Sport Pilot DAR

[Bill Berson]

Anyone know about the Sport Pilot DAR? As mentioned in this FAA document page 345 https://www.eaa.org/~/media/files/eaa/aviationinterests/lsa/sport-pilot-rule.pdf
Where it says: • [New sport pilot Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) for light-sportaircraft will need to take a three-day training course in order to issue airworthinesscertificates for light sport aircraft. ]

Is this program available? What are the qualifications to be a Sport Pilot DAR?

[Joda]

Bill,

Actually, the statement should not have the word "Sport Pilot" in it, as a DAR has nothing to do with pilot certificates. There have been Light-Sport Aircraft DARs in existence since about 2005 or so. In fact, I was the first DAR to be issued function codes 47 and 48 (SLSA and ELSA). Light-Sport DARs were the people largely responsible for issuing airworthiness certificates to all of the "transitioned" ELSA aircraft (that is, those two-seat aircraft that had been operated under ultralight training exemptions, or had not been otherwise certificated).

There have been several iterations of the DAR training courses, but under the current system, every DAR applicant (regardless of which function codes they are applying for) must take the initial designee training at the FAA campus in Oklahoma City, OK. They also much take certain online courses that may apply to their various requested functions.

Eligibility and qualifications to become a DAR are found in FAA Order 8000.95, which can be found by going to www.faa.gov and searching for the order. I'd post a direct link here, but the FAA has a habit of changing links every now and then, so whatever link I posted would not be valid for long. It's easier just do go and do the search.

[Bill Berson]

Thanks Joe,
I take from your reply that the hurdles required for a Light Sport DAR are the same as for the heavier EA-B aircraft.
Sort of defeats the mission and goal of the Light Sport rule, I think.
A Light Sport Instuctor certificate is much simpler, for example.
Bill

[Joda]

Thanks Joe,
I take from your reply that the hurdles required for a Light Sport DAR are the same as for the heavier EA-B aircraft.
Sort of defeats the mission and goal of the Light Sport rule, I think.
A Light Sport Instuctor certificate is much simpler, for example.

Bill,

Issuing a light-sport airworthiness certificate is the very same process, using the same guidance, as issuing an amateur-built airworthiness certificate (or a standard one for that matter). This is totally separate from the pilot rules, so you can't compare a DAR to a DPE. While the certification standards are different for SLSA as compared to a standard category aircraft, the actual process for issuing the airworthiness certification process is very similar. Thus, the training for the DARs is basically the same regardless of what particular function codes the DAR is seeking.

[Bill Berson]

The United States Ultralight Assiciation requested the Light Sport Rule have three tiers. That didn't happen.
So the very light end, (my near ultralight but 300 pound single seat Light Sport design, for example), must comply with the same rules.
I was hoping this Light Sport DAR was something I could get for myself and perhaps others (as dealers) if I sold kits or plans.

Sadly, looks like it might not be worth the trouble.

The problem is that significant testing will be needed, so paying for a DAR inspection seems expensive and pointless for what may be only one flight.
Another option I considered was applying for a Special Flight Permit until all the airframe, engine and prop changes are complete.

[Frank Giger]

Have you talked to your local FAA office? I chased my tail on DAR's and on a resigned whim called them up to find that sure, if I could wait a couple weeks they could send a man around.

The conventional wisdom is that the FAA has no time for inspections, but that ain't always true.

[Bill Berson]

I talked to the Seattle FSDO at the last I.A. Renewal. He said they won't do any inspections.
Seems to me an I.A. should be adequate for an airworthiness inspection on a near ultralight one seater, at least. And perhaps any Light Sport.

[martymayes]

Seems to me an I.A. should be adequate for an airworthiness inspection on a near ultralight one seater, at least. And perhaps any Light Sport.
You would think. Seems the industry/alphabet group poo-poo’d that idea by suggesting A&P’s and A&P’s with IA are not qualified to inspect aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate.

[Bill Berson]

You would think. Seems the industry/alphabet group poo-poo’d that idea by suggesting A&P’s and A&P’s with IA are not qualified to inspect aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate.

Yeah.
The builder signs the form and declares the aircraft in condition for safe operation. The I.A could do a simple checklist for compliance. Data plate, placards, experimental decal, etc.

[martymayes]

Yeah.
The builder signs the form and declares the aircraft in condition for safe operation. The I.A could do a simple checklist for compliance. Data plate, placards, experimental decal, etc.

The FAA has no problem with an A&P performing a condition inspection but by golly they are not qualified to perform an inspection for issuance of a special a/w certificate. Go figure

[Bill Berson]

Joe,
Bruce Kitelinger, ASI at Seattle FSDO told me they either can't or won't do any EA-B inspections (forgot the reason). He may have said it isn't funded anymore.
Whatever the reason, I think this might be a good time for EAA to propose an alternative.
I was thinking maybe EAA Technical Counselors could do the final inspection for Light Sport. Of course, without declaring or signing any airworthiness declaration, same as all TC inspections to avoid liability. The builder should declare airworthiness or condition and take the liability.
Since no inspection at all is required for up to 254 pound ultralights, it seems logical a limited inspection for Light Sport up to say 496 pounds could be tried.
I think in the UK, LAA (Light Aircraft Association) does registration.
EAA could offer to take over Light Sport registration and safety tracking. FAA would still issue N numbers to builders for $5.

President Trump ordered reduced regulation from agencies like FAA with his order to drop two rules for each new reg.
Might be a good time for the regulation relief that Paul Poberezny dreamed of and worked for his entire life through EAA.
EAA could help the FAA by finding ideas for rules that need to be dropped.

[martymayes]

Bruce Kitelinger, ASI at Seattle FSDO told me they either can't or won't do any EA-B inspections (forgot the reason). He may have said it isn't funded anymore.


In either case, it has to be in a written - in a document that originated from the mighty palace at 800 independence avenue SW or a document produced by the FSDO manager. I'd be like using their own words: "show me the data?"

The FAA says they don't regulate the pricing practices of designees but buy controlling the quantity of designees they are doing exactly that. Scarcity is one of the most basic economic principles.

[Joda]

Bruce Kitelinger, ASI at Seattle FSDO told me they either can't or won't do any EA-B inspections (forgot the reason). He may have said it isn't funded anymore.

"Won't" would be the correct term, as "can't" would be an untruth. There is nothing in FAA documentation that would prohibit any FSDO from doing amateur-built inspections. There are quite a few offices around the country that continue to do Amateur-built inspections with no problem. I think "Don't want to" would be the most accurate description of your situation.

So, instead of talking to the FSDO, talk to the MIDO. It actually is the MIDO's direct responsibility to do the inspections anyway, rather than the FSDO. Check with the MIDO and you should have better luck.

[Bill Berson]

Thanks Joe.
I will plan on talking to MIDO when finished.
If for some reason they can't travel 150 miles to my location, I could consider trailering to them.

[Joda]

Thanks Joe.
I will plan on talking to MIDO when finished.
If for some reason they can't travel 150 miles to my location, I could consider trailering to them.

I'm sure the MIDO will be able to help you. And they may appreciate you coming to them. I've done several inspections where the owner brought the aircraft to me. This was especially true with Powered Parachutes, but I had a few fixed-wing aircraft show up on a trailer too. Just have to have room to assemble it and have it "ready for flight" for the inspection.

[Bill Berson]

Maybe you could do a batch of inspections at Oshkosh. Say around the end of July. :)

It would be fun and educational for other builders if they could watch.

[Joda]

Maybe you could do a batch of inspections at Oshkosh. Say around the end of July. :)

It would be fun and educational for other builders if they could watch.

In theory, that would be a neat idea Bill. Unfortunately, the reality is that my duties here at EAA would preclude me from having the time to do inspections during convention time. Believe me, you're not the first person to suggest this. But it just won't work out.

[Bill Berson]

Maybe another DAR with free time could volunteer to do it.