RV 7A Maintenance

[skyfixer8]

I am doing a Condition Inspection on a friends RV 7A ( he is not the builder and not a holder of repairman cert, yes, I am an A&P in case someone was wondering). As he has no manual for the plane, I am trying to find out how to jack this beast especially the nose so i can do the caster inspection . The checklist he has given me does not have this information.

Bill L.

[Timgineer]

I am doing a Condition Inspection on a friends RV 7A ( he is not the builder and not a holder of repairman cert, yes, I am an A&P in case someone was wondering). As he has no manual for the plane, I am trying to find out how to jack this beast especially the nose so i can do the caster inspection . The checklist he has given me does not have this information.

Bill L.

With the cowling off, you can use an engine hoist or on the other end use the tail tie down ring.




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[skyfixer8]

Thanks Tim. Was wondering about tail tie down but wasn t sure. Had to ask

[Marc Zeitlin]

I am doing a Condition Inspection on a friends RV 7A ( he is not the builder and not a holder of repairman cert, yes, I am an A&P in case someone was wondering). As he has no manual for the plane, I am trying to find out how to jack this beast especially the nose so i can do the caster inspection . The checklist he has given me does not have this information.There are threaded jackpoints in the wings, about 2/3 outboard.

See:

https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/How-to-jack-up-an-RV.pdf

https://bogertaviation.com/products/rv-jack-pads

https://antisplataero.com/products/quality-jack-points

On the taildragger versions, the design is less than optimal due to the angle of the jack on the wing (unless you substantially raise the tail first).

Here's a different solution:

http://www.wintermotorsports.com/jackpoints

[skyfixer8]

One more question for RV experts out there. I know on Grumman tiger and Tecnam planes I have worked on, there is a "pull factor" on the nose gear swivel system. Anyone out there know if that applies to the RV 7A ? Wish there was a manual for this plane.

[Kyle Boatright]

One more question for RV experts out there. I know on Grumman tiger and Tecnam planes I have worked on, there is a "pull factor" on the nose gear swivel system. Anyone out there know if that applies to the RV 7A ? Wish there was a manual for this plane.

There is a specified breakout force. 22 lbs at the axle.

[skyfixer8]

Thanks kyle

[Frank Giger]

Wish there was a manual for this plane.

Welcome to the world of homebuilts.

Few have manuals like certified aircraft; and anything from the seller of the kit is actually just a recommendation.

[Sam Buchanan]

Wish there was a manual for this plane.

The assembly manual that is included with the RV-7A kit has detailed instructions for adjusting the breakout force of the nose gear. Construction drawings, manuals and associated documents can be purchased on a USB flash drive from Vans for $10, every owner and A&P should have this:

http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1522985153-16-348&browse=videos&product=fd_plans

These documents are not merely recommendations, they are the 'RV Bible'. You also need a complete set of Service Bulletins:

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv7.htm

[Frank Giger]

Very gently I'm going to differ from your statement, Sam, as it was too specific, and we're speaking to an A&P.

The build instructions for any aircraft are in fact recommendations - very serious ones - but the builder is free to deviate from them as they wish. The wisdom of this is usually suspect, but it's the truth of the matter. And the FAA couldn't care less if the builder did so.*

Likewise, Service Bulletins aren't binding in Experimental Aircraft like AD's are in certified one.

Again, one would be foolish to disregard them, but there is nothing compelling a builder/owner from following them.

* Naturally, if one is building an E-LSA, then everything has to be the same to obtain and keep the category.

[skyfixer8]

Frank, yes, I be an A&P, but been working with all types of "homebuilt" planes for years. Be as specific as you want.I can handle it. RV 7A i am working now will be done right.

[Sam Buchanan]

Very gently I'm going to differ from your statement, Sam, as it was too specific, and we're speaking to an A&P.

The build instructions for any aircraft are in fact recommendations - very serious ones - but the builder is free to deviate from them as they wish. The wisdom of this is usually suspect, but it's the truth of the matter. And the FAA couldn't care less if the builder did so.*

Likewise, Service Bulletins aren't binding in Experimental Aircraft like AD's are in certified one.

Again, one would be foolish to disregard them, but there is nothing compelling a builder/owner from following them.

* Naturally, if one is building an E-LSA, then everything has to be the same to obtain and keep the category.

I am cognizant of how FARs apply to aircraft with an Experimental Airworthiness Certificate. But the documents I referenced should be considered essential by any A&P (or non-builder owner) who needs RV documentation in the course of either a thorough Condition Inspection or repairs.

RV aircraft have 35 years of highly engineered design and maintenance baked into their documentation that will address any question raised in regard to care and feeding of these planes. The RV documentation is thorough enough to make an A&P who is accustomed to the certificated paper trail feel comfortable when performing maintenance.

[Frank Giger]

I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to clarify, Sam!

Skyfixer has dealt with Experimentals, so he knows a service bulletin isn't an AD, and therefore shouldn't necessarily stop a Condition Inspection.

What we obviously don't know is the quality of the build or the owner. The aircraft could have been meticulously assembled by the plans, and the owner a stickler for ensuring that all Bulletins are applied.

I've had an A&P look at my aircraft and almost recoil in horror over pop rivets, non-aviation hardware, and other features of my aircraft. It was actually kind of fun. I thought he was going to faint when I pointed out that the single ignition system on the VW engine is driven by Harley Davidson motorcycle parts. He shook his head and walked away when I mentioned that the fuel bobber wire was actually a piece of straightened out coat hangar.

OTOH, I know of a certified aircraft that, when it passes on to someone else's ownership, is going to need to be basically stripped down and rebuilt for all the *cough* casual maintenance performed by the owner.

[Sam Buchanan]

Skyfixer asked for technical info so he could complete some work on a RV-7A. The intent of my post was to point him toward a comprehensive and valuable resource that would assist with the inspection and maintenance, I hope he (and the RV-7A owner) found the links useful.

[keen9]

You probably are already aware being an A&P, but if you use an engine hoist, lift via the engine mount, not the engine. I would guess that its easier to pull the tail down with the aft tie-down though. I built an RV with a more proper gear configuration (tailwheel:D)

Also, the threaded portions in the wing are not true jack points. They are the wing tie-downs. Only implication is that there is no additional skin thickness around them. The structure the tiedown or jack point goes into is directly attached to the wing spar, but there is a gap between the tiedown and the skin. Van's has suggested that these are the best locations for jacking (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwjjucv4i67aAhVLQq0KHXcgChYQFgheMAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vansaircraft.com%2Fpdf%2FHow-to-jack-up-an-RV.pdf& usg=AOvVaw3QBvJNE0Vo0b6VmHL1yC65).

A search on google will find you many methods to use the tie-down as a jack point. A bolt works fine if you have large aircraft jacks with a cupped piston.

[DaleB]

* Naturally, if one is building an E-LSA, then everything has to be the same to obtain and keep the category.
I'm going to equally gently differ with you here, Frank. At least the "and keep" part. An E-LSA only has to conform at the time the airworthiness certificate is issued. After that, anything that does not take the airplane outside of LSA limits is fair game.

[Joda]

An E-LSA only has to conform at the time the airworthiness certificate is issued. After that, anything that does not take the airplane outside of LSA limits is fair game.

You are correct Dale. An ELSA must be kept within the definition of LSA as called out in 14 CFR Part 1.1. But it does NOT have to be kept strictly in compliance with kit manufacturer recommendations. Only an SLSA is required to completely comply with manufacturer specifications and recommendations. This is the reason many SLSAs get converted to ELSA, so that the owner can install equipment without manufacturer approval.

[Frank Giger]

LOL, I got my LSA's mixed - thanks for the correction!

[skyfixer8]

Okay, RV owners. How long does it usually take for your plane to go through a condition inspection. The RV 7A i have in my shop is turning into a PITA. Example, had to pull all cylinders because of cracks, and other problems , and the original builder had riveted all baffles to the engine with cherry max. Spent most of the morning drilling them out so I could get the cylinders off. Besides other headaches from the original builder, going smooth, but just wondering how long the average no fix inspection usually takes. First time on an RV here.

Bill L

[Marc Zeitlin]

Okay, RV owners. How long does it usually take for your plane to go through a condition inspection. The RV 7A i have in my shop is turning into a PITA. Example, had to pull all cylinders because of cracks, and other problems , and the original builder had riveted all baffles to the engine with cherry max. Spent most of the morning drilling them out so I could get the cylinders off. Besides other headaches from the original builder, going smooth, but just wondering how long the average no fix inspection usually takes. First time on an RV here.RV-7's have a zillion screws and take about 2 - 4 hours to take apart, and another 2 - 4 hours to put together, assuming you can get everything to line up. That doesn't include the time to actually look at everything, but you do get to look at a lot while unscrewing it. I figure on 10 - 16 hours, including paperwork, logbook review, write-up, and the actual eyeballing everything. If the owner actually wants work done on the plane (oil change, tire change, brake pads, brake fluid, whatever) then obviously add that time in too.

My $0.02.

[keen9]

the original builder had riveted all baffles to the engine with cherry max. Spent most of the morning drilling them out so I could get the cylinders off.

What does this even mean? The baffles are installed on the engine with screws. How could they be riveted?

[skyfixer8]

Sides are attached with screws to cylinders, however, front baffles riveted to sides and rear baffles same way on left and right side of engine. Had to remove rivets in order to pull baffles off for cylinder removal

[Sam Buchanan]

What does this even mean? The baffles are installed on the engine with screws. How could they be riveted?

I'm 'baffled' by this as well.....yes, the sides are riveted to the front and rear, but they are joined in the middle with screws (cleco clamps in the photo) so each 'half' can be removed. I didn't drill out any rivets when I did an engine overhaul on my RV-6 O-320.

7127

[Kyle Boatright]

RV-6 owner here. 10-12 hours of focused time to do the inspection. Add 50% for the loss of efficiency due to drop in visitors, potty breaks, interest net surfing on the phone, and the like.

[skyfixer8]

Thank you Sam. If you add a baffle attached to the center line of engine from front to back, you will have an idea of what I had to take apart to pull cylinders. New owner is trying to contact builder about this, but no luck yet.

[Sam Buchanan]

Thank you Sam. If you add a baffle attached to the center line of engine from front to back, you will have an idea of what I had to take apart to pull cylinders. New owner is trying to contact builder about this, but no luck yet.

That is most definitely a roll-your-own mod, don't know why it was done.

[Frank Giger]

Sounds like a classic case of over-building something.

I think we've all done it.