EAA Airventure and Strugis

[Bill Greenwood]

I sometimes watch various car or motorcycle tv shows, one thing in common with EAA is one founder, John Krajen (sp.?) of the big auction show was a partner in Coutesy Aircraft, which is a long time exhibitor at EAA. Its fun to see what Mark has for sale every year and wish you could pick out a couple of the best planes to take home. And Harley Davidson, along with Mercury is a Wi based sponsor at EAA. Many of us grew up liking sport type cars or motorcycles or even still ride them. There's not much more high performance that an an all out race motorcycle not many things as thrilling or dangerous. The top bikes have over 200 hp, more than some compact cars and weigh under maybe 375 lbs. They outaccelrate any car and only brake a bit less than a F1 car. They lap Daytona at 210 mph speed. Remembe in Top Gun Tom Cruise also rides a Triumph I think it was. I used to ride my Honda 500 to my flight lessons in San Diego at Mongomery Field and Miramar was teh airport just to the north and almost sharing downwind in the pattern.

I was also watching the huge cycle rally at Sturgis and comparing it to Airventure. It had some similarites and some big differecnes. There are a lot of people ,maybe 600,000 for the week, Hotels sell out but rates may go up to $250 still cheaper than Oshosh. Machines are important but maybe not the focus as more on people. Probably not as many famous people, maybe some infamous ones. There are custom and style type exhibits. I dont know if the have fourms but the od have custom built contest, kind of like Lindy award winners at EAA. The big difference is alchol and bars and drinking are a major focus., to excess unlike Osh. There are several hundred cops and lots of arrest for being drunk or generally troublesome. Osh by contrast has almost no arrests. The setting is scenic, more arid than Osh but maybe with its own beauty. Whle there you could see the monuments esp Crazy Horse.
I d like to go once, I think that like Osh it would be fun to see, dont know if Id want to do it every year. And it might be a really good thing to get to know some people who may dress or seem outside the norms. Both types like leater jackets!One thing I remember from my sociology course was that its common for groups to have a uniform, maybe their own slang or id in some way. Can be good or bad, SS or KKK. Army ranger or Navy Seals, RAF or a car or bike club, or Shriner, NFL or NHL, Ryder Cup or football team, kilt or baggy jeans, short hair like a Marine or long beard like the other side! Part of human nature over much of history or the world.
Has anyone here gone and what was it like?

[Bill Greenwood]

The car auction I saw was Mecum, many of the vintage restorations a parallel to the great classic airplanes.

[Floatsflyer]

[QUOTE=Bill Greenwood;66707I was also watching the huge cycle rally at Sturgis and comparing it to Airventure. It had some similarites and some big differecnes.[/QUOTE]

What were you watching? Absolutely NO similarities, only gigantic differences. Sturgis makes Oshkosh look like a Vatican prayer meeting.

Sturgis is Sodom and Gamorah, Oshkosh is Disneyand meets Branson, Missouri.

Sturgis is sex, drugs and rock n' roll compared to Oshkosh Romper Room. Sturgis is beautifully endowed women walking and driving big bikes around half naked in bikinis and sometimes topless. Oshkosh is old white guys in Bermuda shorts driving around in mobility scooters.

If Sturgis incorporated lots of airplanes with their bikes, maybe we'd all be heading to North Dakota instead of Wisconsin next summer. Hmmmmmm....there's the germ of an idea there, what ya think Jack?

[Mark van Wyk]

Been to AirVenture once. Never been to Sturgis, but every year I try to attend nearby (to me) Hollister (California) 4th of July Biker Rally for an afternoon. Sometimes I fly into Hollister Muni (KCVH) and catch a ride into town.
I agree with how Floatsflyer characterizes the bike rally attendees except for the beautiful buxom ladies part. These biker rallies are about 95 percent fat white guys and the few girlfriends that do tag along are typically nothing to write home to mama about in — any department — including brains, looks, or other.

[Bill Berson]

Sturgis is the week after Oshkosh. On I-90 in South Dakota. I drive by after Oshkosh. Not much going on a week early but lots of cops. Every vehicle was at speed limit including bikes. I got pulled over for failure to yield to a cop car parked on the roadside. The law is you must yield and move to the left fast lane. I told the cop about the three motorcycles that were in the left lane so I couldn't yield. Seemed like a set up to me.
He let me go.

[steve]

I don't want to see most of the women in attendance at either event wearing bikinis. You just can't un-see that stuff. On the other hand, there's some eye candy tending bar over at the SOS tent.

[rwanttaja]

If Sturgis incorporated lots of airplanes with their bikes, maybe we'd all be heading to North Dakota instead of Wisconsin next summer.
You'd miss the party, Floats... Sturgis is in South, not North, Dakota.

Other than that, you were dead on. Oshkosh is structured, hosted by a nonprofit corporation. No one hosts Sturgis, no one defines what is done and not done (except local/state/federal ordinances), there's no admission fee. People just show up.

And, like Floats says, Sturgis is an adult event. Oshkosh is a family one. Don't see that changing, anytime soon. The two really aren't comparable.

Mind you, there's nothing that prevents someone from setting up a Sturgis-type event for aviation.

Ron "Born to be Mild" Wanttaja

[Bob Dingley]

Mind you, there's nothing that prevents someone from setting up a Sturgis-type event for aviation.

Ron "Born to be Mild" Wanttaja
I believe that its been done. I recall a "kegger" with guns and aircraft when passing through SE Asia in 69.
Bob

[Floatsflyer]

You'd miss the party, Floats... Sturgis is in South, not North, Dakota.

Ron "Born to be Mild" Wanttaja

You are correct, thanks for the geography lesson. Shoulda used my Foreflight.

[robert l]

Guns and airplanes, I'm in. This isn't really important but, is it legal to mount a gun on an aircraft, or truck for that matter ? Just curious, that's all.
Bob

[Bob Dingley]

[QUOTE=robert l;66734]Guns and airplanes, I'm in. This isn't really important but, is it legal to mount a gun on an aircraft, or truck for that matter ? Just curious, that's all.
Bob[/QUOTE
Coyote hunting Super Cubs used to be "a thing." Beyond that I can shed no light.

Bob

[Frank Giger]

Guns and airplanes, I'm in. This isn't really important but, is it legal to mount a gun on an aircraft, or truck for that matter ? Just curious, that's all.
Bob

It is totally legal to mount a firearm on an aircraft.

It is totally legal to fire a firearm from an aircraft - see dropping objects.

Individual airports and the BATF may have an interest, but not the FAA.

[CarlOrton]

Probably an old wives tale, but aren't you *required* to carry a firearm in your plane in Alaska?

[Bill Berson]

Probably an old wives tale, but aren't you *required* to carry a firearm in your plane in Alaska?
Yes. But I didn't.

[Louis]

Probably an old wives tale, but aren't you *required* to carry a firearm in your plane in Alaska?
It used to be. The requirement for a firearm in the mandatory minimum survival gear was dropped a few years ago.

[CarlOrton]

Thanks for the update, Louis!

[CHICAGORANDY]

The dropping of the firearm mandate was the result of an incredible lobbying effort by the hungry bears and angry moose.

[raytoews]

Been to Sturgis once and Osh three times, no similarity at all.

But,,

Maybe a few bodacious babes in g string and a couple bandaids would live it up.

May cause a few more accidents.

Imagine seeing one of them waving you off the runway.

Bam,,,straight into another airplane.

[Bill Greenwood]

yep , Ray ,"no similarity at all"
No location that folks return to year after year with mutual interest in a certain type of machinery. No one with T shirts again with logos or photos on them.No leather jackets often with pictures on the back. No girls advertising beer, no beer tents. No sponsor by Harley. No boon to area hotels or restaurant, no crowds just walk right in. No engine or exhaust noise.No one revving a loud engine. No high speed runs. No food trucks. No best of show judging. no high performance or homebuilt machines. No tool vendors. No large crowds. No extra workers hired for the event. Nothing for sale not any bikes or planes for sale or sold. No auctions ,no bulletin boards. No ban on firearms. No crowded parking , plenty of room just pull right in anywhere. No one from Canada or all over the U S. Never an accident. No scenic area like lakes or mountain parks. No publicity, nothing famous about the gathering or the location. No police presence. No majority of older white guys. No bands or music. No crash helmets or protective clothing for riding or flying.

[Frank Giger]

Bill, comparing Sturgis to Oshkosh is like comparing Sturgis to ComicCom in San Diego. All large "type" meetings are similar in fundamental ways.

And very, very different.

[rwanttaja]

Bill, comparing Sturgis to Oshkosh is like comparing Sturgis to ComicCom in San Diego. All large "type" meetings are similar in fundamental ways.

Except people at Oshkosh dress funny.

Ron "Whadda ya mean this tie doesn't match my T-Shirt" Wanttaja

[rwanttaja]

Bill, comparing Sturgis to Oshkosh is like comparing Sturgis to ComicCom in San Diego. All large "type" meetings are similar in fundamental ways.

And very, very different.

That's true, for sure. The meetings reflect the basic character of the people attracted to come. Oshkosh attracts white, midwestern middle-aged men of a basic, law-abiding nature. Sturgis has a different interest group, appealing more to the rebels and those looking to party. ComicCon a more-different one, yet, with a much more liberal slant and a very broad base of attendees.

All require the five "P"s: Pavilions, Provisions, Potties, Policing, and Parking. "Pavilions" is generic, not meaning specifically tents, but central facilities for hosting the event. "Provisions" is food and water for the attendees, "Potties" is, well, obvious, "Policing" includes traditional police functions as well as the event organization itself, and "Parking" is the ability to efficiently gather attendees and accommodate both their vehicles as well as places for them to stay.

Needs differ by the type of event. ComicCon actually comes out easiest, since they meet in existing convention facilities and don't require any outside infrastructure.

We had a local fly-in that tried to get around most of this. On a local airpark with a single grass runway, and the residents just picked a convenient Saturday. They passed the hat for some porta-potty rentals, and attendees just basically parked wherever they could. No formal publicity, just always the weekend after a particular holiday.

I flew in few times, but just started feeling uncomfortable. No policing, so you had to go-around when people were strolling across the runway. No food available on-site, so you had to bring your own. Got harder and harder to find somewhere to park your airplane, and too many crowded close to the runway to keep from having to walk from the far end.

Gave it up one year, after repeated attempts to land being foiled by airplanes taking off in front of me and small formations shooting perpendicularly through the traffic pattern.

A couple of years after THAT, the inevitable happened: an accident. A month or so later, some lawyers came by, "Looking for the organizers of the fly-in."

Sturgis, on the other hand, has it a lot easier. If traffic is heavy, you just put down a foot and sit on your bike. If you can't find food, you just roll down the highway a bit until you find a place that isn't too crowded. And as my wife always says, "For you men, the world is your toilet."

Ron Wanttaja

[Frank Giger]

There's something similar - though it never experienced the growth you cite - within the WWI replica community. Every Father's Day, they gather at Gardner, KS for an "airshow" on that Saturday. Really, it's sort of a "type" fly-in more than anything else. The "airshow" part is folks flying more or less at will, depending on the weather.

No fence at the airport, no tickets, no advertising (other than word of mouth), and folks sort of wander in and up to the flight line to look at the airplanes.

It's kind of understood that if one is part of the community that policing people is implied. While I was just a spectator and something of a helper, more than once I gently reminded the civilians that smoking on the flight line wasn't a good idea, and to venture no further towards the runway than a few steps from the front of the line of aircraft. And everyone kept an eye out for kids.

When a plane was going to crank up, we herded people well back. At no point could I say there was ever enough folks to call it a crowd. More like a few groups of passers-by...and most of them were builders or pilots themselves.