Battle of Britain Day

[Bill Greenwood]

I dont see any mention in the news of the 15 th which is celebrated in England as Battle of Britain Day. It wasnt the end of the battle and certainly not of the war, but as Sir Winston said it was perhaps "the end of the beginning" with the start being when Germany and the Luftwaffe took over most of Europe and France and was looking unstopable. The next step was to invade England but first they had to conquer the RAF then the Royal Navy. The Germans made a maximum effort on the 15thm and Dowding as head of Fighter Command met them with a full response , as Churchill asked "what reserves do we have" and Dowding answered " There are none". The RAF was able to repulse German attacks and prevail, with a narrow margin and stay in operation. Hitler, realized he could not invade England and in perhaps the most costly mistake he could have made looked instead to invade Russia.

[rwanttaja]

I dont see any mention in the news of the 15 th which is celebrated in England as Battle of Britain Day. It wasnt the end of the battle and certainly not of the war, but as Sir Winston said it was perhaps "the end of the beginning" with the start being when Germany and the Luftwaffe took over most of Europe and France and was looking unstopable. The next step was to invade England but first they had to conquer the RAF then the Royal Navy. The Germans made a maximum effort on the 15thm and Dowding as head of Fighter Command met them with a full response , as Churchill asked "what reserves do we have" and Dowding answered " There are none". The RAF was able to repulse German attacks and prevail, with a narrow margin and stay in operation. Hitler, realized he could not invade England and in perhaps the most costly mistake he could have made looked instead to invade Russia.

Saw mention of it on several Facebook pages, albeit mostly those of friends in the Commonwealth. It was listed in the "Today on this date" section of yesterday's paper, here in Seattle.

For those who read the book, "Piece of Cake," there's an interesting bit of insight, delivered from the mouth of one one of the characters.

The conventional view is that the Battle of Britain prevented Operation Sea Lion, the German invasion of Britain. The author points of what probably would have happened if the Germans HAD tried to invade.

1. The majority of the German troops would have crossed the channel on barges, towed by smaller ships.
2. The barges could not have made it across the channel during daylight.
3. The Luftwaffe had no accurate night-bombing capability
4. The Royal Navy had *hundreds* of warships that could have made it to the barges by sunset. The German surface Navy was actually rather small.
5. The German barges had limited freeboard (height of the gunwales above water). The RN ships would sink them just by passing at high speed, and reserve the guns for the larger ships carrying tanks and guns.
6. The German army would thus suffer massive casualties by dawn.

Now, this ignores a couple of things. First, of course, is the German paratroopers (part of the German Air Force, not the Army). British night fighter forces weren't that strong at this early point in the war. Second is the U-Boat fleet, which would undoubtedly have been stationed to catch those Royal Navy ships on the way to the invasion area. Third...well, the RN (and for that matter, the RAF) didn't show too well during the Great Channel Dash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Dash) about 18 months later. Finally, the character in the book who mentions this is an FAA (Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm) officer seconded to the RAF. He was undoubtely biased. :-)

Not to detract from the heroism of the RAF pilots during the Battle, of course. But Britain did have a fallback plan to prevent invasion.

Ron "Spring chicken to shitehawk in one easy lesson" Wanttaja

[L16 Pilot]

I always thought the movie "Battle of Britain' was a fine movie and pretty well depicted the overall situation at the time. While they used some mock up, graphics, etc. it also used some correct for the time period aircraft. I'd put it as one of my two favorite WW2 movies along with Twelve O'clock High.

[Floatsflyer]

Twelve O'clock High is an excellent film that was short on flying action and much more about the causes and effects of PTSD which was a subject well before its time. Back then they called it battle fatigue or a few other names.

[rwanttaja]

I always thought the movie "Battle of Britain' was a fine movie and pretty well depicted the overall situation at the time. While they used some mock up, graphics, etc. it also used some correct for the time period aircraft.
Then you be pleased (HA!) to know: They're looking at a remake.

I'm NOT looking forward to it.


Twelve O'clock High is an excellent film that was short on flying action and much more about the causes and effects of PTSD which was a subject well before its time. Back then they called it battle fatigue or a few other names.

Just about my favorite move, and I have all the TV episodes on DVD. And a reproduction Toby mug on my shelf. And an original movie poster. And a copy of the original book. And a copy of "The Twelve O'Clock High Logbook," a compendium of the book and series. And....

Did I mention I like "Twelve O'Clock High"?

Speaking of the book, Twelve O'Clock High (the movie) is an excellent example on how to take a great book and condense it to make a great movie. Most books, shot scene-for-scene, would come out about 10 hours of film time. The writers talked it over, and decided to delete anything that didn't illustrate the deterioration of General Savage. Out went the love interest, out when the scene with Lt. Bishop in a POW camp (he's outright killed in the movie) and out went the ending where Savage is recovering and heading back to work at Headquarters.

Ron "Chaplain, your province is sin. Kindly restrict yourself to that theater of operations" Wanttaja

[Mayhemxpc]

1. BoB. James Hollands book, the Battle of Britain does a great job of putting the air battle into the overall strategic context. This includes the nightly mine laying, mine sweeping (on both sides) the German navy's efforts to build a passage across (flanks protected by mines and U-boats), E-boat operations and so forth. He does not speculate on what might have happened. There were some interesting war-games on that in the 1970's and early 80's as Britains war plans became declassified. Hitler's main effort from the start was a war with Russia. France was a little bit of vengeance with mostly making sure West flank was secure before moving east. Invading Britain was not part of that plan, but as long as Britain was active as a base of operations against him, it had to be planned for.

2. !2 O'Cock High (not to take anything away from BoB day/Adler Tag). One of the best movies on leadership I know of. Always made it part of my professional education for my junior officers (also including "Command Decision," and "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon.")

[Bill Greenwood]

I am rereading RAF ace Peter Townsends , and almost husband of Pricess Margaret book Duel of Eagles, and his account of a number of German plans and reports re Sea Lion, the invasion. And I m not on facebook so didnt see that.

[Kyle Boatright]

BoB was the first "grownup" movie I saw as a kid. I was 4 or 5 at the time. Dad took me back to see it again a couple of weeks later. He was an airplane guy too. The aerial scenes in that movie are still the high water mark for aviation movies.

And then there's 12 O'Clock High. The segue between "today" and "back then" (and return) is extraordinarily well done.

The sad thing is today's movies move so fast, I'm not sure we'll ever get that type movie again. GWTW, The Sound of Music, The Great Escape, Lawrence of Arabia, The Bridge over the River Kwai, BoB, 12 O'clock High? Better get 'em on DVD or something because they won't be making any more like that...

[Floatsflyer]

The sad thing is today's movies move so fast, I'm not sure we'll ever get that type movie again. GWTW, The Sound of Music, The Great Escape, Lawrence of Arabia, The Bridge over the River Kwai, BoB, 12 O'clock High? Better get 'em on DVD or something because they won't be making any more like that...

Most of todays Hollywood studio model huge budget movies are sequels or remakes of highly successful ones because there is too much money at stake so no one wants to take a risk and hence creativity suffers. It's called going to the well over and over until the well no longer brings forth water because there are no guarantees in the film biz. There are numerous exceptions of course with small budget independent films that do so well critically and commercially.

Most of the great classic films you quote are epic historical dramas based on real people and real events helmed by visionary directors like David Lean. I thought that "Dunkirk" was a return to this kind of filmmaking. I hope there's more to come.