I am a flight 'virgin' no more!

[CHICAGORANDY]

So the weather here in Illinois was FANTASTIC today so I hopped on my iron pony and put on about 130 miles of lazy fun motorcycle riding. About half-way on my journey I passed a small grass airport with a sign that said Sport Pilot Training.

$85 later and my Intro Flight began and I WAS FLYING!!!!!! this Evektor Sport for about a half-hour. I did the takeoff, ascent to 3000' and multiple turns basically flitting about the clear blue skies. Also set up the landing thru downwind when the instructor took over. It was terrifyingly terrific!!!!

I am hooked. And my 260# carcass fit just fine, thank you very much - My instructor teaches a fellow who is 325+# so I was not a burden to this aircraft.

6669

[Frank Giger]

Welcome to your new addiction!

[Floatsflyer]

You are now a deflowered flyboy. Mazel Tov!! Prepare to become very, very poor.

I'm trying to understand your picture. Are you about to a)kiss the ground, b)throw up, c) put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye? A pic showing your newly gained excitement and exaltation would have been fun to see.

Let us know when you solo. You are about to do something that so very few do.

[CHICAGORANDY]

That is the instructor checking the fuel sump.

[CHICAGORANDY]

First impressions.... The Evektor with a Rotax 912 is very quiet. The cabin offered sufficient width so I didn't feel at all cramped. I quickly fell victim to sensory information overload but stayed calm enough to follow instructions and even attempt to keep the darn ball centered on turns - lol. Since I am an All the Gear cyclist I was wearing my usual heavy leather, Frankenstein thick soled boots, so I had very poor rudder feedback and in fact my right hoof was on the instructor's left rudder pedal/foot a few times. next time I'll drive out there in the Escape and wear sneakers.

Flight Sim experience at least let me know what the various dials did but not mimic the actual experience of slipping the surly bonds of Earth at all. After all the true excitement of a 'first' experience I left the field feeling that this old dog can indeed learn a new trick or two and I just might be able to learn to perform the miracle of flight.

[DaleB]

Well, congrats. :) See, I told you you weren't too big to fly! Even with an extra few pounds of leather.

[Mike B]

Congratulations Randy!! That is something I'd love to do, and then build a Zenith.

[CHICAGORANDY]

I've been saying exactly that for what seems like 'forever'. I sat around that tiny airport for a couple hours just chatting with a few folks and watching their two Evektors take up scheduled students. Pure serendipity on a Saturday cycle ride that I pulled in there. And something just clicked and I said to myself "If not NOW? When?" and I decided to spend the dough for a discovery flight. In my area $85 is actually a bargain. Most go for $150 and up.

[1600vw]

I know a man not that far from Chicago maybe two hr drive from you, that charges 40 bucks for a discovery flight.

Tony

[robert l]

I don't worry too much about that ball thing. When I was going for my tail wheel endorsement I had a couple of instructors ask if I always fly without rudder and I'm like, oh yeah, that !
Bob

[Mayhemxpc]

Congratulations. This should provide more stories for your tram route!

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, I hope you consider that your first lesson of your pilot course. and not just a one time ride. Get going with that guy and plane or whatever you can do consistently. The initial learning to fly is some of the most interesting and fun times I ve ever had in 38 years of flying. Ive been lucky enough to experience several of the top piston fighters as well as some time in B-17, DC-3, Tri Motor, etc, even one brief jet trainer flight. All cool but the initial learning has it s own charm as it is all new.
You can, in a few months be a pilot, or be a spectator. You just have to get out and do it,and the more often the better and cheaper in the long run.

[Bill Berson]

Get a logbook and go back and have the intro flight logged in the logbook. It all adds up.

[Bill Greenwood]

Yes ,Bill's right, log that first flight and have the CFI sign it , you paid for the lesson and the CFI. If I was the FBO doing introductory flights, especially an hour or more long, Id include a log book and sign and give it to the person as their first lesson. Some FBOs dont do a very good job of marketing and the CFI is in such a hurry to make $30 that I have seen them let $5000 walk right out the doorand not even try to make the next lesson appointment.

[CHICAGORANDY]

My plan is to do the ground school portion online at home using the Gleim product, take the test and then start flight training at that grass strip airport about an hour-fifteen from my home. At the FBO I saw they offer the Gleim materials and had a few boxes of the Gleim Sport Pilot Kit. I'm advised it is a solid courtesy to buy from them rather than Amazon...if they don't charge an extraordinary amount.

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, it is even possible that someone on this forum has a left over course theyd give you or large libraries may have them. The written will be pretty easy, do an hour or two daily and it is a matter of a couple of weeks. If you can Id advise doing the flying part right along with the book learning.Just dont ignore the books and only fly, the book probably has not only the laws, FARs, but also how to fly. And learning from a small airport wil make you a better pilot.

[CHICAGORANDY]

"Randy, if money is a big issue"...........

I'm trying to remember if there ever was a time in my life when money has NOT been a big issue? - LOL - In a few months I will have some monthly discretionary income to apply to flight. Ideally I'm going to try and borrow sufficient to finance the entire training process upfront. (as in 'in the bank') I won't start a new adventure without the funding secured to finish it properly.

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, you might talk frankly to the flight school about the financing. If you do have funds now they may well discount the price if you prepaid for the block, I think Sport Pilot might be 20 hours if I recall. It is also possible that they have a bank that can finance or loan on an asset you have such as a paid for car etc. I dont want to encourage you to spend money foolishly, only you know your situation and flying is just a hobby for most of us, but it is a fun and satisfying thing to learn, its not hard to learn and there is a clear path and lastly once you get the pilot license you are a pilot for life, It doesnt expire, tho there are minimal easy to meet currency requirements.

[DaleB]

If you haven't already, you might want to sniff around and see if there's a flying club anywhere near you that has a suitable airplane. It's unlikely, but not unheard of. Sometimes a club can be more cost effective than renting. I know when I was doing my flight training (not that long ago, my check ride was in 2012) the flight school was getting about $105 per hour for a Cherokee, and the flying club's much nicer 172 cost $85. Of course the problem is that not many flying clubs have something LSA compliant.

Bill mentioned prepaid block time. Be careful with that... some flight schools are solid but I lost about $750 to a flight school that abruptly closed up shop a few days after I'd prepaid for a bunch of hours. I later found out that they had NEVER paid the flight instructor who was teaching me.

[CHICAGORANDY]

The place that is my #1 choice so far has been in business over 25 years and does offer 10 hour blocks at $105 p/hr for their Evektor Sports - they have 2 of them. I am not even considering going for a full Private Pilot license because my color acuity is not good enough for me to pass those standard circle full of colored dots tests. The easiest way I can explain my color perception is to say I can distinguish with NO problem an 8 pack of crayons but in the 32 & 64 packs I see duplicates which logic tells me are not really duplicates.

I am slightly surprised that there are not more options for a Sport Pilot wannabe in a major metro area like Chicago. Although I reckon the restricted class of airspaces is why they are all out in the boonies. I live under 10 minutes from Midway Airport but can't imagine sharing runways with Southwest - lol

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, frankly color visions is not that important for a pilot, often light gun signals are given as one thing needed, but not many of us have ever had to really use light gun signals with loss of all coms and a plane still flys just fine with or without coms. Normal vision is important. I think sport pilot would be fine for you, quicker and cheaper than private, you mainly miss night flying, instrument flying and perhaps some cross country instruction. I havent flown an Evektor but have flown a Gobosh which is similar and a neat little plane.

[Floatsflyer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the coloured number dots were primarily about determining various degrees of depth perception.

[Bill Berson]

The simple colored dot test only alerts of partial defective color vision. I can't pass the color test either. I took a special FAA test to get a Statement Of Demonstrated Ability which allowed me to get a Private certificate with no restrictions.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Good to know should I desire to move beyond Sport Pilot down the road. For now I'll concentrate on baby steps... and IMHO purchasing the Flight Sim X Evektor software today also counts as a baby step - LOL. Next will be the Gleim kit.

[robert l]

I'm not color blind but I am blind in one eye and I fly Sport Pilot. I haven't had a 3rd class medical in over 35 years but have been thinking about going for it. I was never denied one, just let it expire. Depth perception at a distance isn't a proplem. As for now, I can't thread a needle but I can land an Aeronca Champ !
Bob

[Frank Giger]

My plan is to do the ground school portion online at home using the Gleim product, take the test and then start flight training at that grass strip airport about an hour-fifteen from my home. At the FBO I saw they offer the Gleim materials and had a few boxes of the Gleim Sport Pilot Kit. I'm advised it is a solid courtesy to buy from them rather than Amazon...if they don't charge an extraordinary amount.

I bought and used the Gleim "Sport Pilot Box" and can recommend it without reservation. It comes with an online school as well, which is pretty cool in taking the sample tests. Factor in shipping and it's probably a wash on the cost (but I'd check).

The cool thing about being a Sport Pilot is that if you decide your mission requires a Private Pilot, all of the training will apply and you'll only have to do the hood, the night flying, the physical, written test, and check ride.

Word of advice - on the dual cross country, make sure it's long enough to meet the Private Pilot standards. It probably will anyway, as the one for Sport Pilot is really short. The solo cross country stuff won't be a problem if you fly around with your Sport Pilot ticket normally.

[DaleB]

The cool thing about being a Sport Pilot is that if you decide your mission requires a Private Pilot, all of the training will apply and you'll only have to do the hood, the night flying, the physical, written test, and check ride.
IF the CFI holds a regular CFI certificate. If he or s Sport Pilot CFI, the hours don't count as dual for Private Pilot training. I get the impression there aren't a lot of CFI-S certificate holders around. I was thinking about getting mine but there would be no practical purpose to it, since I have an E-LSA.

[Bill Greenwood]

That seems a bit unfair Dale, that you could do the 20 hours of so which I think Sport pilot requires and not be able to credit any of it toward private pilot. Never thought of that.
The FBO I use most often doesnt teach sport pilot. Do you have to do the sport pilot flight instruction in a LSA, or could it be a reg plane, perhaps Cub or C150 etc?
For many people the sport rating may get them flying where they might not have otherwise. The Gobosh I flew was similar to an Evektor and seemed like a good plane.

[DaleB]

That seems a bit unfair Dale, that you could do the 20 hours of so which I think Sport pilot requires and not be able to credit any of it toward private pilot. Never thought of that.
The FBO I use most often doesnt teach sport pilot. Do you have to do the sport pilot flight instruction in a LSA, or could it be a reg plane, perhaps Cub or C150 etc?
For many people the sport rating may get them flying where they might not have otherwise. The Gobosh I flew was similar to an Evektor and seemed like a good plane.
Not my fault, complain to the FAA if it seems unfair. It seems that way to me too. But, a Sport Pilot CFI is not a "qualified instructor" for private pilot training. For one thing, as I understand it you can get a sport CFI ticket with 150 hours total time and no commercial certificate.

You could do all of the training for SP up to solo in a non LSA. Solo and the checkride would have to be done in an LSA. My new co-owner was training in a Champ, but the Champ's owner/CFI doesn't have it insured for solo student pilots. There are exactly zero available LSAs for rent anywhere near here, no CFIs with an LSA that can be flown by a solo student pilot.

So guess why he's now my new co-owner? The guy had to buy half an airplane to be able to get his Sport Pilot ticket. On the bright side, he'll be flying pretty cheaply once he's able to kick the instructor out. We figure our operating cost at under $30 per hour including gas, and about $140 per month each for hangar and insurance.

[CHICAGORANDY]

It is my understanding after some research that the lessons must be given in an LSA qualified airplane. That alone doubtless makes for some difficulties for many since there are so few schools out this way that teach it or have an LSA to rent.

Oh well, if it was easy I guess that everyone could then do it? lol

But like Tom Hanks says in League of Their Own - "The hard is what makes it great."

[Frank Giger]

Okay, let's clarify some things:

1) Dale is correct on both counts. Yes, it must be a CFI rated to train for a Private Pilot ticket. And yes, finding a CFI that holds only a Sport Pilot license is about as rare as the Yeti in Kansas. I wonder if there actually are any Sport Pilot only CFI's at all. It's so rare I didn't mention it.

2) As he said, the check ride must be in an LSA compliant aircraft. Training, however, can be in anything. I had two hours in a C172, for example, and it counted towards my total. Likewise, my biannual flight reviews were in aircraft too heavy to be LSA (a decathalon and a C172).

3) Renter's insurance! It's pretty cheap and when one is flying solo they'd be covered, as at that point one is renting the aircraft. And yes, they sell it to student pilots.

[Mike B]

This thread has got me thinking about a sport license also. If I go flying, I like low and slow to see the scenery. Don't need to be anywhere in a hurry. Many, many years ago I was ready to solo in a 150 until the flight school closed its doors and took everyone's money. Unfortunately I no longer have my log book.

[DaleB]

1) Dale is correct on both counts. Yes, it must be a CFI rated to train for a Private Pilot ticket. And yes, finding a CFI that holds only a Sport Pilot license is about as rare as the Yeti in Kansas. I wonder if there actually are any Sport Pilot only CFI's at all. It's so rare I didn't mention it.

I gotta be honest... that right there may be the biggest reason I am still tempted to do it. That, and I tried landing my -12 from the right seat a coupe weeks ago. That was spooky, it was about the closest I have ever come to bending an airplane. The thought of mastering that is another reason I'm thinking of doing it. Just gotta find the time.

Hmm. I wonder... If I had a SP CFI ticket and multiple personalities, could I sign off my own flight review?

[Frank Giger]

This thread has got me thinking about a sport license also. If I go flying, I like low and slow to see the scenery. Don't need to be anywhere in a hurry. Many, many years ago I was ready to solo in a 150 until the flight school closed its doors and took everyone's money. Unfortunately I no longer have my log book.

It all comes down to the type of flying one wants to do.

For me, it's all about "fun flying;" that is to say I just want to go low and slow over field and dale, looking at cows and the sun glinting off of streams and ponds in great weather for a couple hours. I have no real desire for long cross country flights - personal aviation isn't a transportation thing for me. Heck, I'm jealous of my flying time and don't want to carry passengers; it's "me" time, so I built a single seat open cockpit biplane.

Knowing this, the skills required for a Private Pilot ticket seemed like overkill, like night flying. That skill would atrophy and wane. So I opted for the less expensive route.

Now, then, I did some training after I got my little blue plastic permit, as I felt that I needed it. So I not only got my tail wheel endorsement (which would be required for the plane I was going to build), but also spin training and an introduction to aerobatics with some aileron rolls. Turns out I'm not the aerobatic type - at some time in the future I'll pay for the full package with Greg Koontz - but that's for the precision skills one gains from it, not the fun.

Which reminds me to mention that some will tell Sport Pilots they can't do aerobatics, which just ain't so. Heck, they can even compete within the USA.

[DaleB]

Frank, I understand where you're coming from. Of course there's no reason at all that a Sport Pilot couldn't fly long cross country trips -- you'd just need to do it day VFR.

A friend of mine is a CFI, ATP, A&P/IA and all of that. Long time professional pilot and instructor. He borrowed the plane after helping me bring it back after I bought it and knocking out my flight review. Bear in mind this is an E-LSA RV-12 with no lights. He took it from Omaha down to FL - I have a picture of it on the ramp in Key West. All daytime flying, all VFR, and nothing that a Sport Pilot with proper endorsements couldn't do.

I like the ability to saddle up and fly X/C, but I'm gaining an appreciation for low & slow flying. For that I have a wood biplane under construction. Two seats, though; some days I like my solo time and others I like taking the grandkids up for rides. :)

[robert l]

Got my PPL in '74 but never got another 3rd class medical so I didn't fly for a long time. Then got an ultralight and flew some more, then off again. So, a few years ago I decided to start back, (life's to short not to do what you really love) and got my tail wheel endorsement in a Champ. Now I fly under the Sport Pilot rules and ya know, that's the only kind of flying I ever did anyway. I just want to be up there, drilling holes in the sky and yes, I like to fly low down the river and over the fields. Not quite Waldo Pepper, but still, it gives me what I need!
Bob

[Frank Giger]

Dale, my plane cruises at around 60 MPH. So everything is a long cross country! :)

The guy who owned the FlightDesign CTLS I rented for training took it all over - flying to Las Vegas, Boston, etc. But it's as fast as a plane can be and still fall under the LSA rules.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Lacking patience and self-control, I found myself back out to the grass strip airfield today. Spent several hours chatting with the good folks and even got to help a guy weigh his new plans built ultralight biplane.

To paraphrase the old rifleman's creed - "This is my Gleim Sport Pilot Training Kit - there are many just like it, but this one is MINE!"

6681

[Floatsflyer]

Lacking patience and self-control, I found myself back out to the grass strip airfield today

You have the bug, you will be fully and irrevocably sick with aviation addiction.

"Your instructor looked at your palm and he made a mighty sign,
Said what you need is Airplane Potion Number 9."

(With apologies to The Searchers and The Clovers)

[CHICAGORANDY]

I have enjoyed a true passion for all things aviation since childhood. Now that I'm retired, kids are gone and wife is a blissful 'ex' - it's an appropriate time to see that passion to its logical conclusion. I'm a late bloomer - lol - learned to scuba dive in my 50's, same for motorcycles. So flying? If not now? When? And sport pilot seems a perfect fit to my realistic needs...for now at least.

[Floatsflyer]

I have enjoyed a true passion for all things aviation since childhood. Now that I'm retired, kids are gone and wife is a blissful 'ex' - it's an appropriate time to see that passion to its logical conclusion.

Reminds me of a similar story. A priest, a minister and a rabbi are fishing on a boat. While lazily passing the time on a beautiful summers day they get into a discussion about when does life begin.

The priest says, life begins at the moment of conception.

No, no, no, says the minister, life begins when the child is born.

My learned friends, says the rabbi, I'm afraid you are both wrong. Life begins when the kids leave and the dog dies!

[Bill Berson]

You are still kind of a "virgin" until solo. When landings start to get good and easy be sure to start wearing older shirts.

[CHICAGORANDY]

LOL - Yes, I am aware of the 'tradition' of wearing apparel mutilation - lol. Watched it last weekend in fact - they let the just-soloed pilot's wife do the honors with some pinking shears.

I view the Sport Pilot license in the same way as I viewed my first Scuba certification and my Class M note on my Driver's License. They were both 'licenses' to now go out and learn how to..... dive, ride a cycle and hopefully soon enough I'll be 'licensed' to get up there and learn how to fly a Light Sport airplane. I have NO problem leaving my ego in the car when I enter a pursuit as a student.

[Arrius]

Congratulations Randy, flying is an amazing feeling. Flying the plane yourself is even more amazing. Glad you liked it, my training lessons will be over soon and I am hoping to get to experience it myself.

[Eric Cernjar]

Just wanted to add a 'congrats', I'm excited for you Randy and look forward to hearing about your journey!

[CHICAGORANDY]

THANKS - I bought the Gleim Sport Pilot kit last Saturday and am slowly working my way thru it at home - Just finished the Unit on Sectional Charts - Ay Caramba! - I felt like a monkey staring at a Rubik's Cube - lol

[steve]

Like back in school, don't look at that 3" thick algebra textbook. Don't even acknowledge it's very existence. Just learn Chapter 1. Then learn Chapter 2, etc, etc. It's not a race. Then again, algebra was more difficult than the private pilot course. And you'll probably know or be familiar with much of the material.

[Floatsflyer]

Just finished the Unit on Sectional Charts - Ay Caramba! - I felt like a monkey staring at a Rubik's Cube - lol

Can be overwhelming so one day at a time, it's not a race and no one is timing you. Learn how to map read really well and do dead reckoning(do they still teach this in ground school?) on those sectionals. You'll be glad you did when your digital Nav gadgets crap out one day.

[CHICAGORANDY]

My 'process' involves making good use of the Gleim online Study and Test programs, with the addition of many youtube vids on each topic. Sometimes the visual descriptions work better than the printed word, like learning anything new I reckon. Economic realities have me 'teaching' myself to pass the FAA Knowledge Test rather than renting a CFI to do so and I accept the extra challenges that choice represents.

I'm learning to adopt the Tom Hanks motto from the movie League of Their Own - " It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great."

[robert l]

Randy, I also learn better if I can "See" it done. When I read stuff, I kinda get the blind stares and then have no idea what I just read.
Bob

[CHICAGORANDY]

I confess that at 68, studying takes a lot more concentration than I seem to recall it taking in my youth - and one needs more bio breaks - lol

[Bill Greenwood]

If you can it good to fly along with the ground study. One big consideration is that you have a couple of months before winter weather may be a problem, especially if you have to travel to the airstrip. Book learning can teach a lot of things but there's no subsitrute for flying unless it was a specific simulator. And the best way to learn, is to fly often, say 2 times week.. if you can If you fly once every two weeks it takes longer and you may not be as good. Folks used to solo C150 or Piper 140, C172 in 10 or 12 hours when I was learing. Now some take 25 hours and I think stringing out the lessons is one reason, along with lack of competition among flight schools. Some CFIs claim it is due to more complex airspace etc, but that;s not logical because a student doesnt solo in complex airspace. A solo today, if the plane is the same, is just like it was for me, You take the 172 or whatever you have already done 40 landings in and fly it around the pattern at the same airport for 3 more landings. Then you move on to learning the next like cross country.

[CHICAGORANDY]

My plan is for flight training lessons with my CFI 2-3 times a week. At the moment all my discretionary monies for this month went to buying that Discovery Flight two weeks ago and the Gleim Sport Pilot kit last week. I am anticipating a notable monthly boost once a prior long-term arrangement ends by Christmas. Then I can apply for financing flight training.

Like most 'non-vital' recreational hobby endeavors, the devil is in the details and the details are all about money. Why oh why wasn't I born rich instead of so good lookin'? - LOL

For now pursuing the home-study course and then taking AND PASSING the FAA Knowledge Test will have to suffice to fill my aviation desires. Fortunately there is more than enough reading material and youtube vids to keep my mind active in the interim. I did note that I qualify for a $10 discount off the $150 test fee by being an EAA member, which is nice.

[Bill Berson]

If you could somehow get a part time job at the airport flight center/repair shop the lessons can be free. Was for me. (43 years ago).
Some flight clubs have reduced rates.

[CHICAGORANDY]

I'm old and semi-retired - I'd get another part-time job to pay for my two addictions, eating daily and living indoors. But honestly NOT for a hobby.

[Floatsflyer]

If you could somehow get a part time job at the airport flight center/repair shop the lessons can be free. Was for me. (43 years ago).

43 years ago aviation fuel was much, much cheaper than car gas.

The days of leaning on the airport fence and hoping for a ride or gassing up planes in exchange for lessons, well, that's a pastoral Norman Rockwell image, not a current anything rooted in reality...unfortunately. And besides, there are no fences, just gates with coded entrances.

[malexander]

Deleted post

[CHICAGORANDY]

The flight school I'm going to use has two dandy Evektor Sports for Sport Pilot Training. The owner therefore has near a quarter of a million dollars invested in airplanes. They rent in 10 hr block for $105 per, which is actually pretty reasonable for this area and the CFI is $40 per. I have mentioned before that there are darn few LSA airplanes for training in this wilderness area called Metro Chicagoland. It therefore becomes a seller's market.

And as always my standard disclaimer for life - Stuff doesn't cost too much, I just can't always afford it .

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, do you find my/our suggestions just "lip service" and prefer that we drop them and you do it on your own? Its your topic, I/we can do it however you want. And no, I dont know the number of the next lottery winner. Too bad you couldnt have put a tip jar on the tram with a sign For Flight Lessons, for all the good volunteer work you did and with a smile on your face no matter how many people asks for directions.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Not at all Bill, as a TOTAL newcomer to the actual pursuit of flight, I welcome and appreciate all suggestions. Perhaps I'm approaching the process backwards? Doing it from a practical standpoint, I'd have been better off waiting till all the money was in the bank before I even took a Discover Flight, and surely before I started a ground school program at home. But I'm too old to have 'patience' and a long-term view on life choices. Impulse, the fates and a lack of spending self-control brought me to this point, and they'll just have to carry me forward - lol

I WILL pass the knowledge test in early October, and I WILL have started flight training by 2018, weather permitting..... Much sooner if that Lottery/Casino win thing comes thru - :)

[Bill Greenwood]

You are doing just fine, I was responding to Maladexters complaint about tightwads and lip service, and wanted to make sure to see it your way.And, no dont wait on anything do it best you can.

[Floatsflyer]

Bill, Bill, Bill, please do some "GOOD lip service" for the OP of the thread "Inspirational Fly By"(just below this one). Here's your place in the sun on the Forum to do something of great value for this OP and yourself. Please respond to him, it's the kind and courteous thing to do.

[Cary]

I'm glad to see you're doing something about flying instead of just talking about it each annual OSH week. ;)

Here's a little story to encourage you: Vic was an acquaintance about 25 years ago, a professor emeritus who'd retired from the University at age 70. We first met at a Faculty Wives dinner club, back when I was teaching at the University. I saw his wife Katy monthly at a non-profit board meeting, and I'd run into him at various social events (small town). I was chairing the local airport board and did a dog & pony slide show about the airport for the local service clubs (Lions, Rotary, etc.). After one of my presentations, he called me and asked if I could teach him to fly. At the time, I had a couple students, but instructing was only a part-time passion, not my job. I told him that I just didn't have the time, but I recommended one of the other instructors, and I told him that I'd be happy to answer any questions he had from time to time.

The next time I heard from Vic, he had just soloed, and he was as elated as a junior high kid after his first kiss! I think we were on the phone for half an hour, as I mostly listened to him relate his experience. To make a long story short, Vic would call whenever he ran into a plateau that was troubling him (which happens often in flight training). We'd talk, he'd thank me, and then one day he called to say that his checkride was coming up, and he was nervous. So we talked about prepping for that, and then a week later he called to say he'd passed his checkride--and to thank me for all my encouragement.

Vic flew for another couple of years. Then one day Katy told me that Vic had been diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's, and that he'd handed her his drivers license and his pilots license--and I cried with her. But for those 2 years, Vic had enjoyed doing what those of us who've been flying most of our lives enjoy.

Like you've said several times in this thread, if not now, when? I'm glad that your "when" is now. :thumbsup:

Cary

[CHICAGORANDY]

Thanks!

[Bill Berson]

Can you wear a name tag on the tram? Good looking 68 year old doesn't narrow it down much.

[CHICAGORANDY]

I always do - I'm told I most resemble Wilford Brimley - lol - this year's nametag looked like this:

6696

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, how is is going with you Gleim course? Good luck, if you want to post the order of chapters. You said sectionals, surprised that would be first.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Hi Bill, thanks for asking.

I have completed the first go-through of the FAA Knowledge Test book and have taken and passed over a dozen sample online tests. Highest grade so far has been a 98. Never a grade below 85. I am now in the process of re-reading the materials with emphasis on the areas where I know I still need practice and more understanding. Decoding weather reports, sectional charts and CG-load-balance-landing/takeoff distance calculations. Also continuing practice with my manual E6B. I 'think' I'll likely opt for a Sporty's or CX-2 electronic one for the written test and future formal flight training.

[DaleB]

Although it's tempting to go all out, don't over-spend on the E6B (electronic or otherwise). Chances are you'll use it right up until your check ride, then it's ballast until you decide to leave it at home.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Why is that Dale? Not a critique, honest ignorance on my part, and a sincere desire to learn. Is that most fliers use pilotage/landmarks rather than route planning/wind adjustments? Have the modern glass panels, GPS, I-Pad apps etc. made these calculators obsolete/redundant?

[robert l]

I still have my E6B from 1973, the one that has the scroll knobs. Was going to give it to my much younger flying friend when he got his PPL but he said, I can't take that, it's an antique, you need to hang on to it. Little does he know, he will get it as a keep sake when I pass on. LOL. Now days, for the kind of flying I do, my ipad and ForeFlight are plenty !
Bob

[DaleB]

Why is that Dale? Not a critique, honest ignorance on my part, and a sincere desire to learn. Is that most fliers use pilotage/landmarks rather than route planning/wind adjustments? Have the modern glass panels, GPS, I-Pad apps etc. made these calculators obsolete/redundant?
The short answer to your question is: Yes.

Of course there is absolutely no reason you can't continue to fly with paper charts and pre-electronic age tools, but... most of us don't. Once you're done with flight training, there are much better, faster and easier tools to use than an E6B for pretty much any task. Your phone or tablet can carry an app that will do all of your flight planning and W&B calculations, as well as moving map navigation... so you won't need paper charts either.

You can still use pilotage and landmarks, and in fact you should do so rather than just blindly following the magenta line on the GPS. I got tired of having to order paper charts, so I got a tablet that always has ALL of the sectionals and AFDs on it, current and up to date. Of course it has an internal GPS receiver as well, so it takes a lot of the work out of finding your position on the chart. :)

[robert l]

I like to carry an external power source even if I'm only flying local, which is mostly what I do. But especially going somewhere on an extended flight. I took two with me when my flying buddy and I flew to Sun N Fun even though it was only going to be a 4 1/2 hr flight. We were using the planes GPS, an ipad with ForeFlight and a back up ipad with ForeFlight and two power sources just to be on the safe side. We did end up having to detour for weather though. I have no affiliation with any brand but the ones I use have15000 mA with an input of 5V 2.0 A Max. I don't understand all that but it's supposed to be good.
Bob

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, I also made a 98 on my private pilot written ,missed one silly question night lighting, still bugs me and virtually never had to use it. I wouldnt spend a penny on an electronic E6B, the manual one is easy and simple to use. I was given the Sportys one as part of a review course once and never used it again. Dont know how much it cost but spend that on a fight lesson. Sounds like you are doing great and really going to it. I may be the most old fashioned pilot on this forum, but Ive flown all over the U S part of Canada and the Bahamas and I use charts. Those old fashioned charts have probably taken me to Osh more than most people on the forum and in four dffeeent aiplanes. I navigate by all methods, pilotage is like you drive a Harley, you go to the corner and turn left and go till find Hooters. Thus in the plane if you are flying and dont see the big lake down there, you are proabaly not at Chicago. Most of my navigation is a form of dead reconing, that is if you leave Denver and fly 66degrees at 200 knots for 4 hours you should be at Osh. An I use vor/dme also, a lot. Having electronic postion maps or GPS is a good short cut, but dont be nuts. Once coming from New Orleans to Houston Hobby I put Hobb in the magic box and got something like 1200 miles since that was Hobbs New Mexico. And the sectionals have a lot of useful and interesting details. My friend has a magic box too, says hes got all the charts but mostly I cant read them in real light. Maybe he can. I probably spend $40 on charts to go to Osh every year.

[Bill Greenwood]

Randy, by knowing all 3 methods of navigation you have a 6th sense, sort of like a defensive back in football as to what play or route he may face next.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Thanks for advice guys - I do believe I will save the electronic E6B money and divert it to instructor time instead.

[DaleB]

Good call. You won't be sorry.

[Cary]

I still keep my aluminum pocket-sized E6b that I bought almost 45 years ago, more as a keepsake than anything. Once in a blue moon I'll take it out and see if I can still do something on it, but I hardly ever actually use it. I fly a 180hp 1963 P172D with a C/S prop, which is just a different model of 172 that flies a tiny bit faster than most other 172s. Just so that you can get a feel for what the "real world" of GA flying is, here's what I do.

I flight plan using 115 knots (no wind), which is pretty close. For loose planning purposes, I assume a 10 knot tailwind eastbound and a 10 knot headwind westbound. So for instance, if I'm flying east and I have 300 nautical miles to my first stop, I divide that by 125 knots and figure it'll take me about 2 + 25. If I'm flying that leg west, then it's at 105 knots for 2 + 50. Foreflight will give me a slightly closer figure when I actually do my flight plan, because that app takes into account the forecast winds. But winds are still a forecast, and in reality it's not much closer, unless the winds are much stronger than my assumed 10 knots.

I rarely do a weight & balance, because I seldom fly with the seats full. If I do have the seats full, I know I can only have half tanks to account for the 4th person; otherwise, like every other 172, it's really a 3 person airplane. Weight is the primary issue with a 172; if the weight is under gross, the airplane will be balanced (that is not necessarily true of other airplanes). My airplane's tanks hold 52 gallons, so half is 26 gallons x 6 lbs/gallon or 156 lbs. That means that the 4th person has to be a smallish person, assuming that the other 3 are in the 180-190 lb range. When I'm carrying 4, I also take out my usual carry-ons, because they're unnecessary for local sight-seeing flights.

Most of my flights east of the Rockies are "direct-to", whether VFR or IFR. It's easier with a GPS, and that's what ATC expects most of the time. But I also keep track of my position with pilotage and the VORs and ADF (that really shows my age, right?). GPS signals can be interrupted, so it's very important to use some sort of non-GPS backup--I have personally experienced GPS outages of the GPS system, not my airplane's equipment. If I'm flying west of the Rockies, depending on routing, it's either all pilotage (aim the airplane toward that pass, make sure there's enough altitude to clear it safely, etc.) or by following the airways. Typically if I'm on airways, I'll program each VOR as a waypoint on the GPS in addition to using the VOR side of the box. Redundancy is the name of the game, and that's a safety issue.

I no longer carry paper charts, other than the chart put out by the Colorado Department of Aeronautics, which has suggested pass routings through the mountains along with a bunch of other useful information. I use Foreflight on an iPad Mini 4, and my primary backup is Foreflight on my older Mini, with a second backup being Foreflight on my iPhone SE. Although GPS signals can be compromised, the maps of Foreflight are still usable if the GPS function stops, so although it took several months for me to be comfortable with just electronic charts during which time I had both paper and electronic, after 4+ years of using them, I am very comfortable now. I'm not computer savvy enough to try to learn more than one aviation app, although I have acquaintances who have more than one on their iPads or Android devices (Foreflight only works on iPads and iPhones).

As for fuel planning, if I'm going anywhere non-local, I know that my airplane burns 9.8 gph consistently, so I plan on 10 gph. I always plan on landing with an hour remaining. I also have a good fuel flow totalizer gauge, so I can confirm whether my fuel burn is correct, but mostly I use time from take off to landing and 10 gph. That makes it easy to calculate. For instance, on my hypothetical 300 nm flight leg above, I know that as long as the winds aren't in excess of 10 knots westbound, 30 gallons will get me there.

Weather is always the biggest planning issue. While you remain a VFR-only pilot, you will want to make sure that there aren't any weather issues in addition to wind. I'm lucky, because I live in a part of the country that is blessed with sunny days most of the time, with clouds that are much higher than I care to fly. You're in a less amiable area, so you'll need to be more careful. Although once you're certificated, you can legally fly in minimum VFR conditions, I don't advise that, ever. 3 miles of visibility, for instance, isn't much at all, and it can drop to much less than that very quickly. A raggedy 2000' ceiling can become much less than that very quickly. Set your personal minimums much higher than the legal minimums. Be a fair weather pilot--it'll keep you safe.

Spend time learning weather from several sources. It's the single most important tool any pilot can have in his/her toolbox, the ability to understand weather. Attend seminars, read books, take online quizzes--increase your knowledge as much as you can. IMHO, the very best weather text is Bob Buck's Weather Flying, which was originally written by Bob Buck and is now updated and modernized by his son, Bob Buck Jr.

Finally, always let someone know what you're doing and where you're going. That means either file a flight plan (don't forget to close it!) or use flight following. I rarely file a VFR flight plan, but except for strictly local flights, I always use flight following or file IFR.

Learning to fly is a whole lot of work, but the rewards are tremendous.

Cary