Registering airplane

[bluebird19kf]

Hello, I recently bought a Kitfox fuselage and wings from somebody that had them in a barn for years. The owner doesn't know anything about them and I cannot find a serial number. My plan is to build/buy the rest of the parts to complete the aircraft. My question is, how am I going to be able to register/get an airworthiness cert without a bill of sale from the owner/kit manufacturer or a serial number. I tried contacting the fisdo office but never got to talk to anyone that could answer me. Thanks

[DaleB]

Does the guy you bought from not know how he came to have it, or who owned it before? If not -- how do you know it was even his to sell?

*I* don't care about the answer, but I'm pretty sure the FAA will.

[bluebird19kf]

He said it has been in his barn for like 10 15 years and that it was in there when he bought the house.

[Joda]

The easiest way would be to register the aircraft as "built from miscellaneous parts" rather than "built from a kit" when you fill out the Affidavit of Ownership (FAA Form 8050-88). An aircraft built from parts does not require a bill of sale. Of course, you wouldn't want to call the aircraft a "KitFox" in this scenario. Just give it a unique name for the model - "BlueBird Special", "Belchfire 500", or whatever you wish. Something unique to your aircraft. And give it your own serial number. You can make up whatever you want in this situation.

[rwanttaja]

If the airplane had been previously licensed (Does it have an N-Number on the fuselage or tail?), you will probably need to work some sort of deal relative to a bill of sale for the transfer. However, you should be able to re-use these parts in a new-construction Kitfox, to which you will assign your own serial number.

However, when it comes time to get the airplane licensed, you will need to show that the aircraft was built for education or recreation. This will probably be more of a hurdle. If the parts came from a previously-licensed aircraft, you can probably argue that those portions were already in compliance. Remember, the rules say that at least 51% of the construction was performed by an amateur...NOT that you, yourself, did the work.

You may want to contact your local FAA Flight Standard District Office (FSDO) for guidance early. They will probably put you in contact with a Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR), the person who will actually inspect the finished aircraft and approve its licensing. Talk to the person *now*, so they can tell you what proofs will be needed.

Ron Wanttaja

[bluebird19kf]

Ok, thanks guys

[WLIU]

Before you get too excited, you should know that ALL Kitfoxes are Experimental Amateur Built aircraft. So that question will not be an issue. The question will be how much of the work you will do towards making it a flying airplane. If less than 51% you can finish the ship and get it licensed and flying, but will not be able to get a Repairman's Certificate. Not a big deal. If you have not obtained the EAA kit on documenting your homebuilt, you should get that stuff.

I assume that you have some sort of bill of sale from the gentleman who gave it to you. The statement of what is sold can be "Surplus airplane parts." The price can simply be "$1 and other considerations." That will be a start.

Clean up what you have and start taking pictures. Make a builders log. Talking to a local DAR is a good idea but there should not be any problems since you have Exp-AB parts.

Best of luck,

Wes

[martymayes]

My question is, how am I going to be able to register/get an airworthiness cert without a bill of sale from the owner/kit manufacturer or a serial number. I tried contacting the fisdo office but never got to talk to anyone that could answer me. Thanks

Get a copy of AC 20-27G https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-27G.pdf

Follow the checklist and work so you can show major portion was fabricated and assembled by amateur builders. Don't need a bill of sale, can make up your own serial number and you can get a repairman certificate without personally doing 51% of the work.

The old plane in the barn / basement. How come I never find those?? I've never found the guy with the boat in his basement either.

[Dana]

Does it look like an airplane that had been flown and then disassembled or does it look like a kit that was never completed? That will affect how you need to proceed.

[Frank Giger]

Don't over complicate things.

One doesn't need a bill of sale from the kit manufacturer. One needs a bill of sale from the guy who sold it to you. You don't need a bill of sale from the factory when one buys a new car, do you? The last guy is fine.

C'mon, it's just pieces, and has never had an N-Number. The FAA isn't going to do a title search because there is no title to search. The chance of a lien is zero (which is why one does a title search when buying a completed, used aircraft).

You'll need to buy a full set of plans from Kitfox anyhow, so if you want a warm and fuzzy, use them.

Serial numbers are determined by the builder anyway, so why worry?

[1600vw]

You say he owns the house, but does he own the barn?

[Joda]

One doesn't need a bill of sale from the kit manufacturer. One needs a bill of sale from the guy who sold it to you. You don't need a bill of sale from the factory when one buys a new car, do you? The last guy is fine.

Frank,

This is not correct. If a person registers a "KIT" and is the original applicant (that is, the aircraft has never been registered before), the FAA will require a chain of ownership all the way back to the kit manufacturer. In this case, the applicant MUST have a bill of sale from the kit manufacturer. If buying the kit from a previous owner (who never registered the kit with the FAA) the new purchaser had better get the bill of sale that was issued by the kit manufacturer to that original purchaser, AND a bill of sale from that person to the new owner, or the registration will not be completed. It has been this way for many years. This is ONLY when registering a "kit". An aircraft that was assembled from "miscellaneous parts" needs no bill of sale from anyone.

Once the aircraft has been registered, whether completed or not, any subsequent sale will only require a bill of sale from the registered owner. But for that initial registration of a KIT, a bill of sale from the kit manufacturer is required, along with bills of sale from any intermediate owners.

[Dana]

So don't register it as a kit but as a scratch build with some used parts. As I understand it, the only advantage of registering it as a kit is that (if it's an approved kit) you don't have to document the percentage done for the so-called 51% rule.

[PNelson]

As far as I know all Kitfox have the serial numbers stamped somewhere on the airframe (I built and own a model 5 Kitfox). You should contact the factory to ask them where the s/n is located on the different models. Do you know what model of Kitfox it is? The factory may be able to help you with information about the original purchase.

If the plane has been previously built and has an airworthiness certificate then it only needs to be rebuilt and reregistered. You can't build an existing kit plane again. You should be able to find the plane in the FAA database.

If the aircraft was never finished you can do this and become "the builder". Kitfoxes are approved kits and meet the 51% rule and it doesn't matter how many people work on it, the person that finishes the plane can submit their name as the builder. I was the second owner of my unfinished Kitfox, but I am the builder.

Good luck on this. Kitfox are great planes and there is a great forum called Team Kitfox. You can get most of the parts for the models, as well as a builders manual from the factory.