Medical for Experimental

[Capndar]

Pardon my ignorance (and yes I tried to search for the answer) What are the medical requirements to PIC Experimental aircraft in the US?

[lnuss]

Same as for any other aircraft. The medical requirements vary by the type of pilot certificate, not type of aircraft.

[martymayes]

If you want to operate an experimental as a light sport aircraft and exercise only sport pilot privileges, no medical required even if you hold an ATP certificate.

[See details on package, offer valid in all 50 states, void where prohibited by law]

[FlyingRon]

Well not by type of "airworthiness certificate" but rather the type of pilot certificate required.

As pointed out, if it is an LSA, then a sport pilot (or higher) can fly it without a medical. Gliders, LTA, etc.. also.

Airplanes that don't qualify as LSA, require either a medical certificate or the new "basic med."

[Bill Berson]

A Homebuilt motorglider doesn't require any medical or drivers license.
Even if heavier than 1320 pounds.

[Frank Giger]

Well not by type of "airworthiness certificate" but rather the type of pilot certificate required.

As pointed out, if it is an LSA, then a sport pilot (or higher) can fly it without a medical. Gliders, LTA, etc.. also.

Airplanes that don't qualify as LSA, require either a medical certificate or the new "basic med."

Not to split hairs, but that's not entirely true.

Sport Pilots must have a motor vehicle license, which is their medical - if one fails the eyesight or other tests of medical fitness for one, they also lose their flying priledges. Heck, lose one's driver's license for any reason and one is legally grounded.

Private pilots may fly under Sport Pilot rules, but clearly they must have a physical, even if it's not currently updated. If their physical is revoked for any reason, they are grounded when it comes to LSA qualified aircraft.

As previously stated, EA-B aircraft are, well, aircraft, and are treated no differently than certified ones when it comes to permits and ratings. A twin engine experimental requires the pilot to be multi-engine rated, a conventional gear one requires a tailwheel endorsement, etc.

[FlyingRon]

Not to split hairs, but that's not entirely true.
You are splitting hairs and what I wrote WAS entirely true. You just provided additional details.


As previously stated, EA-B aircraft are, well, aircraft, and are treated no differently than certified ones when it comes to permits and ratings. A twin engine experimental requires the pilot to be multi-engine rated, a conventional gear one requires a tailwheel endorsement, etc.
Now you are the one that is wrong. While an experimental makes no difference for the medical, it is true (as I correctly stated the MEDICAL is contingent on the PILOT certificate required), experimental do have some exceptions. You might want to read 61.31 again more carefully.

[Dana]

As previously stated, EA-B aircraft are, well, aircraft, and are treated no differently than certified ones when it comes to permits and ratings. A twin engine experimental requires the pilot to be multi-engine rated, a conventional gear one requires a tailwheel endorsement, etc.

Not quite. An experimental aircraft flown solo does not require the pilot to have any category or class ratings, or endorsements. If carrying a passenger, then the requirements do apply. So if your pilot certificate says "airplane single engine land", you can legally solo a seaplane, multi, glider, or even a helicopter.

[Auburntsts]

Not quite. An experimental aircraft flown solo does not require the pilot to have any category or class ratings, or endorsements. If carrying a passenger, then the requirements do apply. So if your pilot certificate says "airplane single engine land", you can legally solo a seaplane, multi, glider, or even a helicopter.

Do you have the ref for that? In any event, the aircraft’ OPLIMs may dictate otherwise—mine certainly do. Specifically they state that the PIC must hold an appropriate cat/class rating and have logbook endorsements required by 61.31(e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j).

[FlyingRon]

Do you have the ref for that? In any event, the aircraft’ OPLIMs may dictate otherwise—mine certainly do. Specifically they state that the PIC must hold an appropriate cat/class rating and have logbook endorsements required by 61.31(e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j).
Read 61.31(l) again. It exempts the earlier limitations for experimentals without passengers.

[rwanttaja]

Read 61.31(l) again. It exempts the earlier limitations for experimentals without passengers.

For those playing at home:

(l)Exceptions.

(1) This section does not require a category and class rating for aircraft not type-certificated as airplanes, rotorcraft, gliders, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered-lifts, powered parachutes, or weight-shift-control aircraft.

Homebuilts, of course, are not type-certificated.

I appreciate Ron supplying the reference. My brain was telling me the FAA had changed that. It, apparently, was wrong again.

Out of curiosity, this doesn't seem to apply to stuff like the high-performance/complex endorsements. So I probably couldn't fly an ME-110 replica without the endorsements.

Ron Wanttaja

[Bill Berson]

Do you have the ref for that? In any event, the aircraft’ OPLIMs may dictate otherwise—mine certainly do. Specifically they state that the PIC must hold an appropriate cat/class rating and have logbook endorsements required by 61.31(e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j).
Can you snap a photo of that paragraph from your operation limits and post here?
What aircraft type is this?
Could you request these limits be removed?
I am wondering if this paragraph is inserted in every new aircraft now?
thanks

[Auburntsts]

Can you snap a photo of that paragraph from your operation limits and post here?
What aircraft type is this?
Could you request these limits be removed?
I am wondering if this paragraph is inserted in every new aircraft now?
thanks

Here's a pic of the applicable para's off my OPLIMS:

6896

That wording is right of Order 8130.2G which was current when my OPLIMS for my RV-10 were issued in 2015. I realize the wording of OPLIMS issued under 8130.2H or the current version 8130.2J are probably different due to the major re-write 8130 underwent from ver G to H. However, I have absolutely no desire to get mine changed.

[Bill Berson]

Thanks Todd.
The thing I don't understand is that a Student Pilot can solo a C-172 without a category or class rating. Only an instructor solo endorsement is required.
So are Student pilots banned from solo flight in all homebuilts? From limitation 17?
Or does limitation 18 allow Student pilots?

Very confusing because 17 and 18 are sort of redundant. Perhaps there should be an "or" at the end of limitation 17.

[1600vw]

In the EAB world. Every OL is unique. No one will be like the other. You could have two exact same model airplanes and they could have totally different set of operating limitations. This may even be true for certified airplanes or ones that hold a type certificate.

Tony

[Bill Berson]

I checked FAA Order 8130.2j (2017).
I did not find the pilot limitations as noted in post 13.
It seems about 100 pages from the Order have been removed.

[Dana]

The op limitations for my Fisher 404, reissued 2016, say, "The pilot in command of this aircraft must hold Airplane category and Single-engine land class certificate or privilege. The pilot in command must hold all required ratings or authorizations, and endorsements required by 14 CFR part 61."

The older op limitations, issued 1991, say nothing about the pilot's qualifications.

[martymayes]

I checked FAA Order 8130.2j (2017).
I did not find the pilot limitations as noted in post 13.
It seems about 100 pages from the Order have been removed.

It's there, (8130.2J) just a different format. The operating limitations for ALL aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate is aggregated in Appendix D. Crewmember certifications are item numbers 7-10. Category and class will always be required except for very very unusual circumstances.

A student pilot can be authorized to fly an E/A-B with proper instructor endorsements.




Perhaps the FAA updated their computer system to one with a Pentium based processor so they can do some fancy stuff now like save paper.

[Bill Berson]

It's there, (8130.2J) just a different format. The operating limitations for ALL aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate is aggregated in Appendix D. Crewmember certifications are item numbers 7-10. Category and class will always be required except for very very unusual circumstances.

A student pilot can be authorized to fly an E/A-B with proper instructor endorsements.




Perhaps the FAA updated their computer system to one with a Pentium based processor so they can do some fancy stuff now like save paper.
I checked that. 7-10 does not have the (g) for operating amateur built.
So doesn't apply.
Why would a student be allowed to solo an EA-B without a rating and a Private Pilot not allowed without a rating?
Maybe Trump ordered some rules to be discarded.
6897

[martymayes]

I checked that. 7-10 does not have the (g) for operating amateur built.
So doesn't apply.

The way I read it, OL #7 is inclusive of all subsections of 21.191 .

[Bill Berson]

The way I read it, OL #7 is inclusive of all subsections of 21.191 .

It wouldn't make sense to include #16 and 20. But clearly #18 applies with the 191 (g)
My head hurts....

6898

[martymayes]

I think 16 is applicable to former military aircraft only (regardless of subsection)

20 is saying the life limit of a life-limited component doesn't go away just because it's bolted to an experimental airplane (again, regardless of subsection)

[robert l]

Y'all are going to make my head explode ! I just want to commit aviation and drill holes in the sky !
Bob

[martymayes]

Y'all are going to make my head explode ! I just want to commit aviation and drill holes in the sky !
Bob

Bob, you should have a couple options to fly; Basic Med without the old fashioned medical certificate:

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/


If the plane meets LSA parameters, no medical.

[FlyingRon]

For those playing at home:

(l)Exceptions.

(1) This section does not require a category and class rating for aircraft not type-certificated as airplanes, rotorcraft, gliders, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered-lifts, powered parachutes, or weight-shift-control aircraft.

Homebuilts, of course, are not type-certificated.

I was thinking more about:
(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to -


(i) An applicant when taking a practical test given by an examiner;
(ii) The holder of a student pilot certificate;
(iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an aircraft under the authority of -

(A) A provisional type certificate; or
(B) An experimental certificate, unless the operation involves carrying a passenger;


But I concede your point.

[robert l]

Bob, you should have a couple options to fly; Basic Med without the old fashioned medical certificate:

If the plane meets LSA parameters, no medical.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/

Marty, I let my medical expire years ago and have been flying S/P. I want to get my 3rd class back because there are a lot more chances to fly, 150's, 152's, 172's, 140's, etc. There are two Champs for rent within a 200 mi. radius and no other Light Sport aircraft even close. There are probably 30 Cessna's and Pipers for rent within 50 mi. so that's the reasoning behind my quest.
Bob

[Frank Giger]

I guess my point is that in order to legally pilot a fixed wing powered aircraft at LSA weight or above as PIC, one must hold a pilot's license...which implies a medical, whether by way of a driver's license or a Class III physical when obtained.

Student pilots must have a physical before they can solo while under instruction.

Good luck finding a CFI that will go along with "Oh, I don't need a physical of any type to solo, because I'm going to train in an Experimental!"

[FlyingRon]

Good luck finding a CFI that will go along with "Oh, I don't need a physical of any type to solo, because I'm going to train in an Experimental!"

Nobody made that statement and it is obviously NOT true.

Again, the requirement for the medical depends on the PILOT CERTIFICATE required to exercise the flight being conducted. Operations requiring a private pilot (airplanes, rotorcraft) require a third class or basic med. Operations requiring only a sport pilot only require the sport pilot "driver's license" medical.

Our foray int 61.31 was only because someone incorrectly stated I was wrong when I made the above statement earlier and further stated incorrectly that the EXPERIMENTAL status of an aircraft made no difference on the pilot certificate required.

[Frank Giger]

I'm honestly not trying to piss in your Wheaties, but the original question of what the medical requirements for flying an Experimental are is actually pretty straight forward - they are the same as for any other aircraft of the same classification.

And I'd like to thank you for enlightening me on endorsements for Experimentals, which is eye opening. I met a guy who, without a tail wheel endorsement, performed most of his test flight phase before obtaining it. After he burned through his 40, he took up a CFI in the aircraft and, naturally, demonstrated he was more than capable enough to earn it.

The CFI was his first passenger.

It's actually pretty neat to learn that he was completely within the regulations and did it by the book.

[Bill Berson]

The exemption from a Rating requirement for solo experimental flight might not apply to tailwheel endorsements.
Some folks say the tailwheel endorsement is required for all airplanes (61.31(i).

It's funny, all the talk about the rating exemptions for experimentals (in the rules several places). Because the way I read 61.31(c), no category, class or type rating is required for solo flight (for any aircraft).
A helicopter instructor once told me that since I had a Private Pilot Certificate with Airplane category, the student solo endorsements for me to fly solo in a rotorcraft category were not required.

I wish there was a plain (Plane?) English understandable book or website for this stuff.
My 5 hours allotment of FAR's study for the month has almost expired.