Flight Review

[malexander]

My daughter has her CFI, CFII, and MEII. I was told at a meeting last night, that she can't do my flight review because she's my daughter/blood relative with the same last name.
Is this true, or m I being fed a line of BS?

[Auburntsts]

Total BS. There's a relatively new Private Pilot over on AOPA that got her instruction from her CFI husband. Next time ask these "experts" for a reg reference.

[Floatsflyer]

Total BS. There's a relatively new Private Pilot over on AOPA that got her instruction from her CFI husband. Next time ask these "experts" for a reg reference.

You're mixing apples and oranges here. The OP is asking about a "flight review" which is a test and you're providing an answer to him based on "instruction", two completely different things. Did the CFI husband administer the flight test as well?

I have no idea if this is a reg or BS but logic, common sense and fair play tells me that it should be to avoid any appearance or practice of impropriety and favouritism.

[DRGT]

​I have no idea if this is a reg or BS but logic, common sense and fair play tells me that it should be to avoid any appearance or practice of impropriety and favouritism.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree more. If my daughter was a MEII, I would trust her more than anyone in the world to provide me a complete, thorough flight review. Flying is an activity that has many life-threatening hazards. I take the flight review seriously. This is the opportunity to spot not only rust spots, but to identify bad habits and areas for improvement. Who better to do the flight review than someone heavily invested in positive outcome for every flight.

I recognize that I am fortunate enough to have a daughter who loves me and would be critical enough to do everything she could to ensure I will continue to be a good grandparent for a long time to come.

Remember - the flight review is not a test. You can not fail. The primary purpose is to identify area for improvement. Who better to do that than a love one?

[Floatsflyer]

​I have no idea if this is a reg or BS but logic, common sense and fair play tells me that it should be to avoid any appearance or practice of impropriety and favouritism.


I couldn't disagree more. If my daughter was a MEII, I would trust her more than anyone in the world to provide me a complete, thorough flight review. Flying is an activity that has many life-threatening hazards. I take the flight review seriously. This is the opportunity to spot not only rust spots, but to identify bad habits and areas for improvement. Who better to do the flight review than someone heavily invested in positive outcome for every flight.

I recognize that I am fortunate enough to have a daughter who loves me and would be critical enough to do everything she could to ensure I will continue to be a good grandparent for a long time to come.

Remember - the flight review is not a test. You can not fail. The primary purpose is to identify area for improvement. Who better to do that than a love one?

You can disagree all you want, that is your right. But your reasoning is tantamount to nonsense based on seriously misplaced emotions and irrelevant familial relationships which only serves to illustrate that my view is more likely the one that should prevail.

"Flight review is not a test". Semantics! It is indeed an examination of your PROFICIENCY which will be and is quantifiable and qualitative. It requires an unbiased third party to make an evaluation.

[malexander]

You're mixing apples and oranges here. The OP is asking about a "flight review" which is a test and you're providing an answer to him based on "instruction", two completely different things. Did the CFI husband administer the flight test as well?

I have no idea if this is a reg or BS but logic, common sense and fair play tells me that it should be to avoid any appearance or practice of impropriety and favouritism.

No, no, no, I'm referring to a BFR.

She is pretty new at it. But I would think that if it were the case, I would think that the examiner would have asked something about it during the oral for the ratings.

The main reason for the question is this guy's 2nd cousin is a CFI. He (CFI) told my neighbor that he couldn't do his BFR for the reason I stated above. I sort of have a clue as to why he couldn't/wouldn't do it. <sigh>

[Bill Greenwood]

I would bet $25 that there is no legal reason why a cfi cant do a flight review or any other test that they are qualified for just because they are a relative. I think someone is feeding you a line of bs, maybe their prejudice or just that they are uninformed. What kind of "meeting" did you hear this info? Let the person provide the relevant FAR to prove his point, if he can.

[malexander]

I would bet $25 that there is no legal reason why a cfi cant do a flight review or any other test that they are qualified for just because they are a relative. I think someone is feeding you a line of bs, maybe their prejudice or just that they are uninformed. What kind of "meeting" did you hear this info? Let the person provide the relevant FAR to prove his point, if he can.


I live on a private airport, and we were having a board meeting. One of the members told me this because he knew my daughter had just recently gotten all her ratings.

Oh, and I think some of it may be a bit of jealousy.:)

[Joda]

There is no regulation that would prohibit a "blood relative" from giving a flight review to a pilot. As long as the person giving the review is a properly certificated and rated instructor, the flight review will be valid.

[Auburntsts]

You're mixing apples and oranges here. The OP is asking about a "flight review" which is a test and you're providing an answer to him based on "instruction", two completely different things. Did the CFI husband administer the flight test as well?

I have no idea if this is a reg or BS but logic, common sense and fair play tells me that it should be to avoid any appearance or practice of impropriety and favouritism.


No im not. A flight review is not a test-- in fact IAW 61.56, the tasks performed and how well they are to be performed during the flight portion, other than having to be at least an hour, are totally at the discretion of the CFI. I'm guessing you're thinking check ride. So I stand by my statement--it's BS. Show me by reg where it says I'm wrong.

[Floatsflyer]

No im not. A flight review is not a test-- in fact IAW 61.56, the tasks performed and how well they are to be performed during the flight portion, other than having to be at least an hour, are totally at the discretion of the CFI. I'm guessing you're thinking check ride. So I stand by my statement--it's BS. Show me by reg where it says I'm wrong.

I'm not thinking of anything except the OP's question. You're going off on tangents that have zero to do with what the OP is asking. So, yes you are still talking apples and oranges--flight review vs. instruction--as per your previous example which is irrelevant to the issue being explored. As far as "flight review is not a test", please refer to post #5.

I already said I have no idea if there's a reg or not. You show me a reg that say's you're right.

[martymayes]

My daughter has her CFI, CFII, and MEII. I was told at a meeting last night, that she can't do my flight review because she's my daughter/blood relative with the same last name.
Is this true, or m I being fed a line of BS?

The latter.

[malexander]

Thank you all for the replies. I figured it was all BS, but then again, I really DON'T know all the regs.

[Auburntsts]

I'm not thinking of anything except the OP's question. You're going off on tangents that have zero to do with what the OP is asking. So, yes you are still talking apples and oranges--flight review vs. instruction--as per your previous example which is irrelevant to the issue being explored. As far as "flight review is not a test", please refer to post #5.

I already said I have no idea if there's a reg or not. You show me a reg that say's you're right.

Instruction is instruction regardless of why it’s being given: flight review or for a rating/endorsement makes zero difference. The same rules apply. Just because you don’t agree with my example doesn’t invalidate it.

[DRGT]

You can disagree all you want, that is your right. But your reasoning is tantamount to nonsense based on seriously misplaced emotions and irrelevant familial relationships which only serves to illustrate that my view is more likely the one that should prevail.

"Flight review is not a test". Semantics! It is indeed an examination of your PROFICIENCY which will be and is quantifiable and qualitative. It requires an unbiased third party to make an evaluation.

Reread FAR 61.56. It specifies exactly what a constitutes a flight review. As outlined in the FAR, there are "tests" that can substitute for the flight review. Those tests are not mandatory nor required. In fact the FAR clearly states the review is flight training. The FAR specifies what this training must include. It sets no standards as to pilot performance. The instructor is left to sign off the student has successfully completed the training.

No matter the pilot's proficiency level, the FAR (and correctly so IMHO), mandates every pilot must take the training. As we know, a good pilot is always learning.

[Floatsflyer]

Reread FAR 61.56. It specifies exactly what a constitutes a flight review. As outlined in the FAR, there are "tests" that can substitute for the flight review. Those tests are not mandatory nor required. In fact the FAR clearly states the review is flight training. The FAR specifies what this training must include. It sets no standards as to pilot performance. The instructor is left to sign off the student has successfully completed the training.

No matter the pilot's proficiency level, the FAR (and correctly so IMHO), mandates every pilot must take the training. As we know, a good pilot is always learning.

This missive and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee. It has zero to do with the OP's question.

[martymayes]

"Flight review is not a test". Semantics! It is indeed an examination of your PROFICIENCY which will be and is quantifiable and qualitative. It requires an unbiased third party to make an evaluation.

A flight review is a non jeopardy event. There is no pass / fail outcome. It's an instructional period and there are no restrictions of any kind regarding the personal relationship between person administering the flight review and person receiving the flight review.

[Floatsflyer]

....there are no restrictions of any kind regarding the personal relationship between person administering the flight review and person receiving the flight review.

If that is correct, I am still of the opinion that it should be administered by an impartial/unbiased 3rd party.

[martymayes]

If that is correct, I am still of the opinion that it should be administered by an impartial/unbiased 3rd party.

Being related does not mean one can not conduct an unbiased flight review.

How about the two BFF CFI's that decide to give each other a flight review? Are they being partial as their critique of the other may have a direct impact on their own event?

[CarlOrton]

Bingo, Marty; How many belong to a flying club, chapter, or any other arrangement with a CFI as a member; I'd bet most of y'all are pretty good friends, yet I'm sure you would still use him/her to administer a flight review. If for ease of scheduling, if nothing else. Taking Floats' assertion to the extreme, I'd venture that you'd have to find a new CFI every 2 years because the prior CFI could be said to have some type of continuing relation, which might lead to bias.

And yes, my son is a CFII; and, no, I've never used him for a flight review; he's always on the road, but that's the only reason.

[DaleB]

If that is correct, I am still of the opinion that it should be administered by an impartial/unbiased 3rd party.
Your opinion is noted, and of course you're free to pick an impartial and unbiased third party to do your instruction and flight reviews. Of course if you pay them, it could be construed as affecting that impartiality.

For the rest of the world, but the words "relative", "spouse", "son", "daughter", "family" appear nowhere in Part 61. There is nothing in the regs that prevent a qualified flight instructor from providing instruction, endorsements or flight reviews for anyone including friends or family members. If you believe otherwise, you can certainly read and search through the regs yourself and see if you can find something that supports your opinion. I couldn't.

[SkyFlyerPilot]

Read CFR 61.195. I find no limitations about working with family members. As a mater of fact I would consider your "best buddy" CFI similar to a family member. Any CFI can shortcut the system. It happens more than we would like unfortunately. If a CFI shortcuts the training/evaluation and signs the endorsement, it doesn't do the pilot any faver in the long run. I once had a student (and long time friend) that needed an IPC. He was in his 70's. At over 60 hours towards the IPC, in his own plan, I told him it wasn't going to happen unless he met or exceeded the standards. He commented that he was very good with the autopilot and asked me if I would sign him off. I asked in return, "Do you want me to burn my CFI certificate?" He got the message.
Again, any CFI or DPE can shortcut the system but at what cost to the recipient of the endorsement.

I also agreed that a Flight Review is not a test. It is only a observation that the pilot is still safe and makes good decisions. The pilot cannot fail a Flight Review. It's up to the CFI to put his/her certificate on the line with an endorsement.

[martymayes]

Taking Floats' assertion to the extreme

Then you shouldn't use an AME you have a relationship with, should not have a relative do an annual on your plane and on and on. If the FAA didn't think people were trustworthy and responsible, they would not be able to issue any certificates!


And yes, my son is a CFII; and, no, I've never used him for a flight review; he's always on the road, but that's the only reason.

I hope for the sake of you both, the opportunity to do that comes up soon. Nothing like sharing a flight on that level with a family member!

[Bill Berson]

If the CFI doesn't sign the logbook, then the pilot "failed" that review. (Seems to me)

[martymayes]

If the CFI doesn't sign the logbook, then the pilot "failed" that review. (Seems to me)

CFI should always sign logbook, Options are 1) successful completion of flight review, or; 2) Instructional flight

A pilot may need 1-10 (or more) instructional flights before successfully completing the flight review, just depends on circumstances.

[Frank Giger]

LOL.

You have raised a smart kid.

"I am not going to bust my dad in a flight review, so lemme come up with a reason not to have the chance."

One can't "fail" a flight review, one can only be refused a sign off. It seems like semantics, but it's not. If one busts a check ride, there are consequences. It's recorded, and the pilot's certification is in jeopardy.

We had a long inactive pilot attempt to become current by jumping right back into a flight review. He had a lot more rust than he thought, and the CFI logged it as flight training, but no flight review verbiage. The pilot agreed with the assessment, and a couple more hours were all that were needed.

Of course the "work around" is to get the CFI to log a busted flight review as training with the FAA, do some online classes, attend a seminar, and be signed off via the FAST program.

Frank "I'm not saying it's right, just legal" Giger

[Joda]

If the CFI doesn't sign the logbook, then the pilot "failed" that review. (Seems to me)

Marty is correct. The flight instructor is required to make and sign a logbook entry for any flight in which flight instruction is given. That flight may have started out to be a flight review, but may end up being just dual instruction. More flights may be necessary before the instructor feels comfortable in making the flight review endorsement. However, nowhere will a flight instructor ever make a logbook entry stating that a pilot "failed" a flight review. (At least they shouldn't, and if they do they are not doing things properly.) There is no "failure" mode unless the customer fails to show up for any additional instruction the instructor feels may be necessary. And even then there would be no record of the "failure". The flight review would simply be incomplete.

[Floatsflyer]

Taking Floats' assertion to the extreme, I'd venture that you'd have to find a new CFI every 2 years because the prior CFI could be said to have some type of continuing relation, which might lead to bias.

Carl, let's not muddy the waters and get carried away with ridiculous notions. The OP was ONLY referencing blood relatives as flight reviewers, NOT friends, flying club members, diaper delivery guys, baristas or anybody else.

[Floatsflyer]

Your opinion is noted, and of course you're free to pick an impartial and unbiased third party to do your instruction and flight reviews. Of course if you pay them, it could be construed as affecting that impartiality.

For the rest of the world, but the words "relative", "spouse", "son", "daughter", "family" appear nowhere in Part 61. There is nothing in the regs that prevent a qualified flight instructor from providing instruction, endorsements or flight reviews for anyone including friends or family members. If you believe otherwise, you can certainly read and search through the regs yourself and see if you can find something that supports your opinion. I couldn't.

Yes, as you noted and as I've been saying all along, it is MY OPINION. An opinion is an expression of thought or of an idea. It is NOT a statement of fact requiring evidence based support or is it a belief. An OPINION does not require "something that supports(it)." So stop wasting your time searching the regs trying to disprove a point that I am NOT making!!! Go do something else that will improve the human race.

[Bill Berson]

If you need to take a review a second time by law, then you "failed" to pass that review the first time. (as I see it)
(I know how it works)

It would be possible to require a review that doesn't require any pass/not pass approval signature.
Just: "review completed this date".
Reviews were not required when I got my certificate. Back then there was about 800,000 pilots.
Now 500,000 or something. Active pilots probably 100,000. Some aircraft are hard to get reviews: Single seat, odd type, etc.
Other pilots are going to ultralights for no review. I know several that went to ultralight.

[martymayes]

If you need to take a review a second time by law, then you "failed" to pass that review the first time. (as I see it)
(I know how it works)

Nothing says a flight review has to be accomplished in a single flight, so I don't know what law is being referenced.

As far as I know, the only time a second review is required by law is 24 months following the first review. That doesn't mean the applicant failed the review the first time; it just means the first review reached the end of it's valid period.



Reviews were not required when I got my certificate. Back then there was about 800,000 pilots.
Now 500,000 or something. Active pilots probably 100,000. Some aircraft are hard to get reviews: Single seat, odd type, etc.
Other pilots are going to ultralights for no review. I know several that went to ultralight.

The flight review is a fairly recent addition to the regs, codified in 1974 (44 yrs ago). That year there were ~730,000 pilots (~6% held a CFI certificate). In 1980, the pilot population peaked around 825,000 (~7% of those held a CFI certificate). In the ~35 yrs since the pilot population peaked, there has been a steady decline. Hard to pin that on any single cause (pretty sure it's not because of the flight review reg), shift in cultural behavior is a good a reason as any.

[DaleB]

Yes, as you noted and as I've been saying all along, it is MY OPINION. An opinion is an expression of thought or of an idea. It is NOT a statement of fact requiring evidence based support or is it a belief. An OPINION does not require "something that supports(it)." So stop wasting your time searching the regs trying to disprove a point that I am NOT making!!!
It's not a waste of time as long as someone learns something, and at least I did. Besides, you did say back in post #11, and I quote, "I already said I have no idea if there's a reg or not. You show me a reg that say's you're right." I was simply trying to provide information for which you yourself asked.


Go do something else that will improve the human race.
Right back at ya, buddy. I have and continue to do so, thanks. Relax, have a beer, we're all friends here.

Regarding my opinion of your opinion... you opine (paraphrasing here) that flight reviews (and whatever) should be done by impartial third parties, not relatives. My opinion is that who gives the instruction, examination or sign-off is immaterial. How they do it is everything. Just like having a close friend or relative do a condition or annual inspection on your airplane. If it's pencil-whipped, it's worse than worthless -- it's dangerous, and probably illegal. If it's done to the standards to which it should be done, then who does it matters not.

[Buster747]

Good discussion, the only thing I can add is that “I sure am glad you guys don’t have anything to do with mine.”
This is just crazy arguing over.

[malexander]

When my daughter flies with my brother or me, she and he/I learn from each other. She's relatively new at it, and my bro & I have had our PPL since 1977. She shows us how to use all the neat electronic gadgets and we show her some of the "seat-of-the-pants" stuff that we learned from our CFI way back when. Really makes for some cool family bonding while we're at it.

[Bill Berson]

Nothing says a flight review has to be accomplished in a single flight, so I don't know what law is being referenced.

As far as I know, the only time a second review is required by law is 24 months following the first review. That doesn't mean the applicant failed the review the first time; it just means the first review reached the end of it's valid period.



The flight review is a fairly recent addition to the regs, codified in 1974 (44 yrs ago). That year there were ~730,000 pilots (~6% held a CFI certificate). In 1980, the pilot population peaked around 825,000 (~7% of those held a CFI certificate). In the ~35 yrs since the pilot population peaked, there has been a steady decline. Hard to pin that on any single cause (pretty sure it's not because of the flight review reg), shift in cultural behavior is a good a reason as any.


Are you saying a pilot seeking continuous privileges is not required to take a second flight review if the first flight was found not acceptable?
It looks like you are saying the pilot must take as many flights as the instructor feels are needed. Or seek another instructor.
As I mentioned, some pilots I know used the only available light sport instructor available in the state, and after bad relations decided to quit flying. Hard to know what caused aviation decline because no one queries exiting pilots opinion, as far as I know.

[martymayes]

It looks like you are saying the pilot must take as many flights as the instructor feels are needed. Or seek another instructor. That is correct.

[Joda]

Nothing says a flight review has to be accomplished in a single flight....

This statement right here is key. Everybody thinks of a flight review as a single flight with an instructor. And yes, many times that's how it works out. However, there are many times when a single flight isn't enough. Just because more than one flight is necessary doesn't mean that the pilot "failed" the flight review. It just means that the review isn't completed yet. Unlike a practical test, where there are specific actions called out in the regulations that must be followed when someone fails, the flight review has no such consequences. Nowhere in the regulations does it mention what to do is someone "fails" a flight review. There is no failure mode. The pilot simply needs to complete a review. There are minimums that must be met, but no maximum. The sad part is, most pilots want to just do the minimum and call it good, and they get upset when they are required to do more. But the truth is, the instructor won't require more unless it's needed for safety. So rather than being upset, the pilot should be grateful. Yeah, I know.....

[CarlOrton]

The FAASTeam program WINGS provides the means to maintain currency, and therefore satisfy the intent of BFR (BFR isn't so much to force a review as it is to keep pilots current) whereby a pilot takes 3 instructional webinars, classes, etc., for which the FAA awards credit (like a number of the EAA webinars), then has 3 flight activities where said pilot works on standard items like slow flight, stalls, etc., and as a result of completing the 3 flight activities (in ignorance, I *think* these could be combined in a massive 3 hr flight), said pilot has deferred the need for a BFR.

https://www.faasafety.gov/WINGS/pppinfo/requirementDetails.aspx

[Bill Berson]

This statement right here is key. Everybody thinks of a flight review as a single flight with an instructor. And yes, many times that's how it works out. However, there are many times when a single flight isn't enough. Just because more than one flight is necessary doesn't mean that the pilot "failed" the flight review. It just means that the review isn't completed yet. Unlike a practical test, where there are specific actions called out in the regulations that must be followed when someone fails, the flight review has no such consequences. Nowhere in the regulations does it mention what to do is someone "fails" a flight review. There is no failure mode. The pilot simply needs to complete a review. There are minimums that must be met, but no maximum. The sad part is, most pilots want to just do the minimum and call it good, and they get upset when they are required to do more. But the truth is, the instructor won't require more unless it's needed for safety. So rather than being upset, the pilot should be grateful. Yeah, I know.....

This is interesting stuff that I didn't know. I never failed a review yet, but getting older, so who knows.
So regarding "the minimums that must be met", is the pilot allowed to know in advance what these required minimums are?

[CarlOrton]

Bill, I would assume it's the same as the WINGS program where the goal is to perform at/above the PTS.

[Sam Buchanan]

It is amazing what Googling "Flight Review Standards" will pull up: ;)

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/media/flight_review.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/1028650

https://download.aopa.org/epilot/2007/sa03.pdf

[martymayes]

I never failed a review yet,

That's because it's impossible to fail.

[redfire122]

My daughter has her CFI, CFII, and MEII. I was told at a meeting last night, that she can't do my flight review because she's my daughter/blood relative with the same last name.
Is this true, or m I being fed a line of BS?

Speaking as a CFI there are no regulations to prevent your daughter from giving you a flight review based on relationships.
My only suggestion is before the flight let your daughter know that she can speak openly about any deficiencies she may observe. During the review the two of you will be switching roles and she will become the mentor. Have a fantastic flight!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bill Berson]

That's because it's impossible to fail.

That's just semantics. I am sorry that I read this new stuff that is now required. Far worse than any check ride. I may give up and go ultralight like the others. I don't care what the FAA intended, this is a check ride.

"a. Unsatisfactory Completion of the Review. The FAA does not intend the flight reviewto be a check ride. If the review is not satisfactory, the CFI should log the flight as “dualinstruction given” and not as a “failure.” The CFI should then recommend additional training inthe areas of the review that were unsatisfactory. A pilot who does not receive an endorsement fora satisfactory flight review may continue to exercise the privileges of his or her certificate,provided that a period of 24 calendar-months has not elapsed since the pilot completed at leastone of the requirements that satisfies the flight review event as specified in § 61.56. "

[WLIU]

No new stuff is required. Most of the posters are making it harder than it really is. The flight review is intended to have you demonstrate that you are a competent airman. That can be done in a whole bunch of ways. Last month I decided to see what flying a Cirrus would be like. Studied the flight manual, spent an hour going over "stuff" with the CFI on the ground. Turned out that in addition to Cirrus airplane info, the CFI knows some of the pilots that I know, so the hour was partly technical and partly social. But the CFI also got to size me up during that hour and calculate expectations for when we got in the airplane. A good Chief Pilot, and I hope a good CFI, should be able to initially evaluate a new pilot in about 5 minutes.

So we got in the airplane, I learned how the glass panel worked, and we launched. The CFI got to watch me work into the flight characteristics of an unfamiliar ship. Which is to say he could see me working to stay ahead of the airplane as I started to climb the learning curve of competency in that airplane. So the CFI got satisfied that I was a competent airman and I got to try out a new airplane. Worked for both of us.

I will suggest that the best BFR is where you learn something new while demonstrating your current skills. Which is to say go do an intro to acro hour or something new and challenging. Once upon a time I called up a well known aerobatic CFI and asked "Hey, could we do an hour in your Pitts for a BFR?" Amusingly, the response was "Well no one has ever asked me that before, but I don't see why not." The guy pulled the throttle back at the top of a loop and said over the intercom "So what do you do now?" A well spent hour and BFR.

All of which adds up to just go fly. It is not a flight test for a certificate or rating. If a CFI acts like it is, walk away and hire a CFI who will make it an enjoyable learning experience. Its your $$ and time. Negotiate a constructive session that improves your skills.

Best of luck,

Wes

[Bill Berson]

New stuff is required in every new Advisory Circular. See link post 41 for 37 page AC.

For example, from AC
b.
c. Reducing GA Accidents. The FAA added important GAJSC (see chapter 2.1) findingsand recommendations to AC 61-98 pertaining to GA accidents.
(1) GA pilots should become aware of this information and apply it to their personalcurrency program action plans.
(2) CFIs should apply this information to their training and evaluation action plans.1-6. ENGLISH PROFICIENCY.


GA Pilots. The FAA supports initiatives designed to encourage voluntary compliancewith existing regulations and to maintain and further improve the GA safety record with aminimum of new regulations. As a result, the FAA has determined that updated advisoryguidance is necessary with respect to the currency, proficiency, and qualification needs of
GA pilots. The guidance contained in this version of AC 61-98 provides such information andaccomplishes the goals of the personal currency program, flight review, and IPC.

[malexander]

My only suggestion is before the flight let your daughter know that she can speak openly about any deficiencies she may observe. During the review the two of you will be switching roles and she will become the mentor. Have a fantastic flight!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


This is EXACTLY what we do. We thoroughly enjoy all of our time(s) together in the airplane (all the time for that matter.:)

[WLIU]

Advisory Circulars are just that, advisory. NOT regulatory. The FAA wants pilots to be aware of whatever their hot-button topic of the day is. Which is a good idea. But every pilot and CFI should be aware of the difference between regulation and advisory.

Best of luck,

Wes

[martymayes]

Far worse than any check ride......I don't care what the FAA intended, this is a check ride.

Okay, for discussion lets say the flight review is a P/F checkride. You have an off day and fail. Does that mean you have to land, get out of the plane and throw yourself on a sword? No!
Get additional training in the deficient areas and continue on! I've done flight reviews where the pilot could not perform and/or did not understand a task. We just trained to proficiency on that task and continued, 5-10 extra minutes.

Have never understood the aversion to having one's proficiency checked. I want to know if I my skills are deficient. That's the only way to improve. The only way to know if something needs improvement is to be evaluated. Or as we say in flight training, have a skills measurement. I would never quit flying because I might not pass a flight review. Would an angler quit fishing because he might not catch any fish?

Fine motor skills like the ones we use to fly aircraft are perishable. They will atrophy if not exercised. I can usually predict what areas a pilot will have trouble with just by looking at their logbook and recent flying experience because I know what gets rusty first. Based on that I can usually advise how long a flight review might take, the 1 hr flight minimum, which is often the expectation may not be realistic in all cases. I can say that all flight reviews will be fun and with a wee bit of commitment the final grade will be a P (if it were P/F).

[Bill Berson]

That was my point. A check ride is only an hour or less, I think. My last check ride cost $400 for one hour in my aircraft and about two hours of ground questions from the DPE.
But you are saying a completed Flight Review can be any amount, it might be 10 hours. Which might cost $2000 or more if I go to a seaplane flight school and need 6-10 hours at $400 per hour. So I would need to be careful where I go for a flight review. There might be limited options for a flight review locally.
This company offers a "BFR" for $325 if I want to travel to Florida https://www.jonesairandsea.com/seaplane-ratings-and-dual-flying/seary-training/
Should I expect to pass this $325 "BFR" with no prior seaplane time?

[Sam Buchanan]

That was my point. A check ride is only an hour or less, I think. My last check ride cost $400 for one hour in my aircraft and about two hours of ground questions from the DPE.
But you are saying a completed Flight Review can be any amount, it might be 10 hours. Which might cost $2000 or more if I go to a seaplane flight school and need 6-10 hours at $400 per hour. So I would need to be careful where I go for a flight review. There might be limited options for a flight review locally.

If I take a flight review and the instructor decides I need additional time to demonstrate proficiency, he has done me a huge favor. If I chafe at the idea of someone pointing out my flight deficiencies, I have demonstrated an attitude that more often than not will eventually be noted in an accident preliminary report. One of the purposes of flight reviews is to weed out the pilots who refuse to accept they are not proficient enough to be PIC.

[Bill Berson]

Wes, in post 45 said go ahead and take a BFR in a totally new aircraft. So how should I demonstrate proficiency in a completely unfamiliar seaplane?
It seems more like it would be an intro ride. I might do it. But does what Wes said comply with the current Advisory Circular?

[Sam Buchanan]

Wes, in post 45 said go ahead and take a BFR in a totally new aircraft. So how should I demonstrate proficiency in a completely unfamiliar seaplane?
It seems more like it would be an intro ride. I might do it. But does what Wes said comply with the current Advisory Circular?

A totally obtuse point. Seaplanes require a different rating from a land aircraft. Wes's example was for a different aircraft using an existing (SEL) rating.

The Flight Review is a simple process, thousands of pilots use it every year. Trying to force a more complex interpretation than reality is a pointless exercise.

[DaleB]

The Flight Review is a simple process, thousands of pilots use it every year. Trying to force a more complex interpretation than reality is a pointless exercise.
Amen. Recently did my flight review, in MY airplane, for a total outlay of fifty bucks. The CFI (friend of mine) is an ex-Air Force airline pilot, and in addition to demonstrating that I'm not an undue hazard to those around me we got well outside the envelope of attitudes and flight regimes than I'd even been before. All in all it was a very productive hour.

[martymayes]

But you are saying a completed Flight Review can be any amount, it might be 10 hours. Which might cost $2000 or more if I go to a seaplane flight school and need 6-10 hours at $400 per hour. So I would need to be careful where I go for a flight review. There might be limited options for a flight review locally.

Correct and a CFI should be able to provide a reasonable estimate of how long it will take after a simple interview and perhaps review of your logbook.


This company offers a "BFR" for $325 if I want to travel to Florida https://www.jonesairandsea.com/seaplane-ratings-and-dual-flying/seary-training/
Should I expect to pass this $325 "BFR" with no prior seaplane time?
Call the seaplane company in FL and ask if the $325 is a guaranteed rate before you buy your airline ticket. I'm sure there are disclaimers in the fine print.

Before you sit down with any CFI for a flight review it's perfectly acceptable to ask: "Hey, how long can I expect this to take and how much are you gonna charge?" If you don't like the answer, you can say "thanks but no thanks" or you can say "okay, lets get 'er done!" You're the customer.

FWIW, can now take an online course to satisfy the 1hr ground training portion of a flight review which I've seen advertised for $29.95 (Gleim). Ask the instructor if they will accept that then all you have to do is fly. Might be a better deal cause I charge $50/hr for the ground part.


That was my point. A check ride is only an hour or less, I think. My last check ride cost $400 for one hour in my aircraft and about two hours of ground questions from the DPE.

CFI and Designated Pilot Examiner rates have always been part of capitalism. They can set whatever rates they want. Charge too much for your product and no customers. Give people a good deal and they will beat a path to your door. Customer is free to choose which one he wants.

For my first checkride the examiner charged $60. It was about ~2 hrs of ground and 1.2 flight time. Pretty sure those days are history.

[Bill Berson]

A totally obtuse point. Seaplanes require a different rating from a land aircraft. Wes's example was for a different aircraft using an existing (SEL) rating.

The Flight Review is a simple process, thousands of pilots use it every year. Trying to force a more complex interpretation than reality is a pointless exercise.

You didn't answer my question: Can I get my BFR in one hour in a seaplane?
edit: I see Marty answered.

[malexander]

My last BFR was in June, IIRC. We did it in my 150 at night. The CFI is an Air Force E3 (AWACS) pilot, and he did it for free.:) I think we flew for at least 1 1/2 hrs. I really learned A LOT.

My daughter did my brother's review last month.

[martymayes]

You didn't answer my question: Can I get my BFR in one hour in a seaplane?


I think it would be a blast but I think you'll need a seaplane rating beforehand. If you get a seaplane rating won't need a flight review.

[Bill Berson]

All of my BFR’s were free and friendly in the past.
Does a Light Sport Endorsement count as a Flight Review?

[WLIU]

A new certificate or rating counts as a flight review. I will suggest that an endorsement does not, by itself, qualify as a flight review. That said, the instructor signing off the endorsement can also sign off a flight review so long as the 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight was accomplished.

Seaplanes - The regulation for flight reviews does not specify that it must be done in any particular category or class of flying machine. 14 CFR 61.56 says "A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate." So you can do that as part of an introduction to seaplanes, aerobatics, LSA's, etc. That said, I read the rule as saying that you must act as the pilot flying to demonstrate your safe airmanship to the satisfaction of the instructor. Doing that in a new category or class of aircraft is likely to take longer than 1 hour of flight time, but if you are having fun and you have enough $$ in your pocket, who cares?

Be creative and have fun. If you are interested in seaplanes, Jack Brown's in Florida, and a bunch of other places in Minnesota, Maine, and other places will be happy to help you out.

Best of luck,

Wes

[martymayes]

The regulation for flight reviews does not specify that it must be done in any particular category or class of flying machine. 14 CFR 61.56 says "A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate."

I think it goes on to say:

no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has—

(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated

[martymayes]

All of my BFR’s were free and friendly in the past.
Does a Light Sport Endorsement count as a Flight Review?

I would say yes if it includes 1 hr review of Part 91, 1 hr flight in a plane for which the pilot is rated and an endorsement from an authorized instructor stating successful completion of a flight review per the reg.