[skyfixer8]

Thank You Rob. One thing I always get out of Oshkosh after a week of driving is a hoarse voice from trying to get peoples attention that I am coming through (How can you not hear the sound of a tractor as it is climbing up your backside ? ), and a stiff neck from watching people on both sides and in front ( head on a swivel) , specially getting ready and watching for small kids darting out in front of me.

[mazdaP5]

(How can you not hear the sound of a tractor as it is climbing up your backside ? )

Because Oshkosh has a million other things to catch and hold your attention.

[Joda]

EAA HQ folks....PLEASE_PLEASE_PLEASE install a weatherproof CD player and play Jerry's one-man-band CDs at his spot by Theater in the Woods.

I get a kick out of this. A perfect example of how one man's nectar is another man's poison. Jerry's one-man-band used to drive me NUTS. One of my happiest moments was the first time I walked by that corner and didn't hear that music. I know, I know... I'm on an island on this one. Just wanted to let everyone know that there's always another side to the story.

Carry on!! :)

[tmcquinn]

One thing that EAA really needs to consider before there is a serious accident (an the legal action to follow!) is to ban all vehicle traffic immediately following the airshows and especially the night shows. The roads are all clogged with pedestrians, and still some people think there vehicle gives them the right to push through the crowd. Eventually someone is going to end up under a vehicle.

The most dangerous events I saw were entitled tools who would pass stopped buses and people who would get off the bus and only look to the right before crossing the street. I saw an entire family do this while I was wincing and waiting for a vendor pickup truck to take them out.

[Low Pass]

One reason for the slow bus service...

https://youtu.be/Jb9Xxtxnc6w

I watched the bus following the guy on the scooter for 4-500 yards. Pretty comical.

Good -

1. Twin Beech, Bonanza, Baron aerobatics.

2. Ultralights.

3. Food (pretty tasty).

4. Volunteers!

5. Weather!! (Amazingly refreshing being from SE Texas).

Bad -

1. That ridiculous "thing" with that flip-flop acro plane flying low-level circles around the field with the prop screaming supersonic. Please - do not do that again.

2. Way too many UTVs, golf carts, and cars.

Ugly -

*Almost* not being able to get the beer I bought at the EAA camp store back to my campsite in HBC!!

[L16 Pilot]

It might just be me but I pay very little attention to the aerobatics at the afternoon shows. As I've said before I can appreciate the skill but to me they're basically all the same and no amount of "ginning up" by the announcers raises the interest level very much unless it's something different.

[FlyingRon]

That's not at all funny in any way....but I can't stop laughing.

And those big yellow trailers with the 12 doors on them are showers, not toilet stalls. My wife found one someone had taken a dump in.

We are told never to use our horns on either the scooters or the golf carts. It's at least a Vintage-wide thing (if not EAA-wide) and the rule since I've been volunteering for 21 years.

Oddly, the vehicle traffic issue has taken MASSIVE REGRESSION this year. It had been steadily improving but the number of carts and cars on the field has drastically increased (this was after they gave us a UNTOWARD amount of grief to get into the Vintage area to unload stuff before the show opened). We regularly had to shoo DRUNKS on pickup trucks out of aircraft taxi areas. How they got access is beyond me.

I think the EAA needs to regress on alcohol sales. We had FIST fights DOWN in Vintage coming out of the night airshow. This is almost directly attributable to the beer sales at Major Goolsby/Vintage Cafe and the REdOne markets.


Much as with the self-centered greedy bastards with their "emotional support animals" on airlines, anybody with a portable conveyance (segways, scooters, electric bikes, etc..) seems to have been welcomed through the gates this year (with the exception of the mobilitiy scooters, these were all explicitly banned in the past).

[Mayhemxpc]

In the Boy Scouts we do Roses, thorns, and rosebuds -- with the last being hopes for the future. We also try to limit each category to three items. This is not the Boy Scouts, but I will apply those conditions to my input here:

Roses:
- The volunteers
- The Pilot Proficiency Center. Free loggable IFR instruction from outstanding instructors.
- Return of the One Week Wonder
(I will not mention the displays or shows that have already been mentioned.)

Thorns:
- Saturday arrivals. Rescheduling the mass arrivals for Sunday when they were weathered out on Saturday was a BAD idea.
- The fist fight outside of the Warbirds tent camping area when people abused the availability of beer. For some reason this became a multi-hour police involved event. Curiously, AFTER that event, the security guard shack at the entrance to the camp site was left un-manned/closed
- That the tram lines seem to change every year just to keep us confused. I spent some time waiting for a southbound red tram before my kids figured out that it was running in a loop and there was no "southbound" red tram per se.

Rosebuds:
- The XP-82
- good weather
- safe travels for everyone (including me)

Addendum: We arrive between Saturday and Sunday and plan to stay until Saturday. I fly, wife drives. This year on Friday she asked if we could start until Sunday! She said there was still so much more that she and my boys had not seen. (In the end we left Saturday as my family in Peoria was expecting her arrival.)

[FlyingRon]

- That the tram lines seem to change every year just to keep us confused. I spent some time waiting for a southbound red tram before my kids figured out that it was running in a loop and there was no "southbound" red tram per se.

Agreed. I understand they did that so as to cover more of the Homebuilt area but the signage, while different this year, is completely useless. Things like "Stop #9" convey no useful information.

I still think that a sign like "Board here for Forums, Warbirds, Homebuilt" would make more sense. Especially at places like the Hangar Cafe and Tower junctions.

[mazdaP5]

Much as with the self-centered greedy bastards with their "emotional support animals" on airlines, anybody with a portable conveyance (segways, scooters, electric bikes, etc..) seems to have been welcomed through the gates this year (with the exception of the mobilitiy scooters, these were all explicitly banned in the past).

I saw quite a few emotional support animals on the flightline too. I watched a dog pee on the grounds in homebuilts near where I was sitting for the Saturday night show. Obviously people sit there. Add that to the weed smoke and it was an airshow to remember.

[skyfixer8]

Because Oshkosh has a million other things to catch and hold your attention.
As a tram driver for more years than I can count on, most of the problems I run into are people so concentrated on their cell phones instead of show noises that they just love to walk into me . I have been lucky so far. Like I posted before , head on a swivel at all times. If it supposed to be a pedestrian event, then why all the trams ?

[alpasierra]

I just got home from a week at Oshkosh and I miss it already. Seems awfully quiet here without Bell 47s and other aircraft flying around. The good stuff about the trip could fill a couple of pages, but I'll just mention a few. Camp Scholler gets better every year with all of the improvements being made. I think EAA needs to consider taking steps to increase the area for camping. When I arrived early Saturday afternoon I was amazed how many campers were already there. I was also pleased to see the number of golf cart and other vehicles that were offering rides to people. Remember-no empty seats! Also kudos to EAA for chapter camping. I had a great time attending and camping together with my chapter friends.


I keep hearing that camp Scholler is getting better every year, but I just don't see it. This year the tent area looked like a slum from Bombay. There were tents packed everywhere, nowhere close to the 20'x30' area per camp, or the 10' separation between tents. Every year the number of motorbikes and scooters keep increasing, despite the rules. None of the riders appeared to be handicapped. Car alarms were going off every night. There were many sites with yellow and red tapes around them. I have no idea what these tapes were supposed to indicate - private property, VIP, beware of dogs? The bus ride from the camping area to the gate took longer than the walk. I never took the bus after that. There is plenty of farm land near the airport. I don't know why they don't expand the camping area for a more pleasant camping experience instead of packing us into a small space.

[FlyingRon]

The EAA (well, Winnebago County) has already condemned and/or otherwise appropriated a great deal of land around the airport (have a nice talk to the SOS brothers about it some time). Further, there are mulitple jurisdictions involved (most of the airport isn't even in the Oshkosh city limits). The airport has already taken a lot of heat over the land grabs which is viewed as nothing more than a grab by the EAA. It's one thing to laughably wrap it in an airport security/master plan for the close in stuff. Taking any more land around Scholler isn't likely to fly very well.

[mazdaP5]

There were many sites with yellow and red tapes around them. I have no idea what these tapes were supposed to indicate - private property, VIP, beware of dogs?

I tape off my camp site, to keep it mine. I drive to town a lot, and I don't wish to come back to my parking spot being taken by another camper. I've seen it before. Mon-Wed, camping becomes quite full, any port in a storm.

[BeagleOne]

The "service dog" thing has gotten out of hand. Sadly there is not much EAA can do about it because of restrictions posed by the ADA, but people need to stop putting vests on their animals and claiming they are service dogs when they are not. Yes, not all disabilities are visible, but service dogs do not wear prong collars or use extendable leads. The toy poodle I saw cowering on an extendable lead, panting, on the pavement, while her idiot owner waited for a lemon chill, was not a service dog.

And for crying out loud, EAA, ban smoking on the grounds. If someone needs their fix, they can go out a gate.

[Bill Berson]

I have an idea for more efficient use of camping/parking land space. My wife said my idea was too controversial.

[martymayes]

And for crying out loud, EAA, ban smoking on the grounds. If someone needs their fix, they can go out a gate.

Banning is easy, enforcing ban not so much.

[Serenity_Valley]

Good:
The variety and quality of food vendors. I was so glad when EAA opened it up to multiple local vendors. I don't miss the old Sodexho days. The Machine Shed at Hangar Cafe continues to be my favorite eatery.

Trams. We don't use them much, but after walking south of Ultralights, it was nice to ride back up to Vintage. Also after wandering up into the North 40 for the first time ever, it was nice being able to hop on the red tram for a ride back to the tower. I agree that the signage could be better. Careful map study is necessary unless you're already familiar with where each tram stops.

Boeing Plaza. I know some people don't care about the military aircraft but I'm always interested to see what shows up, and it was great to have a bunch of heavy iron on the square this year. Tankers, cargo planes, lots of big aircraft taking up space.

Lambeau Field Live. Being a WI resident and Packers fan, I was pleased to see the mini-Lambeau just NE of the Wearhouse, and I got to meet former WR Antonio Freeman. They could have used some more advertising though, cuz the crowds were pretty light for meeting the Packer legends they had each day. They were kinda tucked away, off the beaten path. I just happened to stumble upon it. Then again, many attendees are not from Wisconsin and probably didn't care.

Wed night air show rescheduled. I didn't really expect that. I was going to be leaving Saturday, so once the Wed night show got cancelled I figured I just wasn't going to see it this year. Thursday's rescheduling was a nice surprise. I would've stuck around a few more minutes on Wednesday though, if I'd known the B-1 was taking off with full afterburner. I saw it spiraling up into the clouds; very impressive sight.

Bad
General Camping Complaints
They are going to need more space for camping; I just don't know how they're going to get it. We arrived Wednesday morning, and while we know we're always going to be out by the highway, we were camped way farther south than we ever had before, south of Butternut. And that's why people have motorbikes/scooters/ATVs/etc. Many of us camp a long ways away from the entrance gate. We used bicycles for years until we had enough of that. After a long, long day of walking the grounds, it's very refreshing to hop on my minibike and actually get cooled off a bit on my mile-long ride to the campsite. It is a little distressing to see young kids bombing around on UTVs and whatnot. Some measure of enforcement on that kind of thing would be helpful.

With the increased number of campers, it wouldn't hurt to get some more port-o-lets down at the south end. It used to be a thinly populated section of the campground, but now it's as full as the rest of Camp Scholler.

So they've basically designated a third of Camp Scholler as 24 Hour Generator camping, which makes it absurd to continue marking it as "no tents allowed." Your campground is literally full, you can't ban tents from 1/3 of it. At least they weren't enforcing that rule, to my knowledge.

Other Gripes
Post-night show pedestrians. It's been mentioned by others, but yeah, in the campground, after the night show (or the Fly-In Theater), the pedestrians are walking four or five wide, blocking the road, while everyone with a set of wheels gets backed up. Just move over, please. It's a road. There are bikes, and other things with engines and wheels trying to drive on it.

There's definitely a growing vibe of "more for VIPs/vendors, less for members/campers" with the increase of permit-only lots, turning campsites into parking lots, and things of that nature.

[Paul Chandler]

Just back from 12th EAA in a row - not too bad from the UK

Good - volunteers were excellent, trams generally great but always busy. Not keen on red tram doing a loop too get back to central area - it was quicker walking. Food was good - loved Subway in homebuilts

Bad - airshows were poor - too many parachutes + flip flops - boring to watch. Flip flops perform too high. Wednesday was the worst with multiple flip flops. Runway view restricted by aeroshell / geico and RCAF T6 + red bull AF helicopter
Flightline staff often standing up. Army reinactors why - jeep blocked view. Road signs from I41 Junction113 were misleading - signs showed right lane for Camp Scholler with middle for parking however middle lane became 2 way with no warning

[dclaxon]

The EAA (well, Winnebago County) has already condemned and/or otherwise appropriated a great deal of land around the airport (have a nice talk to the SOS brothers about it some time). Further, there are mulitple jurisdictions involved (most of the airport isn't even in the Oshkosh city limits). The airport has already taken a lot of heat over the land grabs which is viewed as nothing more than a grab by the EAA. It's one thing to laughably wrap it in an airport security/master plan for the close in stuff. Taking any more land around Scholler isn't likely to fly very well.

As I was arriving I saw several "Land for Sale" signs on land that if not actually adjacent to the south edge of Camp Scholler, it was very close. Hopefully EAA will take the opportunity to acquire land that is being offered rather than to have to take it later.
Dave

[Low Pass]

As I was arriving I saw several "Land for Sale" signs on land that if not actually adjacent to the south edge of Camp Scholler, it was very close. Hopefully EAA will take the opportunity to acquire land that is being offered rather than to have to take it later.
Dave I sure hope the EAA doesn't try any eminent domain grabs on the locals. That would be *really* low.

[DSloss1]

First Airventure since 2014 but 10th overall, and first time in Camp Scholler. Many changes to the grounds and vehicular rules made for easier getting around without being worried about being run over.

Good- Separation of trams so they're not overlapping each other except at changeover points. Much improved flow that way. Great variety of forums and speakers, finally decided on Wednesday to spend more time seeing the airplanes and less in the forum area. Listening to the Tuskegee Airmen was the highlight of the show for me. Loads of food choices, well spread out, much easier to be served than before. Nice having several entry points around the field instead of one or two. Multiple water fountains added helped keep me hydrated, although the water trailer near antique classics was empty on Wednesday morning.

Bad- Missed a number of forums I would have enjoyed due to them being in the museum instead of the forum area. Can't get from one to the other in the 15 minutes between, at least not by catching trams or walking. As others have mentioned, lack of variety in the afternoon airshows, but took advantage of that to see the exhibits with lesser crowds. Campers not following the rules regarding generators and only licensed motorized vehicles in Scholler frustrates those that choose to follow the rules. Tough time sleeping in a tent even with ear plugs. Another toilet trailer could easily be added north of the ultralights, near the shower trailer.

Ugly- Campground supervisor changed the rules on where 24 hour generators could be run Tuesday night due to a full camp. Not cool changing the rules midstream, let alone not enforcing the ones that exist. Also, the trams started running at 8 am despite all literature and the signs at the tram stops stating 6:30a-10:30p. Missed seeing someone due to that, not happy.

[Bill Berson]

The buses were running at 6:30am-8 to replace trams. But generally quicker to walk, I found.

[malexander]

[QUOTE=turtle;71773]For the ugly, I'll go with people's behavior in Scholler. It's usually disgusting, but this year took it to new lows.

That bowl shaped thing in the porta-johns is a urinal. It's not a wastebasket for toilet paper, and certainly not someplace to take a dump.


I thought it was a purse holder for the ladies.

[Rm23956]

The good-
Motorized traffic along the flight line did seem to be down a bit this year, after many complaints from previous years. Still way to much, though with drivers who still put pedestrians at risk. Seemed to be more trams along the flight line, easier to find an empty seat this year. I give those drivers a lot of credit for amazing patience. The new policy in the campground of needing to pay before you can stake out a site. Not perfect, but its getting better. Noticed several roped off areas that were over large and never filled in, especially for chapters.
The Bad
People traveling at excessive rates of speed (especially kids who should not have been driving at all) on scooters and ATV's in the camp ground. I was camped next to a dirt road and had mud splashed on the camper, a female friend was splashed while she was walking and I saw several other campers with mud on them. Even had one scooter crash in the mud next to the camper. Not cool.
The Ugly
The camp Scholer showers this year. Arrived a week early this year to work set-up. First shower at the one next to the Bunkhouse was ice cold. Second was just right. Every subsequent shower was so hot I couldn't stand it, even made my scalp peel (yes, it's bare) a few days later. Heard the same complaint from several other campers. One reported kids crying from the temperature, and if I had young kids I wouldn't have let them in there. Complaining to different EAA entities did no good. Needs to be fixed, it was dangerous.

[Rm23956]

You guys are the best. I would never have the patience operate one of those trams.

[mc20]

Every subsequent shower was so hot I couldn't stand it, even made my scalp peel (yes, it's bare) a few days later. Heard the same complaint from several other campers. One reported kids crying from the temperature, and if I had young kids I wouldn't have let them in there.

One morning, Tuesday?, the showers nearest camper checkin were scalding hot. Brief squirts were all I could tolerate. I suppose that's one way to conserve water. And, I could hear a dad nearby with a child who was in tears from the temperature.

The next day, the water pressure was near zero and the water was barely lukewarm. This was my 6th year camping and I've never had shower issues before.

[deftone]

I broke my long running streak this year, missing Airventure due to a heavily pregnant wife. Did you get your twice hourly reminder from the Airshow announcer that we won the Cold War and that is why we can have former Soviet aircraft at Airventure? I used to find it comical, now it drives me crazy enough that I was sitting at home wondering if he said it this year:rollseyes:

[Kyle Boatright]

I broke my long running streak this year, missing Airventure due to a heavily pregnant wife. Did you get your twice hourly reminder from the Airshow announcer that we won the Cold War and that is why we can have former Soviet aircraft at Airventure? I used to find it comical, now it drives me crazy enough that I was sitting at home wondering if he said it this year:rollseyes:

Airshow announcers are generally horrible if:

A) You've heard that announcer a couple of times before.

B) You know much about airplanes.

Airshow acts and announcers are aimed at the general public. Most of those folks attend an airshow every 5 or 10 years, so the embellishments and repetitive nature of the announcements go unnoticed.

[BeagleOne]

I sure hope the EAA doesn't try any eminent domain grabs on the locals. That would be *really* low.

Isn't that how they got the homes that stood where the forum pavilions are now?

[BeagleOne]

Adding another good: the expansion of the Vintage Bookstore. I really miss the Aviator's Bookshelf tent in the fly market, which was always my first stop. The former owner of that was volunteering at the Vintage Bookstore this year. They are looking for donations for next year, tax-deductible. I am already rereading some of my aviation books and setting aside possible donations.

[N3kf]

I broke my long running streak this year, missing Airventure due to a heavily pregnant wife. Did you get your twice hourly reminder from the Airshow announcer that we won the Cold War and that is why we can have former Soviet aircraft at Airventure? I used to find it comical, now it drives me crazy enough that I was sitting at home wondering if he said it this year:rollseyes:Not sure I heard that this year. But it is bad when you can almost say word for word the dialog the people do for the air show acts. Like little blue the plane that wants to be a fighter jet when it grows up....

While there is bad and ugly, the good far outweighs all that for me. I usually attend with my son and his and my first Oshkosh was when he was 14 (he had just soloed a glider). That was 14 Oshkosh's ago. I had a back surgery go wrong back in 2011, that took me out of the pilot in command seat. Fortunately he is PIC and gives me my flying fix. Even though I am a bit of work to get there, my son perseveres. It's a great week of father and son time. Don't know what the magic is, but something makes you want to be there every year. That magic is the good. And it's a big good....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[FlyingRon]

Isn't that how they got the homes that stood where the forum pavilions are now?

The EAA is quick to point out that they don't have eminent domain authority. It was Winnebago county that took the land for the airport. It's not just the SOS property (where the forum workshop buildings are now), but also the stuff on the NW corner of Knapp and Waukau (old Schifflebein property) and probably others. Of course, the airport wouldn't likely have done that deal other than to appease the EAA.

Of course, the airport does other things to annoy the EAA (attendeees). We lost a lot of real estate on the grounds due to the installation of the 8' tall security fence and the "perimeter road. We lost ground years ago when after a DC-3 ended up in the paved ditch that the FAA mandated the burn line moved back 30 feet or so from the taxiway.

The FAA also wanted to cut down all the trees arount the Theater in the Woods to increase the sight lines from the relocated tower, but cooler heads seem to have prevailed.

[Kyle Boatright]

The EAA is quick to point out that they don't have eminent domain authority. It was Winnebago county that took the land for the airport. It's not just the SOS property (where the forum workshop buildings are now), but also the stuff on the NW corner of Knapp and Waukau (old Schifflebein property) and probably others.

Any sense of when those pieces of land were acquired? I'm wondering if the acquisitions happened before or after I began attending Oshkosh.

[FlyingRon]

It was certainly after 1992 which was when I started. The beer tent was still on the old SOS property and the Shifflebeins had corn and brats for sale on the corner of their lot. The SOS brothers had a big sign for a few years protesting the EAA land grab. I suspect it was gone by 2000 but my memory is hazy. If you remember the old forum tents, then you predate the landgrab.

[Kyle Boatright]

I was in the N40 from 1994 until 2003 when I moved to HBC. It may be that I never went far enough West from the flightline to notice all of the land shenanigans.

[Mark17]

+1 with Beagleone. Ban smoking. Period. It has no place whatsoever at Airventure. I could go on and on as to second hand smoke exposure, the 4000 toxic chemicals found in cigarette smoke and the obvious dangers of lit cigarettes in close proximity to dry grass and aviation fuel, but I won’t. Common sense and half a brain should be able to tell anyone it doesn’t belong at Airventure. Combine that with the clear and obvious presence of weed at this years show and it might be enough for my family to not return.

On the the plus side the F-22’s, F-15’s, F-18’s, F-5’s Doc, Mustangs, Corsairs, C-17 and the night Airshow fireworks and wall of fire were absolutely amazing!

[CHICAGORANDY]

I wonder what health hazards exist in inhaling all that air show smoke? Can't be 'good' for yer average lungs.

[streffpilot]

I wonder what health hazards exist in inhaling all that air show smoke? Can't be 'good' for yer average lungs.

We all have the upgraded "aircraft grade" lungs.....doesn't bother us at all........

[mazdaP5]

We all have the upgraded "aircraft grade" lungs.....doesn't bother us at all........

...He died doing what he loved...

[martymayes]

I wonder what health hazards exist in inhaling all that air show smoke? Can't be 'good' for yer average lungs.

Yes! but pilot's lungs are like their flying skills - Waaaay above average!!

[Joda]

We lost a lot of real estate on the grounds due to the installation of the 8' tall security fence and the "perimeter road.

All of which can be laid at the feet of the former airport manager, who didn't do any favors for the EAA convention. Fortunately, we recently got a new airport manager, so we are hopeful that we won't have so much of that kind of thing going on. We shall see!

[martymayes]

Combine that with the clear and obvious presence of weed at this years show and it might be enough for my family to not return.

My first visit to Oshkosh was 1984 and there was the clear and obvious presence of weed then.

[Low Pass]

..... installation of the 8' tall security fence and the "perimeter road...I did notice that super-duper Guantanamo style fencing! Protecting us all from the homeland security threats, I'm sure.

[martymayes]

Isn't TSA the reason for security fences at airports now ?? Observation points intended for the general public at airports are strongly discouraged by TSA as well. Can't have people watching airplanes......

[robert l]

I wonder what health hazards exist in inhaling all that air show smoke? Can't be 'good' for yer average lungs.

That's a good point Randy. I was an extra in the Mel Gibson movie, The Patriot, and when they fanned smoke onto the set, we got extra pay. On the checks it was listed as, "Smoke Pay" ! Go figure.
Bob

[ssteve1]

Isn't TSA the reason for security fences at airports now ?? Observation points intended for the general public at airports are strongly discouraged by TSA as well. Can't have people watching airplanes......

Nope. TSA had nothing to do with building fences. The reason fences went up was due to terrorists subverting our security and flying US airliners into buildings inside our borders killing thousands of citizens.

[Bill Berson]

Smoke in the campground every evening was far worse than any cigarettes.

[streffpilot]

...He died doing what he loved...


gonna kick the bucket anyway....might as well be while doing something you love. Better than a life full of regret.

[mazdaP5]

gonna kick the bucket anyway....might as well be while doing something you love. Better than a life full of regret.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/50a999c0ee35963ca7a54e25babc6e9a/tumblr_p4qyao4DPm1x4w5qjo1_640.gif

[streffpilot]

https://78.media.tumblr.com/50a999c0ee35963ca7a54e25babc6e9a/tumblr_p4qyao4DPm1x4w5qjo1_640.gif
:thumbsup:

[Mark17]

My first visit to Oshkosh was 1984 and there was the clear and obvious presence of weed then.

Do you really want to be exposed to weed at our Annual EAA Convention? I’m Pretty sure exposure to weed at a convention for pilots might not be the best when it comes time for your medical. Not to mention I had several kids in our group this year ranging in age from 5 to 14. It’s not 1984 anymore.

[FlyingRon]

Nope. TSA had nothing to do with building fences. The reason fences went up was due to terrorists subverting our security and flying US airliners into buildings inside our borders killing thousands of citizens.
Really? And ten foot fences at Wittman Field solves what? There haven't been airliners (other than Airventure demos) there since long before 911.

[Kyle Boatright]

Really? And ten foot fences at Wittman Field solves what? There haven't been airliners (other than Airventure demos) there since long before 911.

Well, you know, those 9/11 hijackers stormed the fenceless major airfields and forcibly boarded the airliners, just like the pirates of old.

Oh, wait...

[lkorona]

Nope. TSA had nothing to do with building fences. The reason fences went up was due to terrorists subverting our security and flying US airliners into buildings inside our borders killing thousands of citizens.

Here I thought it was to keep out the terrorizing deer. Human terrorists can climb the fence, we humans have thumbs.

A complete waste of money otherwise.

[martymayes]

Here I thought it was to keep out the terrorizing deer. Human terrorists can climb the fence, we humans have thumbs.

A complete waste of money otherwise.

At our airport it kept the deer in. They got in and couldn't get out because of the fence.

[Mayhemxpc]

Deer can occasionally be quite talented at getting over or through those fences too. I have seen tom turkey that obviously flew over the fence to get in, then forgot it could fly to get back out. Too distracted by a hen calling on the other side. (Now that I see that in print it sounds like sounds like some pilots I know.)

WRT to "a complete waste of money otherwise" the same can be said of the SFRA around DC. Or forbidding small pocket knives (necessary for opening the hermetically sealed food packages.)

[FlyingRon]

We have deer inside the secured areas at the Army Aberdeen Proving Ground. They don't know what side of the fence they're supposed to be on and we have to escort hunters in from time to time to get rid of them. The other thing that seems to fly in towards my old office are golfballs from the adjacent golf course. I'd find them in the parking lot of my building (if they had just recently landed, I'd toss them back on to the green near there, the rest went into a box in my office).

Reminds me of another issue there. We had a couple of people put up a volleyball net behind the building and we'd play at lunch (off the clock). Occasionally the ball would go over the fence. We had one guy who was actually in the Army (an artilleryman no less). He'd take a fast run at the fence, plant one foot about six feet up and vault over the barbed wire. He'd throw the ball back in and then repeat the process in the other direction. When the security officer found out, they issued an emergency edict. Not "Don't jump over the fence." But "No volleyball playing in the restricted area." National Security has been accomplished if volleyballs are secured.

[stummers]

Just some thoughts as they pop into my head. We camped in Camp Scholler Saturday until the following Sunday. The water in the shower house across from the security building was very warm but not too hot, just right. Every port-a-jon I used was very clean. The current military participation was great. The air crews were great to talk with and they all seemed to really enjoy being there. When I get home I always tell people how clean airshow fans are. Each day after the crowds leave the flight line you rarely ever see a piece of trash left on the ground. One of my first stops each year is for the maple bacon ice cream cone. It would be nice to see the L-birds be able to make a pass or 2 closer to the crowd line. The bag checks were never an issue any day at any gate. Jerry was an icon. I miss the Lt Dan Band on Thursday nights. I rode the blue and red trams without any issues. Tent or non hook up camping spots are becoming scarce.

[planemechae]

2018 was my second year at Airventure. I camped in Scholler from Sunday thru Saturday and here are my pluses and minuses of the week. I also took my girlfriend this year and it was her first ever airshow and first time around planes. I’m thankful to the nice guy whose name I forgot let me use his beautiful Stinson in the Vintage area Sunday to teach her the dos and don’ts of hanging around airplanes, didn’t want her inadvertently damaging a plane.

Pluses-
Weather- the weather was amazing all week for camping and wondering around the grounds. The Wednesday evening storms didn't affect us too much and I'm glad the rescheduled the night show for Thurs.

Food- Again this year I was grateful for all the good food selections scattered throughout the grounds. Had a nice variety and never seemed too far from a meal if needed.

Scholler facilities- The showers and porta-johns in the campgrounds were always clean. I loved the new store by the Elm shower house.

Scholler security- I seemed to notice more security roaming around the grounds more than last year. Also on more than one occasion I saw the security guys giving rides on their carts to older people walking back from the shows in the dark, good job guys.
Grounds- The grounds were always clean and porta-johns were always close by. I also loved all the water fountains I found this year that had spots to refill bottles, didn’t notice them last year not sure if they are new or not.

People- I’ve been impressed the last two years of all the super nice people I’ve meet during Airventure, everyone is so nice and I’ve only seen a couple of confrontations and with that many people around is amazing.


Minuses-

Scholler-More good sidewalks are needed in Scholler along all the main roads for foot traffic, especially at night. They need to enforce the rules of no unlicensed people operating motorized vehicles on the roads. I was nearly run over several times by kids flying thru intersections in carts and scooters.

Grounds-Too many carts roaming around on the grounds, I understand the vendors and other people need to get around the grounds efficiently but with pedestrians and increasing numbers of carts sharing the same roads sooner or later someone is going to be injured. I’m not sure a good solution to this problem, possibly some segregated roads for people and carts, less intermingling of the two.

While this year didn’t have one of the big jet teams flying the airshow was great. Enough variety to keep me interested and some nice newer unique acts, Yak 110.

[Bill Berson]

Yeah, the occasional loud jet flyby seemed more sensible than the big name formations to me.

[Mayhemxpc]

Well there was the surprise visit by the Blue Angels on Wednesday. That is about as big a jet team as you can get.

Also so mark that visit in the PLUS category for me.

[delta2ul]

I've been volunteering on trams for 10 years now and most of what was said above rings true. I finally told the tram chair persons I didn't want to drive the yellow route because of all the people and especially kids between Theatre in the Woods and the flight line. Some alternative needs to be done to get around that area, maybe using the perimeter road. The tram vols get just as frustrated as the riders when the lines get long. I was told to shift from red to green to reduce the backlog going West which worked great. Each route gets busy at certain times and relatively quiet at others. I knew we were going to be busy this year on the first Sunday we were so busy. Everyone who supports the trams are very much appreciated! I have met some amazing people who were riding my tram.
We do have to remember that Airventure Oshkosh only happens one week per year when we want major capital improvements but I sure wish the roads were in better shape! Tram drivers memorize all the serious bumps and try to slow down but there were some bad ones this year and some that have been bad for years.
Wittman Road between the Hanger Cafe and the Antique Red barn should be severely limited for vehicles, especially cars and golf carts.
By my observation the most hazardous golf cart drivers are exhibitors, EAA Staff, and Security. Rules won't solve the problem; only enforcement, unfortunately.
I've been to 35 Conventions in a row. I can remember seeing Paul P. in his red Volkswagen quite often out and about on the grounds; giving members his familiar thumbs up. I can't remember every seeing Mr. Pelton out and about at all. I'm sure he has many demands on his time....
Still, I can't wait for Oshkosh 2019!

[robertc]

Plus-Torra Torra Torra wasn't in the airshow.

[BeagleOne]

I'm not sure how to enforce it, but vendors should not be allowed to drive their carts along the flight line unless their exhibit is out there or they are on some kind of vendor business. Driving the family around, especially with a little kid on the driver's lap, which I see more frequently every year, needs to stop. I also saw some carts driven by people who appeared to be too young to have a driver's license. I get that a golf cart is not a car, but with the crowds around, many of whom appear to be clueless about looking for traffic...it's only a matter of time until someone gets run over.

Still waiting for an Eisenhower jacket...

[mazdaP5]

. I can remember seeing Paul P. in his red Volkswagen quite often out and about on the grounds; giving members his familiar thumbs up. I can't remember every seeing Mr. Pelton out and about at all. I'm sure he has many demands on his time....
Still, I can't wait for Oshkosh 2019!

I've seen him around. His cart has Smiling Jack painted on the bonnet. Hightower's cart was painted like a Stearman.

[Floatsflyer]

I'm not sure how to enforce it, but vendors should not be allowed to drive their carts along the flight line unless their exhibit is out there or they are on some kind of vendor business. Driving the family around, especially with a little kid on the driver's lap, which I see more frequently every year, needs to stop. I also saw some carts driven by people who appeared to be too young to have a driver's license. I get that a golf cart is not a car, but with the crowds around, many of whom appear to be clueless about looking for traffic...it's only a matter of time until someone gets run over.

You had some very fine people on both sides of the road. :>)

[deftone]

I can't remember every seeing Mr. Pelton out and about at all. I'm sure he has many demands on his time....
Still, I can't wait for Oshkosh 2019!

I 100% agree with this. For this one week per year Jack needs to be out and about, making himself available to the membership, not hanging out with Corporate sponsors.

[CarlOrton]

OK; I'll step up to defend Jack's visibility. Let's be pragmatic:

For most of us, for several decades Paul was more of the "ambassador" of EAA; Paul was over 60, Tom was running things for the most part, and if he wasn't, other staff did. He (Paul) had the luxury of time to get out there. Remember - he hated the "corporate-ness" of what Convention had become, so it was an escape for him to do what he loved - talk to folks.

I don't think Jack spends an inordinate amount of time with sponsors as opposed to members. He just has too many requests for appearances. Something big going on? He's there, regardless of whether it's member-centric or sponsor-centric. We've just gotten so big, we need to clone Jack.

In another thread we talked about choosing board members; one slant on it was that in the corporate world, EVERYONE expects a bit of schmoozing. We all want to feel "special," that we're big enough to garner a visit from Jack. Note that he doesn't spend a lot of time with any one venue. Do we all rush around the grounds from 0700 - 2200 without stopping? How many of us just pull up a bench or prop under a wing to just look at the airplanes for an hour or so during the day at Oshkosh? You're being a hypocrite if you do - you want Jack around all the time, but you don't want to give him a chance to sit back and relax for a bit.

Is Jack perfect? No. But in the post-Paul world, I'll take Jack over Rod every time.

[John Leidel]

Well its been almost a month and life is getting back to normal. 2018 was my brother Glenn and my 46th year attending Oshkosh! The first year I sat on his shoulders to watch the show. Now he won't let me! LOL!
Over the years we have seen many things change, some for better, some for worse. Here is my list for 2018:
Good: This was Glenn and my first year volunteering in the Warbirds area working with the Tram Tour. Glenn did announcing in the tent and I did Warbird Membership sales. Originally I signed up to be a driver, but wasn't needed. Hopefully next year. We both has a blast meeting and connecting with the people that go with the hardware. It was an amazing experience!
-An absolutely amazing number of Warbirds and current military aircraft on the ground and in the air!
-Being I spent most of my time volunteering, I really enjoyed the Trams to get around and cover as much of the grounds as I could.
-As always, the Seaplane Base is the best kept secret and a relaxing and beautiful place to visit.
Bad: I still miss the missing man formation that ALWAYS used to happen at the conclusion on the Warbird shows! To me it is one on the most important parts of the show!
-The "Drifting"... This is an air show, not a car show. I dont appreciate the noise of screeching tires drowning out everything in the area of the Ford tent. I want to hear the music of aircraft, not screeching tires!
Ugly: Like somebody mentioned earlier, old saggy tattoo ladies LOL! :)
I'm looking forward to 2019! Hopefully my schedule will allow me to volunteer again as I did this year!

[mazdaP5]

Thanks for volunteering!
My worry with the drift cars is that if something breaks loose, the spectators are awfully close.

[robert l]

Well its been almost a month and life is getting back to normal. 2018 was my brother Glenn and my 46th year attending Oshkosh! The first year I sat on his shoulders to watch the show. Now he won't let me! LOL!
Over the years we have seen many things change, some for better, some for worse. Here is my list for 2018:
Good: This was Glenn and my first year volunteering in the Warbirds area working with the Tram Tour. Glenn did announcing in the tent and I did Warbird Membership sales. Originally I signed up to be a driver, but wasn't needed. Hopefully next year. We both has a blast meeting and connecting with the people that go with the hardware. It was an amazing experience!
-An absolutely amazing number of Warbirds and current military aircraft on the ground and in the air!
-Being I spent most of my time volunteering, I really enjoyed the Trams to get around and cover as much of the grounds as I could.
-As always, the Seaplane Base is the best kept secret and a relaxing and beautiful place to visit.
Bad: I still miss the missing man formation that ALWAYS used to happen at the conclusion on the Warbird shows! To me it is one on the most important parts of the show!
-The "Drifting"... This is an air show, not a car show. I dont appreciate the noise of screeching tires drowning out everything in the area of the Ford tent. I want to hear the music of aircraft, not screeching tires!
Ugly: Like somebody mentioned earlier, old saggy tattoo ladies LOL! :)
I'm looking forward to 2019! Hopefully my schedule will allow me to volunteer again as I did this year!

We all appreciate the volunteers, I'm going to check about volunteering in in the Ultralight area. And the old lady sagging tattoos, well, thirty years ago it was probably a different story !
Bob

[John Craparo]

I'm not sure how the tram or bus drivers are trained, but those of us here at EAA HQ are told that the convention is primarily a pedestrian event. We are NEVER to use our horn or force our way through. The people on foot come first. And yes, it does get frustrating sometimes when it seems some people are purposely walking in the middle of the road to make someone wait for them. But hey, that's the way it is! No horns is the rule I was always taught. I think that's pretty universal around the grounds.

When I was fortunate enough, during the Poberezny days, to have the use of a golf cart during the show, I was asked to make sure not to pass by walkers if I had an empty seat. There were days that I even spent most of the time helping people get over to the museum from the Brown Arch. I could not make it to AV this year, but last year I was saddened to see many more golf carts and VWs running back and forth with only a driver. I tried to flag a couple of 'em down and they just whizzed by. I know some of these are now bid-on and perhaps people feel it is only for them. That is a sad state.

John
Georgetown, TX

[Mark17]

When I was fortunate enough, during the Poberezny days, to have the use of a golf cart during the show, I was asked to make sure not to pass by walkers if I had an empty seat. There were days that I even spent most of the time helping people get over to the museum from the Brown Arch. I could not make it to AV this year, but last year I was saddened to see many more golf carts and VWs running back and forth with only a driver. I tried to flag a couple of 'em down and they just whizzed by. I know some of these are now bid-on and perhaps people feel it is only for them. That is a sad state.

John
Georgetown, TX

Well said John. Truly well said. It gives me hope for our country to know that there are still people who care about other people and put others before themselves. Thanks for sharing your story and experiences. If more of us had your same viewpoint, not only EAA would be better but our Country as a whole would be better for it.

[lynnlpitts]

My wife, Sue, and I had a great time at Oshkosh! I've been attending since the old Rockford days and have witnessed plenty of changes that have been necessary to grow and exhibit the love we have for flying! One thing really stuck out on our drive from SW Missouri, the huge number of businesses advertising for skilled workers! And, at Oshkosh. the indications and talk of a growing economy spurring growth and innovation in aviation. I understand that there were problems hiring kids to work the event this year due to them having other jobs! Hope to see old friends and meet new ones next year! Another note, we love to see families and tons of kids at Oshkosh! My kids and grandkids love being there! Lynn Pitts EAA #49054

[Biyu]

My ugly comment:

when we were cheaking in at CAMP we paid seperately (NOT new for us) I explained we would be a little difficult because of that well somehow the person thought on *my* membership that I was renewing as well I could ONLY do one week pass so mine was 125 my moms was 390 (That was NOT on my card!) I’m like my membership will do both person DIDNT believe they tryied pushing a membership on my dragalong (my mom) the person COMPLETELY did NOT believe me I had to DIG OUT the website and SHOW where it said “member guest” person was SHOCKED when it worked! Like I should NOT be treated like I’m stupid AND I should not have to train people! Further there was a sign BY THE PRINTER that said “2 wristbands per membership”

I tryied the email contact they no longer care or reply —I tryied Facebook they “claimed” they were telling membership but I NEVER heard back

I HONESTLY don’t think I’m asking much wanting to know people will be correctly trained and THAT wont happen again!

Another thing (that I personally helped with) someone was getting upset with security they wanted a LEAD like WHERE to look for there car they had a rough ideal and they knew what was in the area security REFUSED to listen or care (he WASNT ASKING THEM TO FIND IT!) I took the couple minutes with my mom and I honestly hope he found it but he seemed to have a good feel just wanted to make certain —it was a few minutes there were plenty of security people (I think 3?) and there WERENT many people coming thru the gates at that time!

edit: with my first this is like my 4th time camping 7th time coming so it’s shocking to me and not remotely what I expected!

[Patrick]

Good: It's Oshkosh!
Bad: Charging lifetime members $10 to park for the Lifetime Dinner.
Ugly: Aggressive non-aviation vendors in the Big Four hangars.

[Kyle Boatright]

Ugly: Aggressive non-aviation vendors in the Big Four hangars.

Avoid eye contact. Works for me.

[streffpilot]

Avoid eye contact. Works for me.


Also a firm "No"

If you use a more polite "No Thank you" They will badger you till you are 5 booths past theirs....it is highly annoying. While I try to be very polite to everyone, the aggressive vendors got the cold and firm "No" after about noon on Monday morning......

[whattauser]

Thanks for the free lens cleaning. I won't be paying $15 for a pea-sized dab of your concoction.
Also a firm "No"

If you use a more polite "No Thank you" They will badger you till you are 5 booths past theirs....it is highly annoying. While I try to be very polite to everyone, the aggressive vendors got the cold and firm "No" after about noon on Monday morning......

[FlyingRon]

If they won't stay in their booths and stop interfering, report them to the exhibits office. They aren't supposed to do that and they've been warned in the past.

[Floatsflyer]

Ugly: Aggressive non-aviation vendors in the Big Four hangars.

I feel much sympathy for those who have been harassed by these exhibitors. Not only should they be reported for their unsavoury and unwanted behaviour, they must also be prohibited from exhibiting in any future years. We come to Oshkosh for enjoyment and relaxation, not intimidation.

I must have a face or an aura or some kinda negative vibe that tells these people, "don't f*** with this guy", because I've never been harassed or approached in any unwanted or annoying manner by any of the mattress, swing chair, slice and dice gadget, 117-way step ladders, eye glass cleaner, massage, etc. guys. Lucky me.

[Kyle Boatright]

I feel much sympathy for those who have been harassed by these exhibitors. Not only should they be reported for their unsavoury and unwanted behaviour, they must also be prohibited from exhibiting in any future years. We come to Oshkosh for enjoyment and relaxation, not intimidation.

I think in this context, "aggressive" means "Not quickly taking no as an answer." I don't think they are threatening anyone or chasing people down aisles.

IMO, it would be better for attendees to ignore those vendors while EAA takes their (the vendor's) money. Eventually, the problem will solve itself.

[Floatsflyer]

I think in this context, "aggressive" means "Not quickly taking no as an answer." I don't think they are threatening anyone or chasing people down aisles.

I believe this form of "aggressive...answer" is not threatening but it sure is definition of harassment and no one should have to tolerate it.

[CHICAGORANDY]

I must share Floats' negative aura - lol - can't say I've been made to feel even remotely uncomfortable by any of the "as seen on TV" type product vendors. I vote with my feet and my wallet. A polite NO has more than sufficed to keep them at bay.

The only ones I enjoy interacting with are the ones that offer 'Pain Relief' protocols. I always let them know I got rid of all my pains 18 years ago - she now lives in Ohio with her new husband.

[Floatsflyer]

The only ones I enjoy interacting with are the ones that offer 'Pain Relief' protocols. I always let them know I got rid of all my pains 18 years ago - she now lives in Ohio with her new husband.

Very funny, right on. If I wanted to be harrassed, I wouldn't come to Osh, I'd stay home!

[robert l]

I only had one guy approach me, he left his booth and headed straight for me. Guess I looked like a sucker! He was hawking rain gutter screen and I just happened to be interested in what he was selling so I followed him to his booth and checked out his product. Took about 5 minutes of my time. The one that gets my vote, and I'll never forget how helpful he was, was the guy in the I-Com booth. I told him I had an old I-Com AC-21, or is it CA-21, whatever, and I had lost the antenna and wondered if they still carried that part. He told me that I-Com hadn't changed the antenna mount in years and reached under the counter and pulled one out. I couldn't believe it, now I can listen while sitting at camp. Ok, now, how much do I owe you for this antique part? Nothing, what, I said, and he said, no charge. I tried to pay him something but he wouldn't hear of it. Wow, I'll never forget his generosity, but I don't remember his name. Sigh !
Bob

[FlyingRon]

A few years ago there was a guy selling those stupid "tens" units. I griped. They were throttled.

[MilitaryAttractions]

This was bad, but luckily everything turned out good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzKyvv9c-K0